Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I suppose a case could be made that a hundred years ago large numbers of blacks in front line roles in the US army might have undermined the confidence of white male soldiers who happened to adhere to the racial stereotypes of their time. I'm sure if we backpeddled a dozen decades there would be plenty of flak about allowing blacks to serve frontline status and all sorts of anecdotal evidence might be cited to reinforce this belief. I just wonder if this issue with women in combat is not another case of cultural prejudices getting in the way of the advancement of minority rights.

Sup Gary, how's everything been? ……hope all is well as it is here !

That has to be your all-time” race card” record, I dont get your correlation/metal gymnastics and i'm not so sure you even get it , but thumps up on the Triple Lindy ….

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner


There are no differences between Irish, Italian, or black men in performing combat soldiering duties. There are definite differences between men and women.

RR

quote:

People like Wilson and Margret Sanger directed policy, against blacks, based upon the theories of Darwin, Freud, and Marx. We would not have had "white's only" water fountains and restaurants had it not be for the Presidential edicts of Wilson.

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski
And don't forget Sanger was a committed person of the (D) party. A Libtard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn
so why not female infantry commanders.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

What we are witnessing is the pansiefication of the american male
If women are our total equals why then are the olympics devided into male and female categories?
These same creatures that we open doors for,stand up for if were sitting and they approuched
we're now going to throw a weapon and tell them"stand too soldier and act like a man"
Yea thats real lady-like behavior!But i forget we men want our women to be more like men and we be metrosexual
a kinder gentler WIMP!

Honestly, we're talking about a small minority of women here who want the right to qualify for combat roles. I think you can rest assured that there will be plenty of us around who still want to have doors opened for us and other courtesies.

I don't want all men to become WIMPs but I also have no problem with the minority that are kinder and gentler. It takes all kinds of people to make a world and we need to respect everyone's right to be their own person. All gender attributes, both physical and mental reside on a wide spectrum between very masculine to very feminine. Males and females come down all over that spectrum... strong, masculine women and weak, effeminate males. We've all known people who deviate from the average male and female roles. There are strong women out there who will make great soldiers, just as there are weak males who have no business being anywhere close to combat.

I'll stand by my prediction that five years from now this will be a forgotten issue. It will work for some women and not for others. Standards will be adjusted as appropriate based upon experience with women in combat. We may very well discover that women make a significant contribution based on their gender differences and not despite them. If women are better shots as Gunny suggested, perhaps they will make excellent snipers. I've already suggested that women may be stealthier for infiltration and recon. We won't know till we try it.

Just as an aside, I watched "The Front Line" for the 2nd time last night and reflected on this discussion as the North Korean female sniper "2 second" killed one man after another. She wasn't carrying a 65 pound pack either, just her rifle and a rucksack. I would suggest that a woman in a combat unit doesn't necessarily have to carry the same load as the men as long as she has skills that compensate. For example, being able to act as a translator, special weapon skills, or maybe just being really, smart, or a natural leader.

It will be interesting whatever happens. I still say let's meet back here in five years and evaluate. In the meantime, the world isn't going to come to an end if some women get a combat MOS or even end up being a company commander (or higher). We have women commanding fighter squadrons now, so why not female infantry commanders. We can also discuss whether the Army collapsed due to the repeal of DADT (another hot button issue).

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn
Honestly, we're talking about a small minority of women here who want the right to qualify for combat roles.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Women are going to be moved wholesale into infantry units just like the men.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski
And don't forget Sanger was a committed person of the (D) party. A Libtard.

And, a Fabian Socialist who thought abortion should be legal up to the age of two years old.

RR

quote:

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Women are going to be moved wholesale into infantry units just like the men.

I don't see this happening at all. Things would have to get really bad for that to happen. Like maybe an alien invasion or something. lol

The most I think we'll see is women as tankers, snipers, medics, chopper pilots, Artillery, Drones pilots, and frontline HQ staff and support units. The Army may come out with one experimental Amazon Battalion just to see how it would work out, but that would be about it. I think most of you are overreacting.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Women are going to be moved wholesale into infantry units just like the men.

I don't see this happening at all. Things would have to get really bad for that to happen. Like maybe an alien invasion or something. lol

The most I think we'll see is women as tankers, snipers, medics, chopper pilots, Artillery, Drones pilots, and frontline HQ staff and support units. The Army may come out with one experimental Amazon Battalion just to see how it would work out, but that would be about it. I think most of you are overreacting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

EisenHammer, YOU are over doing it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Women as chopper pilots.... oh well made me laugh

quote:

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Women as chopper pilots.... oh well made me laugh

Why that… women suck as helicopter pilots?

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Women as chopper pilots.... oh well made me laugh

Why that… women suck as helicopter pilots?

warspite1

Fnaar Fnaar - he said chopper (sniggers)

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

quote:

People like Wilson and Margret Sanger directed policy, against blacks, based upon the theories of Darwin, Freud, and Marx. We would not have had "white's only" water fountains and restaurants had it not be for the Presidential edicts of Wilson.

And don't forget Sanger was a committed person of the (D) party. A Libtard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Women are going to be moved wholesale into infantry units just like the men.

I don't see this happening at all. Things would have to get really bad for that to happen. Like maybe an alien invasion or something. lol

The most I think we'll see is women as tankers, snipers, medics, chopper pilots, Artillery, Drones pilots, and frontline HQ staff and support units. The Army may come out with one experimental Amazon Battalion just to see how it would work out, but that would be about it. I think most of you are overreacting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mullk

As was pointed out earlier woman must be moved wholesale into combat if allowed. If they were allowed to only enter combat roles if they felt like it, it will create incredible morale issues if men must go and woman only go if they feel like it. I know some will not like this, but the military will look to fill body bag with woman to show how integrated they are so they can't be accused of keeping woman out of combat. I personally witnessed things done in the Air Force that were horrible in regards to woman in service/battle but no one dared to say a thing due to the fear of public perception of the service (perception is more important than facts). Even the topic was forbidden except to say how wonderful it was. Any comment even privately to the contrary of current political correctness in the military was a carer ender. At some point when they run out of volunteers to combat roles they will have to start assigning troops, men and woman.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Don't forget that when she lived the Democratic party was violently racist, enforcers of Jim Crow in the Solid South. But don't let history get in the way of your "views."

quote:

ORIGINAL: mullk

As was pointed out earlier woman must be moved wholesale into combat if allowed. If they were allowed to only enter combat roles if they felt like it, it will create incredible morale issues if men must go and woman only go if they feel like it. I know some will not like this, but the military will look to fill body bag with woman to show how integrated they are so they can't be accused of keeping woman out of combat. I personally witnessed things done in the Air Force that were horrible in regards to woman in service/battle but no one dared to say a thing due to the fear of public perception of the service (perception is more important than facts). Even the topic was forbidden except to say how wonderful it was. Any comment even privately to the contrary of current political correctness in the military was a carer ender. At some point when they run out of volunteers to combat roles they will have to start assigning troops, men and woman.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Don't forget that when she lived the Democratic party was violently racist, enforcers of Jim Crow in the Solid South. But don't let history get in the way of your "views."

And how exactly has anything changed. Keeping people stuck in poverty dependant on a welfare state and keeping the education system that could help them break out of the poverty cycle firmly in the hands of self serving (read arm of the democratic party) unions for the past 50 years has done nothing to help those trapped in poverty. Nothing has changed in the inner cities of the US even though they have been staunchly democrat for half a century or more. So in my view keeping a specific voter block totally dependent on you via welfare benefits to guarantee your power base is just as violently racist as they've ever been. More subtle sure, but just as racist.

It's a fact, if the inner cities were able to break the welfare cycle and get ahead in life outside the dependencies of government programs, the democratic party would cease to exist, so they have a vested interest in keeping their voter blocks stuck in poverty so they depend on government. Historical precedent shows they do nothing 'real' to help benefit the poverty stricken in America. What they actually do when in control is create more government programs that keep those same people dependant on government to guarantee voter turnouts that will re-elect them.

That's not to say the Republicans are any better. They serve the wealthiest interests in America. Political parties that actually care about the people haven't existed in America for a very long time. But as long as they can sell you a bill of goods that makes you believe your guys are the good guys and the other guys are the bad guys, things will never change. If you actually cared you'd look at your own party and criticize it, yelling at the other side will never do anything or bring about any real change. But start to hold your own guys feet to the fire will/should have dramatic effects.

A democracy can only really work for you if your vote is truly up for grabs. That's why I find it so sad that the poverty stricken have been so staunchly democrat for so long even with no real results ever happening that change things for them. Had they backed the other side now and again, I bet the democrat party would actually start to worry about making some real change/progress for their constituents. If you are not willing to switch your vote, then you have given up your only real leverage in the game. By keeping you hating the other guy, they've locked you in and basically neutered your voice.

Watch this old 20/20 show to get an idea of how bad the education system is. At around 10:00 listen to the guy running the private school in Oakland. His poor students outperform the kids from the rich hills area, so it isn't the economic class of the students that matters it's the failed education system the democrats keep pushing on the kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw

Jim

quote:


That's not to say the Republicans are any better. They serve the wealthiest interests in America.

quote:

When I was in Chicago, I hurried and opened a door for a lady entering a convenience store. She thanked me with a dirty look and said 'My arms aren't broken'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: t001001001

quote:

When I was in Chicago, I hurried and opened a door for a lady entering a convenience store. She thanked me with a dirty look and said 'My arms aren't broken'.

I was walking into the bank and some crazy chica shoved the door open and walked out. Bank windows are tinted I couldn't even see her let alone open the door for her. I walked in w/o having to touch the door. She angrily said: "you're welcome!" over her shoulder. gesh You can't win don't even try.


Women in front line fighting might have a psychological effect on the other side. Ppl don't like shooting other ppl, but nobody would shoot Mary Ann or Ginger.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I suppose a case could be made that a hundred years ago large numbers of blacks in front line roles in the US army might have undermined the confidence of white male soldiers who happened to adhere to the racial stereotypes of their time. I'm sure if we backpeddled a dozen decades there would be plenty of flak about allowing blacks to serve frontline status and all sorts of anecdotal evidence might be cited to reinforce this belief. I just wonder if this issue with women in combat is not another case of cultural prejudices getting in the way of the advancement of minority rights.

Sup Gary, how's everything been? ……hope all is well as it is here !

That has to be your all-time” race card” record, I dont get your correlation/metal gymnastics and i'm not so sure you even get it , but thumps up on the Triple Lindy ….

Sarge, I agree with you.
It is funny how some feel the need to throw the "race" hand grenade into a discussion of gender difference.
It also displays that Gary does not know real (true) history.
Blacks were integrated into the military after the Civil War (during for the North and almost during for the South). Up until the racist President Wilson decreed that Blacks needed to be segregated to coincide with his domestic agenda regarding blacks. Blacks were in segregated units until Patton included them in rifle platoons, as replacements, at the end of WWII.

People like Wilson and Margret Sanger directed policy, against blacks, based upon the theories of Darwin, Freud, and Marx. We would not have had "white's only" water fountains and restaurants had it not be for the Presidential edicts of Wilson.

I'm sure that Gary is intellectually stable enough to do some research that might change his viewpoints and keep him from throwing race into every discussion. Especially throwing in false information.
The earliest issues governing the black enrollment in the military was overcoming the inherent view of the regulars toward the black group. Maybe Gary can look up the reason the Black Jack Pershing was called "Black Jack"?
It was the same as when Irish and Italians joined. Especially at the time when signs like "no dogs or Irishmen allowed" and "without papers (wops) go home" were prevalent.
Wilson simply plugged his own brand of racism onto things.
Blacks fought in every War the US had from the Revolution forward. In WWI many US blacks joined French and British units to fight on the front lines. Some even were pilots (and aces). But, they were not allowed to fight in US front line units.

Americans surely are not taught this in our schools.

There are no differences between Irish, Italian, or black men in performing combat soldiering duties. There are definite differences between men and women.

RR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress
I don't think you've understood or even tried to understand the point I was making and I doubt trying to explain it further is going to do any good so I give up. You win. Congratulations on your scathing victory. I guess holding your hands over your ears and screaming "lalalalala" works afterall. Good job!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress
I don't think you've understood or even tried to understand the point I was making and I doubt trying to explain it further is going to do any good so I give up. You win. Congratulations on your scathing victory. I guess holding your hands over your ears and screaming "lalalalala" works afterall. Good job!

No I understand completely, you have no idea the two issues have zero in common and are truly taken back by the ignant folk that don’t find the racism in any given “cause”

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress
Of course. Two minority groups seeking equal rights against a bunch of conservative reactionaries can't possibly have anything in common. Acknowledging any common ground would bring up the inconvenient thought of, maybe, just maybe, we're wrong...again. No. You have a good point there. I don't know what I was thinking. Insanity on my part for sure...