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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/12/2017 8:52:43 AM   
morejeffs

 

Posts: 249
Joined: 4/24/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't think Korea is part of Manchuria for garrison purposes.

quote:

I don't think Korea is part of Manchuria for garrison purposes.


My bad!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11311
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/12/2017 12:51:21 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		What makes you think Korea is not part of the Manchuria garrison? The mod? Is it even moddable?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11312
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/12/2017 3:32:28 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut
Screw that man, invade the Home Islands and make the match more interesting :)


What's about to transpire in the game should make good reading; perhaps even compelling reading, if you're following John's AAR.

Given the current state of the game, he should be anticipating a looming Allied invasion of the Home Islands or close by. He's already missed several chances to attack with massed arms (KB, LBA and combat ships), but he likely assumes that he's about to get bigger and better chances when the Allied ship hordes approach Japan or Shanghai.

I think that's the way he's configuring his defenses but the game is about the change drastically. The weight of Allied amphibious operations will switch to the DEI while Death Star will soon patrol the Formosa region to protect it as a platform for the strategic bombing campaign.

It is likely that I'll engage in a large overland (mostly) campaign for the Ningpo/Shanghai sector, seeking a few good airfields closer to Japan than are Foochow and Formosa.

And there will probably come a day when I'll consider another invasion - perhaps Korea or Sikhalin Island or Hokkaido.

But this is one of the few times where I've experienced a plan surviving contact with the enemy. It looks like I had just enough experience under my belt to conceive, organize and implement a plan that can succeed militarily and from a gaming (victory point) standpoint.




Don't loose sight of what is all around you when focusing only on what is in front of you.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 7/12/2017 3:33:07 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11313
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/12/2017 4:37:58 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline 		MakeeLearn: you replaced the Indifferent by the Ugly. Bad form.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 11314
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/12/2017 4:39:01 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't think Korea is part of Manchuria for garrison purposes.


It is, actually.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11315
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/12/2017 5:03:23 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't think Korea is part of Manchuria for garrison purposes.


It is, actually.

But the amount of AV traditionally in Korea Army is much less than further north in Manchuria, unless John has started moving AV around. I am not sure if there are any HR on crossing borders between the two. Expensive in PP if there is such a rule.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 11316
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/12/2017 5:17:03 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't think Korea is part of Manchuria for garrison purposes.


It is, actually.

But the amount of AV traditionally in Korea Army is much less than further north in Manchuria, unless John has started moving AV around. I am not sure if there are any HR on crossing borders between the two. Expensive in PP if there is such a rule.


I don't think anyone has such a rule.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 11317
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/12/2017 6:32:13 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		How many games have been AAR'ed to the "end date" and how many of those have included nukes?

Do it man. Nuke Tokyo when the time comes.

Drop that Grandmother of the Mother of All Bombs.

If not for anything else, but to see what it really does "in game" :D


_____________________________


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 11318
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/12/2017 7:34:31 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

How many games have been AAR'ed to the "end date" and how many of those have included nukes?

Do it man. Nuke Tokyo when the time comes.

Drop that Grandmother of the Mother of All Bombs.

If not for anything else, but to see what it really does "in game" :D



There have been a few....most players are disappointed with the results from dropping the nuke.

(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 11319
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/12/2017 7:37:47 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		A heavy raid by B29s does more damage, I've found.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 11320
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/12/2017 11:22:19 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

MakeeLearn: you replaced the Indifferent by the Ugly. Bad form.



‘Il Buono, il Brutto e il Cattivo’: The Good, the Ugly and the Bad,




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 11321
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 12:03:31 AM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		"Il Buono, il Brutto e il Cattivo" Is Greyjoy back?

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 7/13/2017 12:04:13 AM >

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 11322
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 8:51:11 AM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		Up there as one of the greatest films ever, with a stunning score.

Its one of those films that I always watch when its on.



_____________________________


(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 11323
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 9:46:35 AM   
1275psi

 

Posts: 7979
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline 		Greatest gunfight eva!!!!!!




Oh, and yes, from experience, the A bomb is very, very overrated.......

_____________________________

big seas, fast ships, life tastes better with salt

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 11324
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 2:18:50 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		The soundtrack is one of my favorites. I think these are my favorites: The Good the Bad and the Ugly, Gettysburg, Doctor Zhivago, The Lord of the Rings, The Sound of Music, Inception and Interstellar.

(in reply to 1275psi)
Post #: 11325
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 2:29:18 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Less movies and more bombing, please!

I liked the the Lord of the Rings soundtrack from the Ralph Bakshi (?) animated movie from the late 70s.

Found it for you... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0DvOMdQFBE&list=PLp_dvpr_Bjqs81NeJZQQvo70ogL7MVywW

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/13/2017 2:33:14 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11326
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 2:38:20 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Over the past few months, John's enthusiasm has ebbed and flowed with the changing tides of fortune in the game.

The last really good moment he had was sinking four small carriers near Luganville perhaps about 10 weeks ago. Prior to that it was his counterinvasion of Celebes in late winter. In both cases, I contended that his successes were outweighed by the costs incurred, an argument I think was confirmed. For instance, when KB was in SoPac sinking those carriers, Death Star was handling the invasion of Coastal China. The absence of KB made my job easier and probably resulted in far less points lost than would've been the case had John contested the China expedition.

Going back to before China, on the occasion that Death Star first approached Formosa, John alerted me via email that I'd regret coming any further. Since then, DS has circumnavigated Formosa many times without Japan doing anything about it.

More recently, when our House Rule prohibiting night bombing expired on August 15, 1944, John wrote that "now the gloves come off." But nothing happened.

He got pretty excited about his counteroffensive in coastal China. Turn-flipping increased for the first time since the Celebes operation. He would email requesting turns as he was "interested in seeing developments." He referred to his overall strategy as an "Operation Market Garden." He thought he had a decent part of the Allied army bottled up and in a position to be destroyed. None of that happened.

He has conserved Victory Points by keeping KB out of harm's way, and he's kept me honest in utilizing my LOC to resupply Luzon and points forward....at cost of barely opposing Allied advances from the DEI to Luzon to China to Formosa. I don't think conserving VPs is a viable strategy if it just postpones the risking of those assets until a time when the circumstances are less favorable. That's probably what's happening here.

John still has a stout navy, army and air force. But he's surrendered too much valuable ground without putting up reasonable resistance. I'm within range for a sustained strategic bombing campaign and no longer distracted by more pressing needs for my 4EB. From now on, I'll focus on the air war while cleaning up important areas in the rear.

What will be most interesting is to see how and when John uses his carriers.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11327
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 2:43:21 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Joined: 9/11/2016
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quote:

What will be most interesting is to see how and when John uses his carriers.



Looks like they will see action in postwar Godzilla movies.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11328
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 3:13:36 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I believe John will ultimately choose to fight. (And my words may set me up for a very public embarrassment soon for reasons I'll go into in about three or four turns.)

But what if the game ended this way: John keeps KB out of harm's way forever, conserving VPs while working hard to pick off the occasional Allied asset here and there; meanwhile, the strategic war increases dramatically with the Allies scoring tens of thousands of points while also attending to Japanese bases in the DEI...and ultimately the Allies achieve a 2:1 victory points ratio without anything else major happening in the game. Say that happens in June 1945. Would that be a Japanese victory of some kind because KB still existed and the Empire still existed in some form and fashion? Would it be an Allied victory because the Allies figured out how to win the game as defined by the rules?

John probably will fight, so I don't think that's going to happen. But it is one possibility.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 11329
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 3:40:04 PM   
Mike McCreery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I believe John will ultimately choose to fight. (And my words may set me up for a very public embarrassment soon for reasons I'll go into in about three or four turns.)

But what if the game ended this way: John keeps KB out of harm's way forever, conserving VPs while working hard to pick off the occasional Allied asset here and there; meanwhile, the strategic war increases dramatically with the Allies scoring tens of thousands of points while also attending to Japanese bases in the DEI...and ultimately the Allies achieve a 2:1 victory points ratio without anything else major happening in the game. Say that happens in June 1945. Would that be a Japanese victory of some kind because KB still existed and the Empire still existed in some form and fashion? Would it be an Allied victory because the Allies figured out how to win the game as defined by the rules?

John probably will fight, so I don't think that's going to happen. But it is one possibility.



In my opinion, any game that ends with strategic victory before the historical end date of the war is a total victory. Because most of the games are variant scenarios that may be unrealistic though.


_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11330
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 3:45:12 PM   
DW

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

quote:

What will be most interesting is to see how and when John uses his carriers.



Looks like they will see action in postwar Godzilla movies.


Or, glowing at Bikini atoll...

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 11331
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 3:45:40 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

quote:

What will be most interesting is to see how and when John uses his carriers.



Looks like they will see action in postwar Godzilla movies.


Very good!

I am more interested in seeing what CR has up his sleeve, if indeed he turns to the SRA and high vp bases like PM, etc., while pursuing a strategic bombing campaign...well, that doesn't seem to live up to the hints he has been dropping.

To me it seems far more likely he strikes at the islands around Hokkaido or pursue a deep strike into Korea/Yellow Sea bases.

However I haven't seen any big maps of the area so I am just guessing. But I do know that SigInt will give him all the intel he needs to launch such an invasion with a very high degree of success.

With the KB known and in and around the SRA a strike at the other end of the Empire seems entirely feasible. However, there are so many ways to skin the cat here at the end...

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 11332
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 3:51:20 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

But what if the game ended this way: John keeps KB out of harm's way forever, conserving VPs while working hard to pick off the occasional Allied asset here and there; meanwhile, the strategic war increases dramatically with the Allies scoring tens of thousands of points while also attending to Japanese bases in the DEI...and ultimately the Allies achieve a 2:1 victory points ratio without anything else major happening in the game. Say that happens in June 1945. Would that be a Japanese victory of some kind because KB still existed and the Empire still existed in some form and fashion? Would it be an Allied victory because the Allies figured out how to win the game as defined by the rules?




If John makes June of 1945 before autovic I call it a Japanese win, despite the huge amount of shipping he got.

It is my belief CR has it well within his ability to autovic prior to Mar 1, 1945. In fact I think Jan 1 1945 is doable.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11333
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 4:16:12 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

But what if the game ended this way: John keeps KB out of harm's way forever, conserving VPs while working hard to pick off the occasional Allied asset here and there; meanwhile, the strategic war increases dramatically with the Allies scoring tens of thousands of points while also attending to Japanese bases in the DEI...and ultimately the Allies achieve a 2:1 victory points ratio without anything else major happening in the game. Say that happens in June 1945. Would that be a Japanese victory of some kind because KB still existed and the Empire still existed in some form and fashion? Would it be an Allied victory because the Allies figured out how to win the game as defined by the rules?




If John makes June of 1945 before autovic I call it a Japanese win, despite the huge amount of shipping he got.

It is my belief CR has it well within his ability to autovic prior to Mar 1, 1945. In fact I think Jan 1 1945 is doable.


Isn't that the definition of....the opposite of a win?

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 11334
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 4:19:13 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I believe John will ultimately choose to fight. (And my words may set me up for a very public embarrassment soon for reasons I'll go into in about three or four turns.)

But what if the game ended this way: John keeps KB out of harm's way forever, conserving VPs while working hard to pick off the occasional Allied asset here and there; meanwhile, the strategic war increases dramatically with the Allies scoring tens of thousands of points while also attending to Japanese bases in the DEI...and ultimately the Allies achieve a 2:1 victory points ratio without anything else major happening in the game. Say that happens in June 1945. Would that be a Japanese victory of some kind because KB still existed and the Empire still existed in some form and fashion? Would it be an Allied victory because the Allies figured out how to win the game as defined by the rules?

John probably will fight, so I don't think that's going to happen. But it is one possibility.



Quite frankly if the Japanese player has a lot of BBs and carriers left in 1945 then fuel becomes a very serious issue. Using that fleet may eat up fuel needed for other late war production needs and Japan may collapse even faster than they should. Just speculating but they do guzzle the gas..

That aside I do not really even pay attention to VP because there are ways for both players to manipulate them. What would be the historical benefit of the Japanese striving to hide and protect their fleet until the end of the war? There is no historical basis for that. The war ends with Japan's surrender and what, they get a cookie because they have ships left? In my campaigns I never look at VP. I will know at the end if I won or lost.

You have to remember that due to it's massive size, play-testing this game for VP balance was virtually impossible.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11335
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 5:04:23 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Less movies and more bombing, please!

I liked the the Lord of the Rings soundtrack from the Ralph Bakshi (?) animated movie from the late 70s.

Found it for you... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0DvOMdQFBE&list=PLp_dvpr_Bjqs81NeJZQQvo70ogL7MVywW


Where there's a whip whii*chaa there's a way...
where there's a whip whii*chaa there's a way...
where there's a whip - we don't wanna go to war today... but the lord of the lash says hey hey hey!!!!

Were gonna fight all day all day all day...
for where there's a whip there's a way, left right left right

hahahah i still remember that song from the animated LOTR.

_____________________________


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 11336
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 5:08:31 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		Um the war ends when the Allies nuke Japan and force the Emperor to go on air and admit defeat.

So... you must nuke Japan or else the Allies lose.

_____________________________


(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 11337
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 7:24:37 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		9/22/44

Lots of movement taking place - increasing friction that may lead to a sudden release of energy here or there.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 11338
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 7:31:18 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Um the war ends when the Allies nuke Japan and force the Emperor to go on air and admit defeat.

So... you must nuke Japan or else the Allies lose.

You sure want to see an A-bomb used ... are you Kim Jong Un?

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 11339
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/13/2017 7:51:43 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Um the war ends when the Allies nuke Japan and force the Emperor to go on air and admit defeat.

So... you must nuke Japan or else the Allies lose.

You sure want to see an A-bomb used ... are you Kim Jong Un?


Well I have this thing... in every computer game I've played, if it includes the possible use of a nuclear bomb... well.. using the nuke becomes my goal. I play the game towards getting and using the nuclear weapon. I don't know why, it's just something I think I did in the first game I had the chance to do so, and so it became one of my gaming obsessions :) nothing game me greater pleasure in Fallout 3 then nuking Megaton.

_____________________________


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 11340
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