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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2017 9:27:21 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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DEI: Here there be KB, or a goodly portion of it.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2017 10:15:21 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Allied troops move so darn fast on the road network in China...make sure you take advantage of it. By grabbing key road networks you can further cause supply loss as the Japanese attempt to force supplies to everywhere. Kind of what you are doing near LangSon I suspect -- why else not put a unit in the jungle south to completely cut supply line to Vietnam? Unless you don't have any more units there.

Can you account for the Japanese Tank Divisions still?

Foochow is a devilishly tricky base to defend as it is impossible (?) to have a KB strike the landings and not the deathstar. Taking Foochow will really open up a lot of Japan's secrets -- plane r&d and shipping and troop concentrations.

We don't know what Japan's Manchuko garrison is like...is there movement there? Is the line against the Soviets held in strength or abandoned back to the static forts?

The question, and I don't know the answer, is how much of Japan's Army is protecting the Kuriles/Marianas, SRA, Manchuko and Indochina?

As a JFB, I would look at this attack most likely as the Allies going big to supply up China a few months early, and would think this is the major vector of attack allowing me to strip Kuriles/Marianas pretty heavily -- IF I hadn't already done that with the battle of Luzon.

How John takes it, with the KB off Oz in three separate task forces, is beyond me.

Where are the shore bombardments....Formosa's runways should all be smoking ruins with about 500-1000 planes I guess.

Watch the troop and plane levels on Formosa carefully...static to increase and he has plentiful supplies there...reduction and he realizes it is a POW camp or low on supplies. If he has a a couple of hundred thousand supply there it could be painful for you in the long run when you aren't careful.






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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2017 11:47:45 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Good thinking with the Airborne operation. Link up to them, secure your west flank and it looks like you might be able to roll up the east coast.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 2:39:19 AM   
Canoerebel


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Peep Show: Conceived and planned nine months ago, involving three units prepping for Foochow (93rd Div., 8th Army HQ, and VII Amphibious HQ), the operation succeeds in its first effort to take what was really it's only target.

Now the rest of the army, including armor and infantry prepping mainly for Formosa bases, will come ashore and spread out. Two objectives: (1) threaten Tsinkiang and Amoy, and (2) try to create dismay and disarray for the enemy in China, and for John as he tries to get a handle on what's going on.






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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 2:51:16 AM   
Canoerebel


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DEI: KB is divided into four elements, spread from Singers to near Timor. I believe John will consolidate his carrier TFs and strike somewhere soon.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 4:19:45 AM   
witpqs


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Status: offline 		Woah - he is way far south while you are way far north!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 7:29:03 AM   
Encircled


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Status: offline 		Again using "Shermans march to the sea", John is like Hood, if Hood had decided to march to Nashville via Texas, Arizona and Arkansas.

Is it possible for him to be any further out of position?

I know that he's going for VPs or cutting supply lines, but the Allies are ashore in CHINA! IN STRENGTH!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 10:09:32 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Even with home port set to Foochow...the local commanders may opt to avoid combat by sending them to the closest decent sized port...depending upon the threat settings if Foochow is threatened with strong surface fleets or aerial threats. Direct absolute might overcome this.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 10:40:28 AM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Is it possible for him to be any further out of position?
I don't believe John thinks he is out of position. Don't want to speak for CR but the assumption for a year was that eventually the Allies would do something Japan would HAVE to react to with the KB. There is a fair chance the KB is never going to engage and the keys will be turned over during the surrender in Tokyo bay

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 12:04:30 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		John is playing to maximize his Victory Points. That's what he should be doing, because that's at the heart of the game. He's doing what I'm doing - playing the game, playing the opponent, and realizing this is no simulation.

Some players do consider AE a simulation (and it could be, to a degree, with opponents who mutually assented to play it that way). But not here. This is a Three Dimensional Chess on Steroids.

At times in the past, John has prided himself on playing "historically" - carrier divisions and all that - sniffing dismissively while the Allies use a Death Star. The absence of a Banzai mentality and the Bushido Code ethic, even while the Allies moved through Luzon and around Formosa, reveal the truth: this is a game. And it's great fun.


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 12:39:53 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

John is playing to maximize his Victory Points.



Is he? I can think of at least three other reasons why the KB is in the SRA.

Do I gather from your posts that Formosa is losing her fighters?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 1:05:32 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		There are lots of reasons KB can be of good use in the DEI, no doubt. But this is no simulation, and John is indeed working hard on the Victory Point angle of the game (I suspect at the urging in tutelage of his readers).

In the war, the Allies don't move on Luzon or Formosa without triggering a banzai attack.

He's playing the game the way it was meant to be played. The VP's are there to give Japan a fighting chance. And it's working as designed in this game.

Speaking of which, the Allies are now within 100 points of Japan. There's a chance I'll pull ahead by the end of the month.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 1:07:48 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
...
Do I gather from your posts that Formosa is losing her fighters?


That seems to be so early on, but surely he's only committed a fraction of what he has available to the contest.

Based on three or four days of returns, however, I'm a bit optimistic that the Allies can win the air war over Formosa over the coming weeks and months. Foochow and any other bases should help in that regard. And Orchid Island is growing slowly, as about 1.26 (John hasn't targeted it lately given all the other things going on).

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 1:10:23 PM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

...playing "historically"...


He is playing a "historically what if". The Bushido Code was perverted from "courage in the face of death" into "anxious to die". Misguided officers that misused a tradition. Historically what if.... The Emperor and influential others could have clarified "The Way of the Warrior".




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< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 5/18/2017 1:11:42 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 1:15:20 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		Yup, that's a big part of the game. It's a lot of "what ifs."

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 5:41:43 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Peep Show: No enemy interference today, as many more troops land. The combat units are spreading out. The engineers are making great progress on the airfield.

Tough fighter clashes over Formosa today, though only modest numbers involved, with the Allies coming out slightly ahead. The numbers themselves don't seem to be encouraging, yet I still feel pretty good about the situation overall. John will have a hard time prevailing if Formosa is surrounded by big Allied airfields in close proximity, and if his airfields are subject to bombardment by powerful TFs. We're just beginning the campaign, but I'm encouraged at this early date.






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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 5:43:46 PM   
DW

 

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Status: offline 		How much time do you think you have before you're forced to move supply forward again and what are your plans (routing and such) for when the time comes?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 5:50:08 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		I have enough supply in the Philippines to maintain the current pace of operations for at least another month. I probably have enough to serve in the Foochow sector for longer than that, because I don't expect to initiate a bombing campaign from that airfield until it's a level 7, 8, or 9.

I have supply pre-position all over the place, so that I can bring it in from a variety of directions. I do have a specific plan that I hope to implement to maximize what will come in (in terms of supply, fuel and reinforcements) and what will go out (mainly xAKs and xAPs needed back at Pearl and the West Coast to handle logistics going forward).

At the moment, I'm weighted far too heavily forward. Too much of the merchant marine is in the combat zone. I'll address that once Peep Show is complete, and that might only be a week or so from now.

All of this is somewhat dependent on the location(s) of John's carrier TFs. But I plan to use my carriers no matter what, so it's unlikely that he'll commit his in opposition. He's more likely to take the opportunity to move into the Formosa waters while DS is away, bombarding bases and doing whatever he can to cause trouble.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 5:54:11 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		I think John's going to have to commit KB if he really wants a shot at saving Formosa. If KB continues it's far-flung adventures, I should be able to pound Formosa into submission. It'll take awhile, but I think the result will be essentially inevitable.

John's done nothing to impede or slow Peep Show. Consequently, I'm way ahead of schedule on things I've been way ahead of schedule on. With the additional supply and reinforcements inbound, plus the units already in theater completing their prep percentages, the Formosa invasion will definitely take place within a month.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 5:59:10 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		I still think you should have trashed his runways with ships...a few AKEs at Foochow, supply well spent.

But you have done incredibly well, so I figure you know best.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 6:06:00 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Ya gotta read carefully or you'll miss things. I posted just up above about the plan to hit his Formosa airfields when DS egresses towards Luzon.

I haven't done it already, only because I may need to save the bombardments for shore action at Amoy or Tsinkiang. Unlikely, but possible.

As for bringing AKEs, those couldn't replenish the BBs at Foochow, so I'd be expending a lot of energy and taking some risk for not much return.

Suppressing John's airfields is a priority. The biggest step forward is taking and building big bases on the nearby China coast. The second will be bombarding. The third is effective fighter sweeps and bombing raids.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 6:11:12 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Ya gotta read carefully or you'll miss things. I posted just up above about the plan to hit his Formosa airfields when DS egresses towards Luzon.

I haven't done it already, only because I may need to save the bombardments for shore action at Amoy or Tsinkiang. Unlikely, but possible.

As for bringing AKEs, those couldn't replenish the BBs at Foochow, so I'd be expending a lot of energy and taking some risk for not much return.

Suppressing John's airfields is a priority. The biggest step forward is taking and building big bases on the nearby China coast. The second will be bombarding. The third is effective fighter sweeps and bombing raids.


Nope, I read it.

I would be bombarding with heavy cruisers, light cruisers and destroyers. Wasn't clear. Wherever I want to sweep, would see a bombardment that night...some of those bases have nowhere for the planes to go once damaged, but to the scrapyard.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 6:17:07 PM   
jwolf

 

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Status: offline 		At some point will you need to suspend offensive expansion for, say, a month while you use your carriers to escort a massive shipment of supplies and fuel to the PI?

Second question: in the last map, you mentioned that you are a bit worried that supply from Foochow might trickle through the Chinese wilderness to some of the Chinese units to the north. Hypothetically, if that really happened, wouldn't it be mostly good news? Ultimately, isn't that what you want?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 6:25:45 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

There are lots of reasons KB can be of good use in the DEI, no doubt. But this is no simulation, and John is indeed working hard on the Victory Point angle of the game (I suspect at the urging in tutelage of his readers).

In the war, the Allies don't move on Luzon or Formosa without triggering a banzai attack.

He's playing the game the way it was meant to be played. The VP's are there to give Japan a fighting chance. And it's working as designed in this game.

Speaking of which, the Allies are now within 100 points of Japan. There's a chance I'll pull ahead by the end of the month.

I get that. I just wonder if he can harvest enough VP down there while your forces are near poised to start bringing in loads of VP. Of course he had a goodly VP lead to hang onto as opposed to coming back from a deficit.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 6:27:10 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf
Second question: in the last map, you mentioned that you are a bit worried that supply from Foochow might trickle through the Chinese wilderness to some of the Chinese units to the north. Hypothetically, if that really happened, wouldn't it be mostly good news? Ultimately, isn't that what you want?


To be avoided at all costs, it would be an unending supply drain with huge leakage.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 6:31:40 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

7/29/44

Peep Show: No enemy interference today, as many more troops land. The combat units are spreading out. The engineers are making great progress on the airfield.

Tough fighter clashes over Formosa today, though only modest numbers involved, with the Allies coming out slightly ahead. The numbers themselves don't seem to be encouraging, yet I still feel pretty good about the situation overall. John will have a hard time prevailing if Formosa is surrounded by big Allied airfields in close proximity, and if his airfields are subject to bombardment by powerful TFs. We're just beginning the campaign, but I'm encouraged at this early date.






I agree that Ningpo is a bit too far. Better to keep your perimeter compact while DS heads off on the LOC revival mission.

I like the arc from Swatow to Foochow as a defensible enclave, but I don't know how much IJA John has in China. I hope your SIGINT and record keeping has the location of his major LCUs on the continent pegged.

My biggest concern would be that 100K supply. It sounds like a lot but combat can eat that in a week. I hope your supply flow can continue with DS gone back to fetch more.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 6:49:23 PM   
Canoerebel


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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		From a military standpoint, I'm in a strong position to prosecute the war. Very strong.

From a gaming, victory point standpoint, I'm within 100 points of John, now. So we're basically even. John held the lead long enough that I'll have to work to achieve the 2:1 auto-victory ratio, but the empire is kinda broken apart and susceptible to Allied attacks.

Logistics and supply are key now. As soon as Peep Show positions (Amoy to Foochow) are secure, I'll detach Death Star to escort in more supply and reinforcement TFs. At the same time, or perhaps as a separate mission, DS will escort empty xAKs and xAPs to safety. I might sever the two parts just to minimize the length of any one DS absence.

Lowpe, the only reason I haven't used my combat TFs to bombard to this point is that I don't know what John might have in the way of combat ships. I don't want my combat TFs neutered. Most of my TFs will bombard on the way home, which will be sufficient under the plan currently in effect.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 6:55:28 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I agree that Ningpo is a bit too far. Better to keep your perimeter compact while DS heads off on the LOC revival mission.


Perhaps this is deception on CR's part? Perhaps the real target is Wusih or Tungchow on the river north of Shanghai? Chefoo, perhaps deep in the Yellow Sea? The mind boggles!

The planning, execution, and timing of Foochow has simply been brilliant, I am awaiting eagerly the next operation.

Where is the Japanese Army in all this? All the artillery and tank regiments? Now, if Japan wants to attempt to close the beachhead, they will need over 3x the troops plus tons of supply. If they try to contain it., well there are a ton of hexes they will have to occupy in some force. If the concede it, well then how much of the Japanese Army are basically POWs, with a chance of fleshing out Chinese troops for a march to Manchuko?

So many options here...I would like to see a picture of the Yellow sea...my imagination is running away.


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 6:58:38 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Lowpe, the only reason I haven't used my combat TFs to bombard to this point is that I don't know what John might have in the way of combat ships. I don't want my combat TFs neutered. Most of my TFs will bombard on the way home, which will be sufficient under the plan currently in effect.


You are going easy on him, I knows it!

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Post #: 10469
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/18/2017 7:03:47 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Status: offline 		Supply is the limiting factor. There are lots of options further up the Yellow Sea, but I scrubbed them as the wild-eyed fancies of somebody who doesn't understand the limitations of supply and logistics.

For that very reason, Peep Show is mainly oriented towards gaining good airfields and throwing a scare or panic into John, if he's so inclined. Of late it's also become about a comprehensive and complimentary way of taking on Formosa. These things require the amount of supply I currently have on hand. Future operations - the invasion of Formosa and a sustained strategic bombing campaign - will require additional supply.

Based upon what I've gleaned from other AARs and from you guys, strategic bombing is the most efficient way of scoring a lot of points. So I'll lean towards utilizing supply for that mission as opposed to fighting forward. Once supply gets pushed all the way to China, it needs to be conserved for bombing rather than trying to liberate China. (That said, I do want to push things a bit to keep John worried and to see what might develop.)

Another important aspect of the Allied endgame is to attend to important bases in the rear - Singapore, Port Moresby, Batavia, Soerabaja, Luganville and possibly Rabaul. Those operations are more efficient since they are closer to my main supply hubs. I have troops prepping for them (or already prepped). There will come a day, far in the future, when I'll detach Death Star or a representative percentage of it to attend to a series of amphibious ops in the DEI and SWPac. This will likely take place after the Formosa campaign (sooner if KB is beaten up).

Lots of fighting to come, but I have know where I want to go and when.

(in reply to Lowpe)
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