RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/26/2017 5:10:54 PM

Canoerebel

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No doubt. Every player (and most AAR readers) have tunnel vision in 1942, where current events are seen clearly while long term projections are made, sometimes proudly or boastfully or while drunk on ego or optimism or inexperience.

Players and the readers did, in good faith, see Sumatra through very different prisms...and then the DEI...and then Luzon...and usually with regard to the points spread, etc.

Eventually, if the players are dedicated and lucky, the game goes deeply enough to testify of itself as to which side was the more accurate in estimating how things were likely to unfold.

(in reply to FlyByKnight)

Post #: 11971

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/26/2017 6:12:48 PM

Canoerebel

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John is away for the weekend with his family. I'm spending some time micromanaging things like ground unit commanders, checking each Chinese unit and sending forward every one possible, etc.

More than anything, I've been thinking about Death Star and it's role in the game. I know the role of Strategic Bombing and Ningpo in the game. I know what I want to do with the armies and air force in China. But what about Death Star? Is it offensive or defensive or both?

I've decided that DS shall remain on defense, mainly keeping the still powerful Japanese navy in check and keeping John from getting easy whacks at Ningpo, the rest of coastal China and Formosa. Death Star's job is to prowl and menace while the air force does the job against Japan and the army does the job in China.

With that in mind, I don't want to give John a belated chance at an alpha strike combing LBA, kamikazes and KB. So Death Star won't venture into nests of interlocking enemy airfields, like the Ryukus or Kyusha. She has to remain fairly proximate to Shanghai, and that's enough to handle without blundering into greater peril.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 11972

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/26/2017 6:28:39 PM

Canoerebel

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Other than the enemy military, supply is the limiting factor on the Allied pace of operations.

I have enough supply in Formosa, Coastal China, and Luzon to allow the current pace of land activity and air operations for probably a couple of weeks. I have about 60k aboard xAKs with Death Star in reserve, probably to be used in China. And if there is a junction between the Interior China Allied forces and the Coastal China Allied forces, that will have an unknown affect on supply availability. Will the entire Allied army and all bases benefit from the Burma Road...or will the interior Chinese units and bases suck down supply from the coast? That I don't know yet.

The DEI is accumulating a massive reserve of supply - probably enough to full fund all operations in in China/Formosa for four months or longer. There is 400k supply at Boela; xAKs at Boela have 620k supply; TFs inbound are carrying 300k; and many more TFs are inbound.

In about two or three weeks, I'll need to detach Death Star or part thereof to the DEI to escort back supply. The exact nature, timing and configuring of that mission will depend on where John's carriers are and whether there's a clear and present danger posed to Ningpo. There is a chance Ningpo can almost be self-sufficient by then - large airfield, lots of fighters, and big combat TFs.

While DS is in the East China Sea, I have 14 CVEs at Manila. Five more are inbound from SoPac. Depending on where John's carriers are, those CVEs might be sufficient to shepherd the supply to Luzon. Most of the area of transit is safe. The risky stretch is from Talaud-eilanden to Surigao - perhaps 15 to 20 hexes. But there can be no chance taking with 1 million units of supply and probably 300 ships. So I'll err on the side of protection.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 11973

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/26/2017 7:29:59 PM

Canoerebel

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With John away, I'm spending more time thinking about what's happened and what might happen. I've been mulling over two predictions or plans that either didn't come true or haven't come true yet.

Early in the game, I predicted that the Allies were doing well in China and that I felt good about Changsha. Eventually, though, John wrested that important base away from me.

Later in the game, as the Allies moved forward from the DEI to Luzon, I envisioned a day when Death Star would return and the Allies would attend to key bases in the DEI. This made sense logistically because I had to leave a strong army in the DEI to protect my main supply hubs - Boela and Sorong. Looking ahead, the troops there prepped for places like Timor, Kendari, Makassar and Balikpapan (on the other side, Brit troops began prepping for Singapore).

But thus far it hasn't made sense to return to the DEI. There were too many opportunities forward, chiefly Formosa and China.

There are points to be harvested in the DEI, but at this late date it doesn't make sense to divert troops and ships down there. The down time of two weeks can be better spent concentrating on China and strategic bombing.

Circumstances might arise in which this changes: if the Allies suffer a carrier defeat, the DEI suddenly becomes an attractive idea. Or, if coastal China becomes self sustaining defensively but I still need victory points to win going into winter of '45, perhaps then.

I am working the victory point angle in the rear a bit. A little campaign managed to take Darwin and vicinity and there are ops underway to sniff the coast further down and to take Luganville. Port Moresby is also still in the crosshairs.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 11974

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/26/2017 8:19:51 PM

BBfanboy

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Even with replacements set to "off" (N), the Chinese will suck up huge amounts of supply. I have most of my Chinese units with replacements set to off, but they still gain new squads (disabled). I think the 350 squads a month that arrive at Chungking are pushed out to the field after the pools reach a certain level.

You will need to bring in hundreds of thousands of tons a month just to keep pace. The good thing is that, once they get basic supply, good leaders and morale and experience over 50, the Chinese can overwhelm smaller enemy units by sheer mass.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 11975

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/27/2017 1:23:52 PM

HansBolter

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If you want a campaign in China to succeed you need to be pumping supply in.

If your route across the Pacific is too tenuous, what about the route to Rangoon?

I cleared Rangoon in October '43 in my current game and by November I had multiple TFs of liberty ships lined up to dump over 400k into Rangoon the first month it was open.

12 liberty ships carry 75k supply and 6k fuel

16 liberty ships carry 100k supply and 8k fuel

These are the size allotments I use in setting up heavy supply TFs

12-18 of these in a shuttle set up can make China flush in 6 months.

Set up a 4-6 running supply from East Coast to Aden and 4-6 more running from Aden to Madras.

Another 4-6 running from Madras to Rangoon.

This requires a little pre-planning as it takes a bit of time to get the assets in place.

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 11976

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/27/2017 1:34:12 PM

Canoerebel

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I'm running a variation of that. Supply to India comes in at Karachi from Abadan and Aden. It moves inland, seemingly efficiently.

Then regular supply convoys run from Calcutta to Rangoon. This has been operational for probably four months now. A lot of supply has come ashore and moved into China via the Burma Road. And probably a lot has been used to upgrade TOEs and the like. Right now, Rangoon has 200k supply, Paoshan 40k, and Bangkok, far away and hard to reach, 90k. Chungking has 13k and a stockpile of fuel, of all things. So the supply system is working though I may be taxing it with everything that's going on.

There is still a small threat to my LOC since John controls Port Blair and could slip raiders in. He hasn't thus far and may never do so, but you guys know the concern (40%) I've had about a possible carrier raid the past week.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 11977

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/27/2017 3:56:31 PM

tanksone

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Hi, I realize the pace of the war may have prohibited it but did you pull say a 1/3 to a half of your trained bomber pilots in the summer of 44 so you are ready with some trained bomber pilots in 45. In Feb. 1945 pretty much all your bomber squadrons do a major expansion plus all the new B-29s?

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 11978

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/27/2017 4:42:07 PM

Canoerebel

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This graphic shows that my USAAF bomber pool has 188 pilots total, with those listed having the highest land bombing skill rating.

But the actual reserve of pilots is far, far greater. I have a huge (HUGE!) air force. Perhaps 50% of that air force is actively engaged in the war at or near the front lines in coastal China, Formosa and northern Luzon. Bringing more squadrons into play would require more and bigger airfields, more aviation support, and more supply than I can handle logistically.

The other 50% of my air force is in Burma/Thailand (modestly active), Australia (almost inactive except training), and a scattering elsewhere to protect bases and train.

Meaning, if I have a sudden need for a lot more trained pilots, I can call in pilots from squadrons in other theaters. There are a lot of them.

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(in reply to tanksone)

Post #: 11979

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/27/2017 4:48:11 PM

Canoerebel

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For instance, here is a B-24J squadron at Townsville, Australia. The squadron is in training. The pilots have acceptable GrdB skills (and not terrible NavG skills). There are a lot more squadrons in Oz, a fair number of them with pilots having considerably higher Exp and GrdB skills.

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Post #: 11980

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/27/2017 5:00:20 PM

Canoerebel

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Here's one of the B-24J squadrons just moved to Ningpo for the strategic bombing campaign. I think these are good pilots.

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(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 11981

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/27/2017 7:41:18 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Here's one of the B-24J squadrons just moved to Ningpo for the strategic bombing campaign. I think these are good pilots.

Those are very good pilots, but I would give them a couple of weeks of training at 100 feet to get their defensive skills higher. The strafe training you get out of it will also bump their overall Experience number slightly.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 11982

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/27/2017 8:44:14 PM

Canoerebel

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Now that's a good idea!

Except that it isn't!

No way I can take the foot off the accelerator now. Gotta begin the 4EB campaign from Ningpo with the best pilots available, and these are them. But I will follow your suggestion and re-set training in the rear areas and for those otherwise not presently engaged.

Or, to put it another way, darn it! I shoulda been doing that for a long time.

It's like carrier upgrades. Most of my fleet carriers are due for 4/1/44 upgrades and a few are due for 3/10/43 upgrades. But those upgrades almost surely will never happen. Death Star left Pearl Harbor in 9/43 and never spent time in port again.

Staying power, I'm telling ya. Staying power.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 11983

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 2:32:16 AM

BBfanboy

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I was gonna add that it was probably too late to do that training round for that last squadron which you have planned for Ningpo based Strat bombing.
But it could apply to the one in Australia which you have on training - that is the one I really had in mind.
And as in 1942, I understand that sometimes there is just not enough time to fully train squadrons when you need them to carry out a plan. Go get-em Reb!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 11984

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 2:55:34 AM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Here's one of the B-24J squadrons just moved to Ningpo for the strategic bombing campaign. I think these are good pilots.

Those are very good pilots, but I would give them a couple of weeks of training at 100 feet to get their defensive skills higher. The strafe training you get out of it will also bump their overall Experience number slightly.

With the intensity of action in my campaign, I am perfectly satisfied to fill my bombers with 45 exp 60 skill pilots. Just can't produce them fast enough to get them much better. I just try to send the less experience units to areas where they will have a chance. Just running missions-even easy ones will get their skills up. Bomber pilots seem to train a lot slower than fighter pilots.

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(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 11985

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 2:58:29 AM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Now that's a good idea!

Except that it isn't!

No way I can take the foot off the accelerator now. Gotta begin the 4EB campaign from Ningpo with the best pilots available, and these are them. But I will follow your suggestion and re-set training in the rear areas and for those otherwise not presently engaged.

Or, to put it another way, darn it! I shoulda been doing that for a long time.

It's like carrier upgrades. Most of my fleet carriers are due for 4/1/44 upgrades and a few are due for 3/10/43 upgrades. But those upgrades almost surely will never happen. Death Star left Pearl Harbor in 9/43 and never spent time in port again.

Staying power, I'm telling ya. Staying power.

Funny, with the changes in the power of AA, I have done the reverse. I upgrade every thing I can. The AA upgrades on Allied carriers are massive and can really mean the difference. It is my experience that once a bomber is damaged in the attack, it never hits. My first game with the old AA effects, I hardly bothered.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 11986

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 3:04:37 AM

Canoerebel

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Watching folks handle upgrades has been interesting. Some obsess over them and wouldn't consider moving until everything was perfectly suited to go. Some ignore them and come to regret it.

Here, I wanted to upgrade. But the opportunity cost was far to high. When there are gaping holes deep in the enemy's defenses, stopping for upgrades may be the mostly costly strategy possible.

When Death Star departed Pearl for the DEI in September 1943, the closest port that could handle upgrades was Townsville. That was a long, long way away. When I took Luzon it was apparent that Foochow and Formosa (and Ningpo, though I postponed that) were there for the taking. And so my carriers have never been at Manila more than two or three days at a time.

Some of my CVEs have upgraded, though.

The measuring of need versus opportunity is a really tough one. In this particular case - in this one thing - perhaps Nemo would approve.

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 11987

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 6:28:17 AM

CaptBeefheart

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Here you go.

I've noticed ol' COL I. Magata before since he's a heckuva a good leader and his name is a bit fishy. So after seeing your post I finally decided to Google him and sure enough it turns out he led the "Magata Unit" (mostly IJA 45th Infantry Rgt) in the counterattack at Bougainville. Wiki here.

Cheers,
CC

P.S.: This is not a squawk about the game whatsoever. There are bound to be a few leaders on the wrong side with a database as huge as the one in this game.

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 11988

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 6:53:01 AM

JeffroK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Here you go.

I've noticed ol' COL I. Magata before since he's a heckuva a good leader and his name is a bit fishy. So after seeing your post I finally decided to Google him and sure enough it turns out he led the "Magata Unit" (mostly IJA 45th Infantry Rgt) in the counterattack at Bougainville. Wiki here.

Cheers,
CC

P.S.: This is not a squawk about the game whatsoever. There are bound to be a few leaders on the wrong side with a database as huge as the one in this game.

Turned Nisei!

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(in reply to CaptBeefheart)

Post #: 11989

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 9:45:36 AM

Itdepends

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If your backwater pilots have reached the neede skill levels on ground bombing and defensive skills put them on naval search at low range (eg zero) so they start to gain experience above 50.

(in reply to JeffroK)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 2:12:26 PM

RangerJoe

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Going back to the upgrades, if a player always did the upgrades on all of his ships as soon as is possible or as soon as the current operation is finished and not following up with the new opportunities, then all the opponent has to do is wait for those down times and take advantage of it. Besides having lots of submarines in the path of the ships returning to base.

P.S. I am up to page 247 of the AAR during the Big Tent era and I a learning a lot. I have also started a folder of bookmarks for books to read because of this forum and especially this AAR.

Note: edited to correct a spelling error.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 8/28/2017 3:36:53 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 4:29:30 PM

HansBolter

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Speaking of interesting commander names...........

Last night I was checking combat ship commanders and discovered Rcokwell W. Torrey in command of the Oklahoma.

The game is unbelievable.

Not only does it have all of the great historical figures it has the great fictional ones as well!

_____________________________

Hans

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 7:20:32 PM

RangerJoe

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I always find a colonel in charge of a fighter unit on the west coast named "Sanders, H L."

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 11993

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 8:09:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I always find a colonel in charge of a fighter unit on the west coast named "Sanders, H L."

H. L. Sanders? I'm not getting the reference.

Has anyone ever looked for a "Wild Bill" Kelso on the west coast?

(in reply to RangerJoe)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 8:27:58 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DW

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I always find a colonel in charge of a fighter unit on the west coast named "Sanders, H L."

H. L. Sanders? I'm not getting the reference.

Has anyone ever looked for a "Wild Bill" Kelso on the west coast?

Quinton McHale is in the game as well.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to DW)

Post #: 11995

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 9:08:42 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DW

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I always find a colonel in charge of a fighter unit on the west coast named "Sanders, H L."

H. L. Sanders? I'm not getting the reference.

Has anyone ever looked for a "Wild Bill" Kelso on the west coast?

Colonel Sanders......

Attachment (1)

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Hans

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 9:11:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: DW

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I always find a colonel in charge of a fighter unit on the west coast named "Sanders, H L."

H. L. Sanders? I'm not getting the reference.

Has anyone ever looked for a "Wild Bill" Kelso on the west coast?

Quinton McHale is in the game as well.

I seem to recall Gene Roddenberry flew in the Pacific during WWII. I wonder if he's in the game...

(in reply to crsutton)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 9:45:53 PM

Canoerebel

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11/12/44

Fancy Pants: The Chinese take Hengyang, cutting the big road/railroad west of Changsha. The Japanese army now has to make its way via secondary roads or try for extraction via airfield or port. I'm not really going to work on the cut off units. I'm going to focus my efforts on moving the Chinese army east to link up with the western Allies west of Shanghai. This is a tougher call than you'd think - the more sure points would be to isolated and destroy enemy ground units. The more sure way to defeat Japan militarily is to move overland as quickly as possible to forge the union of the two armies and threaten Shanghai and points north and east.

Allied 4EB hit Nagasaki at night and conduct the first daytime strat bombing raids, vs. Shimoneski and Kanazoya. Bombing accuracy is much elevated in the daytime, I quickly discover, but as of yet the points scored were modest, at best. We'll see. Right now, the Allies have about 15,500 strat bombing points. I'd like to nudge that up to about 22,500 to 25,000 by the end of November. I don't think that's impossible but it might be tough.

And enemy carriers (without aircraft, seemingly) arrive at Okinawa. Even while I'm focused on China and 4EB, John is working some angle here. I don't know what, so I'll just concentrate on defense right now.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/28/2017 10:10:49 PM

Canoerebel

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Some Peggys and Franceses tried a night bombing raid against Manila - the first I think for John. I had three or four night fighter squadrons up. A few enemy bombers were downed and no hits were scored.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/29/2017 12:04:21 AM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

And enemy carriers (without aircraft, seemingly) arrive at Okinawa. Even while I'm focused on China and 4EB, John is working some angle here. I don't know what, so I'll just concentrate on defense right now.

As the old saying goes.....you can't cheat an honest man. Looks like he is flashing some bait. This Turkey will not trot to water. Stick to your knitting Spruance.

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Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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