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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 2:18:51 AM   
princep01

 

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From: Texas
Status: offline 		So, he does deep battle against New Zealand on the east and Perth on the west, isolates Oz, and then moves against Oz itself.  Maybe...that would seem to be his playing style.  All those subs parked off Kiwiland....is he doing the same over at Perth?

Nice shot by the S-boat.  That is one of the 4 older CAs and there is a chance it will not survive the trip to a safe harbor.  Hope it flounders.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 2:15:38 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

So, he does deep battle against New Zealand on the east and Perth on the west, isolates Oz, and then moves against Oz itself.  Maybe...that would seem to be his playing style.  All those subs parked off Kiwiland....is he doing the same over at Perth?


Style, smyle.

It's freakin' January 1942! So he "isolates" (huh? It's a darn big CONTINENT), Oz. So what? He has a myriad of undone tasks all over the map and the amphib bonus burning up daily. He's putting awnings on the windows while the foundation is leaking like a sieve. CR should ENCOURAGE such adventuring. Get out of his way, let him rampage 4000 miles from his logistics. Go nuts, Japan. Enjoy.

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The Moose

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Post #: 242
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 2:40:31 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
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Status: offline 		John is probably trying to goad Canoe into some kind of early offensive operation, then he can bring down the hammer & attempt to crush the allied position - given his history / other games, he plays for the kill (letting the allies come to him & mount a massive counterattack).

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Post #: 243
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 2:46:20 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

John is probably trying to goad Canoe into some kind of early offensive operation, then he can bring down the hammer & attempt to crush the allied position - given his history / other games, he plays for the kill (letting the allies come to him & mount a massive counterattack).


Yeah, and I want a pony.

Ain't CR's first rodeo.

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The Moose

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Post #: 244
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 3:18:33 PM   
paullus99


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Status: offline 		I know - Canoe is too smart for that, of course, but it seems to be what John plays for - any situation where he can bring in lots of CVs, lots of air & lots of troops in one fell swoop.

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Post #: 245
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 4:24:56 PM   
Canoerebel


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Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		John has done a pretty good job of attending to the DEI, which is really Job One for Japan.  I give him exemplary marks for pushing so hard and fast that he just overwhelmed my efforts to attend to Cocos Island and Java with any semblance of a defense.  However, by moving so fast, he has some catching up to do - Singapore is going to take him some time and even Clark Field will require work.  Plus, he has to mop up places like Kendari and Makassar even while he is probably organizing his deep thrust.  This will probably target Oz, though India may be on the table.

I don't know yet whether John will seriously expend energy in SoPac (New Caledonia, Fiji, New Zealand, etc.) but I agree that that is just a huge waste of time and assets.  Every second the KB is tooling around between Noumea and Aukland is just a gift to me.

Meanwhile, all the subs that John had committed to West Coast early on have disappeared and he is not attendign to the Aleutians - no patrol planes and no serious carrier deterent.  So the Allies are almost certain to make a serious move in the Aluetians within six weeks.  That will hopefully be in time to then permit me to shift my carriers south to support Oz in the coming storm.

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Post #: 246
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 4:29:43 PM   
GreyJoy


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Status: offline 		Think it's really too early to say where John may be moving when phase I is over. As Dan said, he still has a lot of work to do in PI-DEI-SRA before he can move really forward

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Post #: 247
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 4:32:23 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

So, he does deep battle against New Zealand on the east and Perth on the west, isolates Oz, and then moves against Oz itself.  Maybe...that would seem to be his playing style.  All those subs parked off Kiwiland....is he doing the same over at Perth?


Style, smyle.

It's freakin' January 1942! So he "isolates" (huh? It's a darn big CONTINENT), Oz. So what? He has a myriad of undone tasks all over the map and the amphib bonus burning up daily. He's putting awnings on the windows while the foundation is leaking like a sieve. CR should ENCOURAGE such adventuring. Get out of his way, let him rampage 4000 miles from his logistics. Go nuts, Japan. Enjoy.


It's 'style, schmyle', moose.

Ordinarily, I try not to agree with the moose on general principle, but he's got this one. Early uber-aggressive (take it for the sake of taking it with no heed to consolidation) Japanese players really are asking for their necks to be cut off at the base. John has done this before, to his detriment. He may say that he's not going to in the beginning-but a tiger can't change his stripes so easily.

Of course, this is in keeping with the spirit of the "Auto-vic or die trying" mentality. 99% of the time, they get the latter outcome.

CR's quote from once-upon-a-time about 'rocks rattling around in a can' (John's troops running around Central India on a pointless invasion late in the war) sums up this approach. John took great pride in putting a few divisions ashore and running around the Indian heartland. What did it accomplish? Nada. Zip-diddly. Bupkis. What it DID do is take several divisions of valuable LCUs that could be used in a defensive battle in Southeast Asia out of the picture.


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 4:35:49 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Singapore is going to take him some time and even Clark Field will require work.  Plus, he has to mop up places like Kendari and Makassar even while he is probably organizing his deep thrust. 


Just Singapore and Clark Field remain to be neutralized? Those are "enemy numbers 1 and 2" in the JFB book. What about Java? Palembang? Balikpapan? If he's not attending to these in order of importance, then he's not taking care of business in the DEI.

Cocos island? Who cares?

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 1/9/2013 4:36:05 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 4:38:40 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		He's already taken Palembang and Balikpapan.  About all that remains is the eastern half of Java, Singapore, and Clark Field.

Cocos can be hugely important and can make sense from a Japanese standpoint.  If Japan springs forward to neutralize that potential thorn-in-the-side and then promptly and efficiently backfills by taking everything else, that's a good strategy.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 4:40:23 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
and then promptly and efficiently backfills by taking everything else


Remains to be seen if this is his tact here. I'd wager 'no', based upon his previous behavior.

As for the primacy of Cocos island. I submit that detailing its capture ranks very low on the Japanese player's lists of early 'must take' objectives. How is it any different than Midway in the Pacific?

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 1/9/2013 4:41:24 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 4:43:43 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

He's already taken Palembang and Balikpapan.  About all that remains is the eastern half of Java, Singapore, and Clark Field.

Cocos can be hugely important and can make sense from a Japanese standpoint.  If Japan springs forward to neutralize that potential thorn-in-the-side and then promptly and efficiently backfills by taking everything else, that's a good strategy.


I agree. I didn't take Cocos early on in my game against QBall and now, in early 1943, it's a torn in my side. 4Es from there can bomb Singapore, Palembang, Batavia, Sosarbaja etc and PBYs can sneak everywhere in DEI waters... he did the right thing imho! In my next game i'll do exactly the same!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 4:45:20 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
and then promptly and efficiently backfills by taking everything else


Remains to be seen if this is his tact here. I'd wager 'no', based upon his previous behavior.

As for the primacy of Cocos island. I submit that detailing its capture ranks very low on the Japanese player's lists of early 'must take' objectives. How is it any different than Midway in the Pacific?



With Cocos you controll the routes in I.O.
If it's in Japs' hands, it doesn't have a particular value. But in allied hands it can really become a nail in japanese left flank

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 4:54:57 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

He's already taken Palembang and Balikpapan.  About all that remains is the eastern half of Java, Singapore, and Clark Field.

Cocos can be hugely important and can make sense from a Japanese standpoint.  If Japan springs forward to neutralize that potential thorn-in-the-side and then promptly and efficiently backfills by taking everything else, that's a good strategy.


I agree. I didn't take Cocos early on in my game against QBall and now, in early 1943, it's a torn in my side. 4Es from there can bomb Singapore, Palembang, Batavia, Sosarbaja etc and PBYs can sneak everywhere in DEI waters... he did the right thing imho! In my next game i'll do exactly the same!

Surely not at the expense of letting bastions like Singapore, Clark, etc. continue to exist? You can't focus your primary objective (by definition) on more than one ancillary / supplementary goal. So John took Cocos (wiping out that Brigade *was* sweet), but Singapore still stands? What if this is the status quo in March? April? May? Will this still be judged a success? I still argue no-first things first.


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 5:19:45 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		I consider Midway pretty important compared to most players (judging by some back-and-forth in one of my AARs a few years ago), but Cocos is far more important.  Cocos is close to the Japanese heart.  Midway is close to nothing.  With Cocos in Allied hands it is possible to engage in lots of long range patrols and recon (which can be the real thing or a deception) plus it's much easier to unleash a big amphibious assault on the DEI.  With Cocos in Japanese hands, the threat to the DEI in 1943 is seriously reduced.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 6:29:29 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Status: offline 		1/24/42 and 1/25/42
 
NoPac:  The Allies are almost certain to engage in an early counteroffensive in the Aleutians.  Umnak and Adak, which are in enemy hands, are likely targets.  Under this scenario, the Allies would also strongly garrison Cold Bay.  Amphibious assaults would take place in early March.  Reinforcing Cold Bay, Dutch Harbor and Kodiak will take place immediately.

Political Points:  The Allies have 900 in the bank.  The highest priority is to release 27/B and 27/C Div. at Los Angeles for transport to Oz, though I have a good ten days before QE will make it back to LA from Melbourne.  The second highest priority is buying several RCT to be used in the Aleutians.

Pacific and Oz:  The KB is just of New Zealand's tip.  John may be imposing a blockade of sorts on Oz.

Singapore:  John did a very ill-conceived deliberate attack at Singapore, losing (as in "destroyed") 200 of his own squads.  Imperial Guards is trashed.  Two other divisions are very weak.  Singers still has 38k supply, so John is probably looking at four-week seige at a minimum.

India:  Most of an Aussie division just arrived at Aden and will report to Karachi, though I'm considering other uses ranging from Oz to garrisoning some islands south of India.





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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 6:56:02 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Singapore:  John did a very ill-conceived deliberate attack at Singapore, losing (as in "destroyed") 200 of his own squads.  Imperial Guards is trashed.  Two other divisions are very weak.  Singers still has 38k supply, so John is probably looking at four-week seige at a minimum.



What's your supply and forts looking like here?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 7:05:22 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		Singapore has 38k supply, one fort (John's been bombing it every day since just after the war commenced) and about 800 AV (down from 1000 before the attacks commenced.  John has three divisions there.  Imperial Guards is trashed.  The other two have consistently shown about 300 to 350 AV since they crossed the causeway.  John's going to have to bring in reinforcement and increase the bombing raids if he wants to take this base in less than a month.

My biggest quandary there has been whether to spend the 150 PP to replace Percival.  I elected not to do so several weeks ago, but the recent failed IJA attacks might change the equation.  Doing so is worthwhile if it buys a few weeks.  There is a chance that is possible since I still have a decent level of supply.  John probably won't attack again for at least a week, so I have some time to think it through.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 8:34:04 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

John probably won't attack again for at least a week, so I have some time to think it through.


A thought -- if you have a little time, would it be worthwhile to quickly transfer in some fighters to interfere with his bombing raids?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 9:10:01 PM   
JeffroK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I consider Midway pretty important compared to most players (judging by some back-and-forth in one of my AARs a few years ago), but Cocos is far more important.  Cocos is close to the Japanese heart.  Midway is close to nothing.  With Cocos in Allied hands it is possible to engage in lots of long range patrols and recon (which can be the real thing or a deception) plus it's much easier to unleash a big amphibious assault on the DEI.  With Cocos in Japanese hands, the threat to the DEI in 1943 is seriously reduced.


IMVHO both fit a category of denying something from your enemy.

I dont think Midway gives much to the AFB, but the JFB can build it into an annoying air and sub base.

Cocos does nothing for the JFB, but is a good base from which the AFB can hit some important bases and force a garrison of an often lightly held area.

I dont think holding either is a war breaker.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2013 10:40:05 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		1/26/42 and 1/27/42
 
NoPac:  An RCT and a base force at Seattle are loading for Cold Bay.  It is early for the Allies to get ambitious in this region, but I know the Japanese carriers are far away.  The Allies have time to reinforce key areas in ways that will make rear areas more secure.  By the time John could shift focus to attend to NoPac, he'll have to assume that many of they key bases are strongly garrisoned.  Finally, John and I have a very "rich" history in NoPac, so pushing a few buttons here could pay big dividends.

Pacific:  The KB raided the harbor at Auckland, doing light damage to several transports.  This is an extravagant use of a strategic asset.  I can't envision any scenario where this would be worthwhile, and the only one that makes even minimal sense is if John intends to isolate and invade Oz.

DEI:  I consolidate units to create 11th Indian Division at Singapore and ended up with a commander with a rating of 20!  It cost 50 PP to replace him!  Ouch!  I switched replacements on for that unit and on Aussie unit, hoping to augment my force a bit.

India:  American units - especially aircraft - are beginning to arrive at Capetown.  The Allid position in India will be considerably stronger in about a month.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/10/2013 9:50:36 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		1/28/42
 
NoPac:  The Cold Bay occupation troops departed Seattle last night.  The American carriers will follow tonight, providing close cover for the operation (though I'll do my best to keep them concealed).

Pacific:  The KB is SW of Auckland now - closer to Wellington.  Kates sortied and damaged an xAK and a coastal auxilliary ship.  Even if this use of the KB dovetails with a magnificent plan, the extravagance is breathtaking.

Magnicent Plan?:  This only makes sense if John is going all out for Oz.  This early in the game, Oz is of course vulnerable since I haven't had time to get reinforcements there.  So I'll sweat even as I attend to matters as best I can.

DEI:  Quiet at the moment.

India:  The Allies are busy attending in small but important ways to Socatra and the mod-map base to the west.  I have about 50 AV at Socatra and about 15 at the other base.  That's enough to get some fort building going and to reinforce efficiently in the unlikely event John moves on India in a big way.  Diego Garcia has 320 AV, which includes 18th UK Div., which is building steadily after the loss of two brigades (one at Cocos and the other aboard ship that was arriving at Cocos:  this all happened a few weeks ago).

China:  Two more unproductive Chinese shock attacks cost John some squads destroyed.  He's making a move on Chengte, but I think I have enough in place to block him.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/11/2013 4:42:03 AM   
crsutton


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Status: offline 		I sort of envy you CR. I have got over 1,000 turns done in what had been a great and exciting game. But for me there was no better time in the game for me than 3/42 through the end of the year. It is the time when the peril for the Allies was great and demanded my best play with full concentration. During this period, I went to bed every night thinking about every move I made and was going to make the next day. Now, I got more planes and ship than I know what to do with and although the game is still fun, it is not near as fun as those dark days of 42.

John is a good aggressive player. He will make you sweat it out.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/11/2013 3:02:02 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Status: offline 		1/29/42
 
NoPac:  The American carriers put to sea to cover the Cold Bay reinforcement mission.  Another infantry unit will likely be brought forward to occupy a more forward island (one currently not occupied).  Since the bulk of the enemy carriers are known to be far away, this should be a low risk operation.

Pacific:  The KB is off New Zealand's north cape and has hit Auckland three days running.  QE will pass NZ's south cape tomorrow, so I have to take stock of the situation over the next three days until she is well past the danger zone.

SEAC:  Rangoon falls to a small IJA force (John crowed over this a bit in an email message; I did not succumb to the temptation to reply:  "Hey, Rangoon's been held by a tiny militia force into late January!"

China:  A rare quiet day as John doesn't test the MLR.  But new tests will come soon.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/11/2013 6:05:43 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		The situation in NoPac and the operational plan.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/11/2013 6:07:27 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/11/2013 6:16:51 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		The KB's current position new New Zealand. Is this part of a masterful plan or is it an extravagant use of a strategic asset? Time will tell.




Attachment (1)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/11/2013 7:20:24 PM   
obvert


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quote:

The KB's current position new New Zealand. Is this part of a masterful plan or is it an extravagant use of a strategic asset? Time will tell.


If he knew you had assets there that were valuable enough to justify it, fine. But a few transports is certainly not worth it.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/11/2013 7:30:52 PM   
paullus99


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Status: offline 		He's being very obvious about his intentions by committing the KB in an area that he knows will draw your attention (or at least do some damage if you had significant assets in the region).

That alone makes it suspect.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/11/2013 8:00:30 PM   
Cribtop


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Status: offline 		Either a misallocation of resources in the form of an overkill feint or the opening salvo of a move to isolate Oz, perhaps via the rather odd vehicle of an invasion of New Zealand itself.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/11/2013 8:19:53 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		An invasion of New Zealand would be a gift beyond measure.  New Zealand is about as strategically important as the Solomon Islands, but the release of troops would be most welcome in Oz or India.

I'm not saying there's no way to make trouble for the Allies.  There certainly are, and Oz is a prime candidate (as we all know).  But my suspicion is that having the KB loiter around New Zealand will not prove a productive use of that asset in hindsight.

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