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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/12/2018 10:05:14 PM   
paullus99


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Here's a nasty thought....

Send your sweepers, en masse, to attack one of his vital bases.....then when he pulls planes because he knows you'll hit it again, you hit one of his other bases....

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to DRF99)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/13/2018 12:04:17 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Supply, terrain and opposition would be the biggest deterrents.

From a political standpoint, I wouldn't consider violating Soviet neutrality, even if it were possible (and I don't know whether it is or not).

There's a chance Russia will activate - and I'd really be pushing for it if the game seemed likely to last a month or two.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DRF99

Not that this game will likely go on long enough, but...

Even though the Soviet Union isn't active, is there anything to prevent you from marching up the east coast of Korea, opening a land route to Vladivostok, marching in some engineers and base forces, and using this as a bomber base to attack northern Japan?

Just wondering.


(in reply to DRF99)
Post #: 13802
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/13/2018 1:44:27 AM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
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From: Los Angeles
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quote:

Singers: Latest mouseover really clouds the picture as to what John might have there.


What's the mine situation? It looks to me like the place is ripe for some fast bombardment TF's.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 13803
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/13/2018 1:48:58 AM   
Canoerebel


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I don't know about the mine situation - no Allied ships/subs have entered that hex since '43 or '42 or '41.

Nealry all my combat TF power is in the Yellow Sea region. I do have some stout TFs at Formosa, Manila and Boela, but they're protecting vital shipping and airfields, so they ain't going anywhere.

If the game stretches into mid-May, it's likely I'll send Death Star and lots of combat ships to help at Singers. But right now it seems that the war can be won most expeditiously around Korea.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 13804
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/13/2018 3:59:17 AM   
Canoerebel


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A highlight reel of John III comments in 1945:

2/1/45: Are you seriously looking at making another Amphib Landing in China/Manchuria/Korea? Wow. Roll the dice Sir. I’ve got anywhere from 600—3,100 AV at the coast ports. This could be interesting to watch. [Allies invade Gunzan, Korea, with little opposition.]

2/2/45: This should prove interesting. I was thinking you’d land on the China side or deep into the Yellow Sea. OK. For years, 8,831 AV have sat idle. Orders go out… [orders went out and nothing much happened]

2/3/45: You’ve fully activated the Manchurian/Korean troops. Never thought in a million years they would actually get a chance to fight. This WILL be fun to watch. Part of me—in the AAR---talked about your China move that it would be telling at four points:

1. Form the coastal lodgment and use it to directly jump into Japan by Nov 1944. OR
2. Advance deeper into China and take all of Southern China to the Yangste. Japan by February 1945. OR
3. Advance and take all of China but stop short of crossing into Manchuria. Japan Landing by May 1945. OR
4. Stay and take the entire Mainland. No Japan Landing until late-Summer 1945.

I hoped for this so the Mainland could continue to develop new ‘toys’ and rebuild destroyed units. Looks like it is Option 4 so it should be interesting to see just how much TIME and Casualties this decision costs. You get AFs right next to the Homeland but the troops will be occupied for quite a while. [Since then, I think he's had far more units destroyed than he's rebuilt.]

2/3/45: Speaking as a player, I really like your move here. Might have waited another 10-14 days so you could be engaged or threatening to engage my line up in Eastern China/Western Manchuria. If that had happened I would not have a wealth of reinforcements to send south to the knew threat. Reality is that you have 3,000 modern AV landed and will be on the move with a strong chance of crushing anything in its path but at least I do have the option of making it a fight. As said, nice move. [I should've gotten his advice before invading Korea. It would've turned out much better.]

2/3/45: The debate going on in my AAR is something. I have 8,771 AV and another 3,500 at the border. You have everything going for you! We’ll see how right Rommel was about the only chance of winning the invasion was at the beach.

My 600-3,100 comment was farther NORTH. I thought you would work farther north to cut off the troops up there. WRONG on John’s part.

You are right ‘it’s fun and wacky and violent and frenetic.’

Were you surprised to run into a capital ship at Fusan? There are more baby. The Kaigun will make its final stand… [His 12,000 AV is in trouble. He committed the Kaigun in bits and spurts, so that it's gotten chewed up mostly.]

3/10/45: You wanted the land war in Asia. It has taken me FOREVER to spread you out enough to give my Imperial Army a chance. Well…buddy…lets go! Here is the war in China and Korea. It is simple. Beat the Imperial Army here and you win the war.

Your Fleet is a long-assed ways away and I THINK I can beat you in the air…perhaps…more like give you a bloody nose.

Course everything is still humming along in the Home Islands economy…

We’ve got fightin’ attitude right now. [Allied offensive maneuvers, it appears, actually resulted from John hocus-pocusing and spreading me out, my fleet was too far away, and the Allies are in deep doo-doo]

3/25/45: The fight in China is pretty exciting. We’ll see how it plays out over the next 3-4 days. Will you have an open road to Manchuria or be pushed back 200 or 350 miles? [Allies pushed back zero miles.]

4/7/45: My personal bet, barring surprises, is May 10th. [Prediction two weeks ago that game would end on May 10, followed by yesterday's post that he "thought the game would be over by now" - April 24. He'll keep guessing right up to the date of auto victory and will get it just right.]

4/13/45: Let April 13, 1945 be the benchmark for when Imperial Japan began serious surrender discussions at the highest levels of its government. It doesn’t leak to the people but it does to American Intelligence.

Damn. The combat firepower you have is AMAZING.

4/21/45: After this turn, I may take a day off tomorrow. [This was a tough day for him - KB South flubbed it's raid vs. Ceylon and a bunch of land setbacks in China and Korea.]

4/24/45: You are correct that the VP’s are moving but not that fast. You had a chance to bag a BUNCH of VP with that botched CV attack. Appreciated all those Fighters on CAP and not available to fly as escorts. I’ve never been a VP person. You know that but if this instance it makes sense to me. Thought we’d hit 2-1 about now but have managed to slightly move it back. We have bets from Forum players as to when that number is reached.

Looks like you get to experience what every Japanese player does in assaulting Singapore. Might be pretty interesting to watch. [Thanks for pointng out all my mistakes. If I was better, the Allies could've earned a Major Major Victory.]



(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 13805
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/13/2018 11:52:15 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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John posted this in a main thread Forum last night.

"Thank You LST [referring to LST's comments about 4EB]. I have stayed out of this thread due to my strong feeling on this subject. You, politely, hit the nail on the head.

"Add to that the ability of 40-50 4EB to inflict 1,000+ Casualties on troops in Lvl-6 Forts and we're moving farther into the fantasy realms..."

John's been battered in our game by 2EB and 4EB but he's exaggerating to make his point and not giving the complete picture. When his troops are in good terrain and protected by fighters, flak or forts, 4EB missions are much less productive (and sometimes counterproductive due to 4EB losses). When his troops are in open terrain without forts, fighters and flak, the damage inflicted has been immense. But there's more to it than that.

Take this example from yesterday's turn. Taikyu is the key to his defenses in Korea. He has a big army there, he controls the base, it's open terrain and has one fort. He's just undergone a 2:1 deliberate attack, so he knows his troops are in big trouble. The following turn, the first of many Allied air attacks against this hex:

Morning Air attack on 32nd Division, at 103,53 (Taikyu)

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt II x 16
B-24J Liberator x 3
F4U-1D Corsair x 15
B-24J Liberator x 42
B-25D1 Mitchell x 3
B-25H Mitchell x 7
B-25J1 Mitchell x 3
P-51D Mustang x 36
F4U-1A Corsair x 14

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 11 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-25H Mitchell: 4 damaged
B-25J1 Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
500 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 20 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 45 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 11 (1 destroyed, 10 disabled)

There were many more raids during the course of the turn, none opposed by Japanese fighters. The damage inflicted was significant but not immense, at least considering the open terrain, lack of good forts, and lack of fighters. John had more than 1,000 fighters within a dozen hexes of Taikyu. He could've committed any or all of them to the defense but chose not to. He preferred to keep them over his key industrial targets. He had 624 fighters at Tokyo, 237 at Yokahama, 292 at Nagoya, 151 at Nagasaki, and hundreds more at other Japanese bases.

Because of the immense level of fighter protection over those bases, I haven't tackled them them in months or at all (except Nagasaki). He's protecting his industry at the expense of other potential targets, so he's making concious trade-offs here. In effect he's asking for the abiliity to maximize protection of his industry while protecitng other targets through house rules.


< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/13/2018 12:26:06 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/13/2018 2:44:05 PM   
Dirtnap86


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quote:

so he's making concious trade-offs here

Possibly in his mind its a not so conscious decision.

He thinks in his head, 'I have to defend my industry at all costs, because Dan is coming for it.' Then you slap him with 50+ bombers against troops in open terrain with no flak, few forts. And then he feels cheated because you didn't play exactly into the meat grinder over Tokyo like he wanted.

Or something.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 13807
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/13/2018 3:29:06 PM   
palioboy2

 

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I hate this rational -

My ASW is much better then historical Japan because I made radically different doctrine choice then Japan did historically.

You can't use 4Es against troops because that wasn't the Allies doctrine. As if the Allies wouldn't have found a way to use heavy bombers effectively against troops if they wanted too. It was political reasons that made heavy bomber commanders insist they were wasted hitting enemy troops, I'm sure it could be done effectively if they wanted to. You are just changing doctrine the same way he is.

(in reply to Dirtnap86)
Post #: 13808
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/13/2018 3:36:29 PM   
Canoerebel


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Yup.

4EB were mostly used against strategic targets but not always. In France in '44, we're all familiar with the concentrated use of B-17s against the German main line. The raid went awry with poor weather and targeting and lots of friendly casualties including General Leslie McNair. The Allies thought the raid was a complete waste of resources....but the German commanders testified to how effectively the attack disrupted their units.

If Germany or Japan had developed uber fighters with uber pilots that could still outnumber and outperform Allied fighters and bombers in 1945, making raids on Berlin or Tokyo too costly, the Allies would've searched for other good uses of those bombers.

(in reply to palioboy2)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/13/2018 4:12:40 PM   
AcePylut


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Not to mention - practically no complaints about using Netties on Naval Attack to devastating effect.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/13/2018 5:45:38 PM   
Panther Bait


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Or every night-time BB airfield nuke bombardment mimicking one successful raid against an unimproved airstrip located directly on the shore of a smallish island. Apparently single spotter planes are immune to lack of moonlight.

_____________________________

When you shoot at a destroyer and miss, it's like hit'in a wildcat in the ass with a banjo.

Nathan Dogan, USS Gurnard

(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 13811
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/13/2018 11:33:28 PM   
Canoerebel


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4/26/45

CenPac: CL/DD TF reacts and make an intercept. It's not often I've put a combat TF into the midst of a juicy merchant TF.





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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/13/2018 11:43:30 PM   
Canoerebel


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4/26/45

DEI: Some progress mainly because John isn't attending to things as carefully here. Too many gut-wrenching things going on in more important places.




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Post #: 13813
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/14/2018 12:05:21 AM   
Canoerebel


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4/26/45

China: Isolated IJ army in Kaifeng Pocket is disappearing quickly. A fair bit (4,000 AV?) of the Chinese army will move on immediately to Peiping, with perhaps 1,500 AV remaining to destroy the enemy stack.





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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/14/2018 12:44:51 AM   
Canoerebel


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4/26/45

Intel Screen: A decent day....but all those tankers roughed up and that vast army in China disappearing. I keep thinking I've pulled the levers that will yield a jackpot, only to discover I'm pretty much fated to about 500 points per turn.






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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/14/2018 1:36:38 AM   
Canoerebel


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In addition to 4EB, I know that John has serious issues about Death Star. His thoughts are just as flawed.

John (and Japanese players in general) prefer a game where Japan is more competitive. (I do too. I want to be pushed to the edge and challenged.) The game gives them many advantages (thank goodness!) that they relish and enjoy, and that we Allied players then get to relish and enjoy because the challenge is great. Japan gets more fighters, more bombers, more pilots, better coordination, more potency at extreme ranges, etc. In this mod, Japan gets many more flattops and other combat ships. The net effect is a vastly improved air force that poses a lethal threat to all things Allied. The Allied player had better give this careful thought.

Right now, John has 3,198 aircraft at nine major airfields in Japan (and hundreds of others at bases I didn't count). If he assembled KB in the Home Islands, it might contribute another 1,500 aircraft. This potent mix is augmented by the aforementioned ability to coordinate and attack at long range, plus the lethality of kamikazes. And he has plentiful level 7, 8, and 9 airfields from which to launch those aircraft. Japan is a bristling, ****ly cactus of air power that might total more than 5,000 aircraft.

By boosting air power, Japanese players force (or at least encourage) Allied players to take countermeasures. If Japanese players prefer that Allied players play historically, with lots of smaller carrier TFs, then we need to revert to the real war air balance, else Allied players are going to get licked. It's because of the boosts to Japanese capabilities that the Allies have to react.

Since my invasions have penetrated deep and beyond Allied LBA cover (DEI, Luzon, China), I created Death Star to maximize the defenses against potentially massive air strikes. I haven't always maintained a cohesive DS, sometimes separating the CVEs from the CVs for weeks at a time. But whenever I approach a nest of level 9 airfields, especially around Shanghai or Korea or Japan, I know John might cobble together strikes in excess of 2,000 aircraft - something that can battle DS toe to toe.

Why hasn't John done so? Why didn't he mass his carriers and LBA and kamikazes? Mostly, I think, because he threw his hands in the air and declared DS "unfair." Therefore, he wasn't going to stoop to getting sucked into that trap.

Japan in 1945 had no choice but to attack under impossible conditions. John doesn't like it that he's faced with the same impossible conditions (though they probably aren't impossible).

He wants to be able to go toe to toe with the Allies in '45, with a counter for each tactic and weapon. Oh, he'd make some concessions. AFter all, the Allies were stronger in '45. But I think what he really wants is to play Blitzkrieg with one twist. Blitzkrieg was the Avalon Hill game in which both sides started with equal forces and similar terrain (IE, a more complex game of chess). The twist is that John would insist on the Japanese having the historical (or, preferably, historical-on-steroids) ability to blast out of the opening gate and run amock for a year or so.

Since he doesn't have parity, he'll keep adding House Rules and mod sweets until he is able to compete toe to toe. When he reaches that nirvana, he'll have created Blitzkrieg in the Pacific.


< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/14/2018 1:48:24 AM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/14/2018 5:10:09 AM   
T Rav

 

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No plan (or doctrine) survives contact with the enemy. Just look how General Kenney (5th AF) had to fight with the hand he was dealt. But then working with the likes of Pappy Gunn and others, they improved logistics, tactics and armament to the situation at hand.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 13817
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/14/2018 7:32:11 AM   
Barb


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Well J3 did "almost" everything opposite since the start of war that the real Japanese did:
- Starting probably with his quick reaction to Sumatra landings - IRL the Japs were usually committed to piecemeal reinforcements (See Guadalcanal, etc.). He had concentrated quickly and managed to brute force you out.
- Evading confrontation KB vs DS all the time - IRL Japs were sold on to the idea of Kantai Kessen that they stuck to it till the end. It is true that he treated KB in this game more like strategic asset (chess figure) instead of going for the throat.
- He loves to be aggressive - numerous counter-landings, more of them cancelled (but yet pondered even in a situations that were completely out of his hands), continuous ground-attacks in Burma till worn down, continuous counter-attacks against pursuing armor being impaled on arriving infantry reinforcements, etc...
- "Patience and defensive posture" are almost completely lacking in his vocabulary :D
- His continuous sailing of almost full KB around the map for years had burned countless fuel!
- He also failed to recognize the strategy you are using (get on the "high" ground and let the SOBs come to us) losing precious space, opposing you with only limited forces (that were quickly overrun by allied steamroller).
- He also used mass on more than one occasion - you are just doing the same.

- It may be true that if he had used those 5000 planes in a single assault on your DS now, it would throw you 1500+ points on a single day without anything meaningful to gain (loss of 1-2 Essexes or 10 CVEs is nothing to you now). But he could have done it much earlier and with better results, yet he failed to do so every time you had offered him the chance to do so (Philippines/Formosa/Shanghai).


Re: 4E use against ground units - actually this was used more than just once or twice, with mixed results. What is more important this should be probably the ideal situation where PPs should really be meant for. Diverting single 4E (B-29 double so) from its main role of Strategic bombing/winning air superiority for ground support IRL always drew enormous opposition from the Air Leaders. Being it RAF night bomber force used around Caen, or prior Normandy, and Veritable, etc. USAAF 8th in the same situations + Cobra, etc. Also using B-29s for other than "factory bombing" created outcry - one of the said mission in support of ground forces was bombing of dockside/port of Wenchow/Hankow? in 44 called upon by Japanese ground offensive. Other missions forced upon XX Bomber command were airfield attacks on Formosa prior and during Philippine/Okinawa operations. So diverting 4E to ground targets present perfect example of where PPs should be spent to "force your way".

< Message edited by Barb -- 2/14/2018 7:48:20 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to T Rav)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/14/2018 8:47:10 AM   
JohnDillworth


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John had ample opportunity to use the KB on fairly equal terms. He did a silly thunder run and got all his CVE's killed but only lost one CV, (I think). Then he suffered a bout of McClellan syndrome where he would not deploy the KB unless every single CV was in tow and all had the latest upgrades, new aircraft fresh paint and a barnacle scrape. He had 3 or 4 opportunities to take a swing on almost equal terms and for whatever reason the KB never got a scratch on it. As a mentor told me many times; "never let the perfect be the enemy of the good". no time was perfect, but plenty were good. After the Philippines the opportunities were not as good. So now he can surrender them. They will make nice trophies

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Barb)
Post #: 13819
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/14/2018 3:26:15 PM   
Dirtnap86


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quote:

They will make nice trophies

It'll be Kaga and Akagi getting the canned sunshine treatment instead of Sister Sara in this timeline I guess.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 13820
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/14/2018 5:14:57 PM   
Canoerebel


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I seem to have had a meltdown yesterday. It was an odd sensation because it was limited solely to the cyber world of AE. In real life, it was a pleasantly serene day. I spoke to a group of seniors at a church; I worked with a promising author; I ran three tough miles on Lavender Mountain; I finished An Army at Dawn; and I cleaned the kitchen for my wife, who's a bit under the weather. There were no storms in real life, but in AE Land I snapped.

There was justification (to my way of thinking) for it but it probably wasn't necessary and it probably wasn't productive. I doubt I changed any minds. And I bet John, who's enduring relentless punishment in the game, was stung by the vehemence of my posts and the strong opinions expressed by a number of well-respected members of the community.

Here's a little note I sent today to a kind Forumite who had sent me a private message:

You’re probably right [in offering that the game engine probably has trouble modeling major 4EB strikes on open ground, noting Cobra as an example], but then Germany didn’t have 1,500 (or whatever the actual number is) fighters nearby. John knew the attack was coming and didn’t allocate any fighters to defend the base. Part of that, I think, is shear stubbornness. He’s convinced himself that he’s the victim of abuse, so he’d rather take the abuse so that his visibility as a victim isn’t tarnished by tactics that might suppress the victimization. I don’t know that that’s what’s going on, but I think it’s possible, both with 4EB and Death Star.

Yet John continues to play faithfully, even while absorbing immense punishment every turn. What a trooper he is! He deserves so much credit for soldiering through this mess – soldiering through even when he thinks he’s been unfairly treated. I’m really impressed with his resolve.

I try to send John occasional humorous messages that always include an underlying word of encouragement. But sometimes empathy can come across as pity, which is maddening. I’m trying to avoid that at all costs, because he’s taking enough abuse in the game that he doesn’t need pity making him feel all the worse.

The best thing that can happen now is for me to do everything possible to end the game as soon as possible. It’s getting close. Then he can receive accolades and commiserations for what he’s endured. Perhaps he’ll learn a bit from what’s happened (probably not – he’s smart but stubborn and set on his views). And then he’ll be able to launch his new game vs. Big Red. It’ll be fun to watch that!

Thanks for chiming in with good thoughts.





< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/14/2018 5:15:39 PM >

(in reply to Dirtnap86)
Post #: 13821
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/14/2018 5:52:40 PM   
Canoerebel


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At lunch today, I read part of the prologue to The Day of Battle. It's as good as the prologue to Guns at Last Light, which is about the finest writing possible (the prologue to An Army at Dawn is good, but not as good as the other two in the Liberation Trilogy). The author, Atkinson, notes that in 1943, the United States manufactured more airplanes (82,000) than the rest of the world combined, and more tanks (30,000) than Germany built from 1939 to 1945. We all know what happened when Japan "woke the sleeping giant," but it really was staggering.

In the game, the British aircraft pools are and have always been empty (except Spit VIIIs and some of the naval aircraft). I have no RAF 4EB and 2EB. As for the Americans, I'm low on all bombers. I have 30 B-24Ls in stock. There are no B-25s to speak of. The B-29 pools are low. Fighter numbers are pretty good. On the map, I'm struggling a bit, though John doesn't know it. Most of my B-24 squadrons are flying at 1/2 or 1/3rd numbers now. I'm having some difficulty producing enough trained pilots to handle my fighters. The Marine and Army fighter pilot pools are in pretty good shape, but Navy pilot pools are sparse. To John it seems that the number of Allied planes attack is unending but it's actually a bit tenuous. But there's no sense of alarm with the end of the game so close.

Allied supply in Korea is sufficient to see the war through. At present there's about 1.2 million supply there. China is beginning to get a bit low - the bases, not the ground troops. If the game seemed likely to last another month or two, I'd now detach DS to head south for supply TF escort duty. But with only about two weeks left to go, in all likelihood, I'll keep DS on station. If supply in Korea drops to 750k, I'll detach DS unless victory is a day or two away. In a way I wish there was enough time to detach DS and handle the invasion of Java. The troops and ships are ready to go. But the war can be won in Korea and China and the Home Islands. No sense in taking the foot off the gas pedal.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 13822
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/14/2018 7:08:18 PM   
FlyByKnight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirtnap86

quote:

They will make nice trophies

It'll be Kaga and Akagi getting the canned sunshine treatment instead of Sister Sara in this timeline I guess.

Crossroads will probably be an all-IJN experience at this rate.

(in reply to Dirtnap86)
Post #: 13823
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/14/2018 9:54:05 PM   
Canoerebel


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In the war, the Allies torched Tokyo from two bases: Saipan and Tinian. If the Allies largely relied on those two bases in the game, they'd lose 85% of their B-29s and score about 1,000 strategic points, if that. The Japanese player would clean his clock. Production of advanced air frames and pilot training are the main reasons, of course.

In the game, the Allies have been bombing Japan from Korea for several months - from level 9 airfields packed with supply and aircraft. And before that, the same was taking place from multiple huge airfields in China, and Taiwan, and Luzon. Despite that massive advantage and all the other advantages (Death Star, 4EB vs. ground troops, etc.), this game is going to end in May 1945. That's just three months before the actual end. Many, many factors enter into that (certainly, some Forumites believe, operator error and inability), but the main reason is that Japan is awfully tough to beat under the Victory Points system. There's almost no way to achieve AV in 1944 (3:1? No way.).

Japan has gotten pretty torched in this game, and the fact that the Allies are bombing from Korea as opposed to distant Tinian and Saipan is a great barometer as to just how hard Japan has been hit. But Japan is tough and resilient in capable hands and probably even in incapable hands if the Allied opponent is also incapable.


(in reply to FlyByKnight)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/14/2018 11:51:43 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

In the war, the Allies torched Tokyo from two bases: Saipan and Tinian. If the Allies largely relied on those two bases in the game, they'd lose 85% of their B-29s and score about 1,000 strategic points, if that. The Japanese player would clean his clock. Production of advanced air frames and pilot training are the main reasons, of course.


Well, not really. If you were to use historical aircraft production and training Japan would be dust.....just like in real life. On a good day Japan was putting up dozens, not hundreds of interceptors. And crap ones at that. On a good night? a few. The planes and pilots that Japan was sending to intercept B-29's were not up to the job. They had more success ramming than shooting. Most of them could not really get to altitude and speed to make more that an occasional pass.

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Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/15/2018 1:52:35 AM   
Canoerebel


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I meant "in the game." If the Allies relied on the Marianas for strat bombing in the current game, with Japanese production, etc., they'd get killed. In the game, strat bombing from Saipan/Tinian would be feeble. That's just another illustration of how different the game is from the real war.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/15/2018 1:54:29 AM   
Canoerebel


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4/27/45

Intel Screen: A good day for the Allies, mainly due to the near-destruction of the main IJ army in the Kaifeng Pocket.

I'll post a "big picture" screenshot later tonight or tomorrow morning.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/15/2018 3:03:46 AM   
Canoerebel


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4/27/45

China: The Allies reaped a lot of points today from the near-destruction of the IJ army in the Kaifeng Pocket. There's not much left to do in China shy of Peiping and Tientsin. There might be time remaining to arrive at the former and perhaps even take it. But the hourglass is nearly empty.






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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/15/2018 3:21:06 AM   
Canoerebel


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4/27/45

Korea: Allied army moving forward in good order. The final battles of southern Korea will take place over the next week or two.

Home Islands: The Allies have milked southern Japan about as much as possible. To finish the game, I'll have to take on John's well-defended bases in middle Japan. Death Star might lend a hand.





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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/15/2018 3:27:54 AM   
BillBrown


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I see port symbols on a number of cities in Japan, could there be points to be made using your 2 engine bombers on those targets? Just a thought.

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