RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/1/2013 8:13:55 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

Looks like you did bring the "kitchen sink." Developing a series of interlocking airbases with the ability to keep rotating in and out air units, while pushing hard in Burma - got to be a JFB's nightmare....if / when you are able to start limited offensive operations elsewhere, John is going to have to make some hard decisions as to how to split his resources.....

I wonder if John is contemplating a rescue mission of his troops in Burnma? Bring a convoy in, load em up with the best and brightest divisions, protect em with the KB and deposit them in an advantageous place? Beats walking and a troop convoy of that magnitude would certaining be a tempting target that might bring the USN out to play. To risky me thinks, even for a player that needs a 4 run homer

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/1/2013 9:05:38 PM

Cribtop

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I once had a PBEM opponent start the traditional e-mail banter for turn one by saying: "Good luck! See you in about four years in Tokyo Bay... Remember to bring a pen."

The situation in this game is starting to remind me of that hilarious missive. IMHO John brings the whole IJN to a fight it loses and then is REALLY up a creek, resulting in a death spiral. Maybe I'm being a little over-optimistic from CR's perspective, but that's my bet.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/1/2013 9:22:51 PM

paullus99

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John isn't one to shy away from a fight - especially one where he feels he can inflict "crippling" defeats on this opponent. He'll bring his own kitchen sink here, I'm sure.....as for abandoning Burma, I doubt it - he'll have to withdraw, but he will leave enough behind to try to hold what he can, for as long as he can.

Of course, this pretty much cancels anything he might have had planned in China....

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/1/2013 10:56:14 PM

The Sandman

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Here's a question, now that you've got Alor Star: how much more would you have to send into Malaya to have a serious chance at liberating all of it down to Singapore? And would it be worth it to use all of your unrestricted US troops there instead of the traditional CenPac or SWPac campaigns?

And are there any bases you can get to relatively soon in either Sumatra or Malaya that produce a respectable amount of supply?

Once you know that the KB is in the Indian Ocean, would it be worth it to refuse a carrier battle completely and instead run your own carriers into the Java or South China Seas to pay a visit to Tarakan or Miri? And if so, go with the usual complement, or shuffle the air groups so that some of the carriers are toting nothing but strike aircraft? In fact, that might be a really nasty trick, assuming I'm not overlooking a basic reason why it wouldn't work; split your air groups so that some of your carriers have nothing but fighters and the others have nothing but bombers. Send the bomber-laden carriers on a high-speed run through the DEI to smash as many tankers, oilers and other resource-carrying ships as possible, keep the fighter-laden ones as bait for KB and use them to chop apart the veteran air groups when they try to punch through your stronger-than-normal CAP.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/1/2013 11:06:12 PM

CowboyRonin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Sandman

Here's a question, now that you've got Alor Star: how much more would you have to send into Malaya to have a serious chance at liberating all of it down to Singapore? And would it be worth it to use all of your unrestricted US troops there instead of the traditional CenPac or SWPac campaigns?

And are there any bases you can get to relatively soon in either Sumatra or Malaya that produce a respectable amount of supply?

Once you know that the KB is in the Indian Ocean, would it be worth it to refuse a carrier battle completely and instead run your own carriers into the Java or South China Seas to pay a visit to Tarakan or Miri? And if so, go with the usual complement, or shuffle the air groups so that some of the carriers are toting nothing but strike aircraft? In fact, that might be a really nasty trick, assuming I'm not overlooking a basic reason why it wouldn't work; split your air groups so that some of your carriers have nothing but fighters and the others have nothing but bombers. Send the bomber-laden carriers on a high-speed run through the DEI to smash as many tankers, oilers and other resource-carrying ships as possible, keep the fighter-laden ones as bait for KB and use them to chop apart the veteran air groups when they try to punch through your stronger-than-normal CAP.

The problem with completely splitting groups is that you would end up with strike groups with no escorts. In game, you cannot control where Naval Attack missions go - there is no targeting. One CAP trap with fighter trainers (Nates, Claudes, obsolete Oscars, etc), and you lose a large number of valuable strike aircraft and pilots. On the flip side, CR can, and probably has, augmented his fighter groups with Marine units that are carrier-capable, but don't start carrier-trained. You can easily put up some pretty impressive CAP with that. Also, at this point in the war, USN carriers are operating under some coordination restrictions regarding multi-carrier groups. I'm not sure exactly when those are removed, but I think it's not until sometime in 1943.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/1/2013 11:22:52 PM

Canoerebel

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11/19/42 - D+9, Operation Des Wallace

My experience has been that alot of things that just sound good in the dark of the night take on an entirely different aspect in the light of day. A cool plan you conceive of one day ends up looking very risky as D-Day approaches 60 days later, etc. Popping the Allied carriers into the South China Sea or Java Sea would be pretty much playing Russian Roulette with five of the six chambers loaded.

On Land: Almost! Almost! The Allied attack at Sibolga comes off at 3:1, drops forts to 2, and destroys something like 25 squads. I think the base will fall tomorrow, but it is agonizing to wait as the chance of a fast transport mission coming in seems high. The CA Quincy group hung back last night (why, I dunno) but looks primed to visit the port tonight, so hopefully no fast transport can come in. 27th USA Div. looks to be in pretty good shape and will shock attack at Langsa tomorrow. I think the odds are favorable, but even if this fails, two more divisions are a few hexes away and will reach Langsa in five days or so. John's early "counter attack" moves against Singora appear to consist of Thai units.

In the Air: Another devastating Allied bombardment run vs. VP - I think John has had to vacate the field. And two fast BBs unleash the first bombardment vs. Georgetown, which also has good results. Nevertheless, Japanese air becoming very pestering now. Lots of Kates (no torps) from Singapore, etc. picked off more AKs plus two nice AMC that had just finished the FT run to Langsa. Netties from Port Blair reached out farther than I expected to pick off more ships - some empty xAKs but also some xAPs loaded with an Indian division (that hurts). The LOC between Sabang and Colombo has a big jog to the west to avoid Port Blair, but some TFs keep refusing to obey waypoint instructions. Sabang airfield goes to 4.46, in increase of .24 on the day, so this base should go to level 5 in three days.

At Sea: No sign of the KB (yet). Lots of Allied ships continue the retrograde to Colombo and thence to other places. I'm going to have half a dozen lightly to moderately damaged DDs at Colombo within a few day and the yards are already crammed with CAs and CLs still repairing from the Second Battle of Assam and later action (Pensacola and New Orleans are there along with Boise and Mauritius).

Japanese Plans/Allied Plans: I believe John has one of two choices: (1) to institute some kind of Dunkirk operation for Burma, using his carriers. I don't think that's an attractive option to John because it puts his carriers in a tight corner, (2) to win a carrier battle that allows him to impose a blockade of Sumatra and just continue on with the ground war in Burma. To me that's the much more attractive option. I think John is therefore in the position of having to seek and having to win a carrier battle. I think the Allies are in the position of having to avoid losing a carrier battle. So I can play around, jousting and parrying while seeking an advantage. One possible advantage will be if the KB skewers itself on LBA (hey, I can hope, can't I?).

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/1/2013 11:41:31 PM

Canoerebel

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There's an IJ TF between Port Blair and Rangoon on an easternly heading, as if for Moulmein. Cursor indicates these a "CVs." If so, those rare relics of the Second Battle of Assam and not leakers inbound from the IO (the Allies have had the sea lanes absolutely saturated with ships and patrols, so there's no possibility John could have sprung these into theater). If these are carriers and hung up in "no man's land," then the situation is that much more dire for John. Stricken BB Mutsu and some number of carriers. Ouch.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/1/2013 11:44:25 PM

Canoerebel

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The three or four xAPs torched by Netties out of Port Blair weren't carrying troops - they were empty and on the way back to Colombo. The Indian division is intact on transports much closer to Colombo. I'll steer them further west while keeping a weather eye out for the KB.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/1/2013 11:44:31 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

There's an IJ TF between Port Blair and Rangoon on an easternly heading, as if for Moulmein. Cursor indicates these a "CVs." If so, those rare relics of the Second Battle of Assam and not leakers inbound from the IO (the Allies have had the sea lanes absolutely saturated with ships and patrols, so there's no possibility John could have sprung these into theater). If these are carriers and hung up in "no man's land," then the situation is that much more dire for John. Stricken BB Mutsu and some number of carriers. Ouch.

Bait?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/1/2013 11:53:01 PM

Canoerebel

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Are they are aren't they? The cursor says they are.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 12:01:10 AM

Canoerebel

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D+9

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 12:41:10 AM

princep01

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After a quiet Sunday, the AAR leaps forward!

Some thoughts.
1. Would a IJA paradrop in the Nicobar Is be simply a great way for the IJA to waste paratroops? What good purpose would they serve IJ?

2. HAve to agree w/ Crib that the destruction of the picket ships is a path clearing op. Door 1 looks like the door.

3. Do you know what is coming down the road to Singora (the north coast base you took w/ paras)?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 12:57:21 AM

Canoerebel

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The unit coming down the road is Thai infantry, roughly 60-70 AV.

The Nicobars are undoubtedly much lower priority that some of the other islands, but John has a menu full of items that must be taken and he might decide to begin with some easier pickings.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 1:22:58 AM

princep01

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And to John's comment about "no more freebies", well, I'd say you don't need anymore freebies anyway.

One more question. Was it part of your original plan to also land quickly in Malaya or was that a Nemo inspired adjunct to the Sumatra Smackdown?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 1:27:26 AM

Canoerebel

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Nemo deserves much credit for that. I probably would have snapped up the vacant islands on my own initiative. Then, had things gone well, I might have tinkered with a move on Alor Star and paratroop drops on some of the peninsula bases, but I think any such moves (especially an invasion) would have been considerably delayed.

Readers of John's AAR will know far more than I do, but I think the moves have paid handsome dividends in forcing John to attend to Malaya, thus perhaps buying critical time for the Allies to deal with Sibolga.

Bottom Line: Nemo.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 1:36:12 AM

Schlemiel

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There's a reason 3 year olds are obsessed with finding nemo. It's all about securing Sydney harbor with a deft strike against Malaysia.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 1:42:04 AM

princep01

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Nemo is a gifted strategic thinker. The other Nemo is gifted at avoiding sharks.

The Great Leap Forward is closing the Greyjoy gap...he hears the growing patter of many feet rushing toward him. Zombies, Moriarty, barbarians, pasta thieves, his many broken hearted girl-friends? What evil his way comes?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 11:09:56 AM

Canoerebel

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11/20/42 - D+10, Operation Des Wallace

On the Gounrd: The Allies finally take Sibolga on a 4:1 attack that overcomes the two forts. A tough campaign that has left the new garrison low on supply, this was a critical gain. It closes either the back door or front door, depending on how you look at it. Near Langsa, 27th Div.'s attack comes off at 3:1, drops forts from 2 to 0, but fails to take the hex. It should fall tomorrow, and then over the next three or four days, three tank units and two infantry divisions will arrive (1st Marines, which is rather depleted, and 32nd, which is very fresh). Part of 58th RCT is air lifted to Singora, bolstering combined AV to about 50. I think an IJ fast transport invasion is approaching.

In the Air: A few Japanese attacks claim another xAK or two. Sabang airfield goes to 4.73, an increase of .27. This field should reach five day after tomorrow. 180 fighters - mainly P-40K and F4F-4 - based here.

At Sea: Enemy carriers, strength unkown, launch a small Kate raid that picks off a picket ship NW of Cocos Island. Allied BBs bombard Georgetown (and will continue to do so). Another bombardment TF to hit VP tonight. No sign of those "carrier" reported up near Rangoon yesterday.

Operation Des Wallace: All amphibious ships have reached port and unloaded - including that lonely, low-on-fuel TF that limped into Diego Garcia with three SBD squadrons. That said, and with Sibolga finally in Allied hands, the amphibious nature of this operation has concluded. This will now morph into a land campaign for Medan and a campaign by sea and air to protect the Allied position. Reinforcements are en route from India, including one carrying a large AA unit that will unload at Sabang tongiht.

Burma: Indications continue that Japan is mvoing back, though 18th Div. is still blocking the coastal road.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 1:18:42 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

On the Gounrd: The Allies finally take Sibolga on a 4:1 attack that overcomes the two forts. A tough campaign that has left the new garrison low on supply, this was a critical gain. It closes either the back door or front door, depending on how you look at it. Near Langsa, 27th Div.'s attack comes off at 3:1, drops forts from 2 to 0, but fails to take the hex. It should fall tomorrow, and then over the next three or four days, three tank units and two infantry divisions will arrive (1st Marines, which is rather depleted, and 32nd, which is very fresh). Part of 58th RCT is air lifted to Singora, bolstering combined AV to about 50. I think an IJ fast transport invasion is approaching.

good shooting Tex! Now get support and supply flowing. you have an endless supply of xAK's . don't be afraid to send single ons loaded with supplies to the garrisons. some will get through. How are you fixed for engineers. AAA and base forces in Malaysia? Build, build, build!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 2:20:04 PM

Canoerebel

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Sabang is flush with everything, including base forces, engineers and xAKs.

The Malay Peninsula has nothing except infantry and armor. I have big decisions to make in the next few days. Do I limit Malaya to blocking positions, basically only reinforcing with supply, or do I commit additional troops in an effort to establish an indefinite lodgement? I can make good arguments both ways, but in part this decision will be influenced by whether the Indian division makes it to Sabang in the next five days or so. If so, I have a cushion to play with. If not, I probably don't.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 7/2/2013 2:21:00 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 2:25:13 PM

paullus99

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Definitely time to get a pipeline of reinforcements and supply moving in the appropriate directions - of course, pushing hard in Burma is going to keep John looking over his shoulder.

Forcing him into a land campaign is such a good move on your part - as it neutralizes many of the advantages that Japan has in this particular scenario (geared towards fighting the island-hopping campaign in the Pacific).

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 2:40:40 PM

Canoerebel

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I concur. Thinking back over the past four months, the Allies are very fortunate that the Aluetians Campaign (Just in Time Reinforcements, Part I) and the New Guinea Campaign (Just in Time Reinforcements, Part II) led to the Sumatra campaign. Of the three, the latter definitely offers the most bang for the buck. Sumatra is as strategically significant as the western Aleutians - perhaps moreso - but also offers the advantage of pocketing an IJ army (and a bunch of ships too, it turns out) in Burma.

In the summer, I went through the experience of successfully invading the Gilberts only to be thrown out (that was okay, from my point of view, because it freed up the Ramree Island operation for success). The coming battle with be vastly bigger with vastly more at stake, and this time both sides are compelled to fight.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 3:04:28 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

The Malay Peninsula has nothing except infantry and armor. I have big decisions to make in the next few days. Do I limit Malaya to blocking positions, basically only reinforcing with supply, or do I commit additional troops in an effort to establish an indefinite lodgement?

Errrr....are you sure you don't want to edit this statement before Nemo logs on?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 3:15:03 PM

paullus99

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Jeez CR - continue to go big or go home...that's what Nemo is going to say.....

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 3:26:06 PM

Canoerebel

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There's a reasonable chance (one that I'm still evaulating) that Malaysia, which it turns out was wide open, needed my full attention and concentration from before D-Day; that trying to cobble together an effort on D+2 or D+4 or now is too late; that John has had too much time to work out potential solutions to his problems; that the Allies can feed in additional reinforcements that will delay Japan but likely will not result in a longterm lodgement on the peninsula; and that the Allies can weaken themselves fatally in Sumatra if I try to "rob Peter to pay Paul" or "dilute my main thrust."

IE, there's no question that Nemo Vision was right on, but it took somebody with his vision and foreplanning to execute the move to it's fullest extent. My vision was more limited, so it might be counterproductive to try to adapt to Nemo Vision now. I'm still evaluating this - I'm air transporting in reinforcements, bringing in supply by APD, and looking at the possibility of inserting the Indian division upon arrival at Sabang. I'll know more in the next couple of days.

Many factors will influence this. For instance, if the Allies win a big carrier battle (hey, I can hope!), then the Malaya Peninsula becomes an obvious fullscale target.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 7/2/2013 3:27:26 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 3:40:10 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
The Malay Peninsula has nothing except infantry and armor. I have big decisions to make in the next few days. Do I limit Malaya to blocking positions, basically only reinforcing with supply, or do I commit additional troops in an effort to establish an indefinite lodgement?

You're kidding, right?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 3:47:17 PM

Lomri

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Alor Star and Singora are just excellent bases to have. Your Sumatra bases keep the back door open (not without some challenges of course). Personally I think you need to exploit Malaysia. Your opponents eye will be drawn towards where you are advancing. By pushing Malaysia you make Sumatra a backwater, something you can clean up at your liesure.

Alor Star and Singora are good defensive hexes. Built forts there. The roads in this area suck so unless you own the rail heads you aren't going anywhere quickly over land. You should be planning on amph landings to cut him off if he does march units to contest these bases. Smaller scale, but for example, if he marches out of George Town to contest Alor Star, you can land on that clear hex and clear it rapidly.

What I don't understand is the idea of needing to dunkirk Burma. Perhaps not getting this invalidates my previous advice. But he can march from Tavoy to Bangkok easily enough with heavy equipment. Plenty of choke points he can use as rear guards too. Sure, it takes about a week to march from Tavoy to Bangkok but still...

What I like best about your position is that from your AAR (I don't read the other side) it really feels like John thinks he is going to win this one with KB. That's how I take his comment about freebies - he'll have KB in theatre soon and everything will change. But KB isn't going to sail into Sabang and flip it back to Japan. Good luck putting that genie back in the bottle!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 3:54:40 PM

Canoerebel

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Seriously.

The coming carrier clash could go either way, right? I mean, the Allied carriers could react, get dispersed, and could lose ugly. Bad ugly. Ugly to the point that John's carriers and combat ships achieve control of the sea lanes. Control such that he can interdict all supply and reinforcement efforts into the distant future.

That's my nightmare scenario. If that happens, the Allied lodgement in Malaya isn't going to have an indefinite shelf life, so the Allied position in Sumatra had better be rock solid.

If, on the other hand, Japan loses a carrier battle - or it is a draw - then the Allies can remain more aggressive.

If the Joint Chiefs see it differently, they need to persuade Admiral King to remove me from command!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 3:57:28 PM

paullus99

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CR needs a large enough lodgement to continue to funnel in troops & ultimately airpower that will make John's entire position in both SE Asia & a significant part of the DEI completely untenable...it won't happen overnight, but once large numbers of 4Es become available, everything within range is going to be toast.

I'm sure John knows this & will fight tooth and nail (and try to kill as many ships as he can) but he's fighting an uphill battle against an opponent that has the initiative - every other time he's managed to inflict crippling losses on the allies, he's done it because he knew they were coming & he was prepared - he is facing the exact opposite situation right now.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/2/2013 4:05:30 PM

pws1225

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I think I'll just hang out here for a while and wait until Nemo drops by. The subsequant 'discussion' just might make a carrier clash seem tame.

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