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OT: question - 2/1/2013 10:13:37 PM

Footslogger

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I have heard that Poland was not an enemy of Germany. So, how were the relations between the two countries?

Was there any possibility that Poland and Germany would join forces against the USSR, if attacked?

This is a video that I found that gave me some ideas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z9CAHSRpNw

< Message edited by Footslogger -- 2/1/2013 10:53:34 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: OT: question - 2/2/2013 4:04:54 AM

turtlefang

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A very complicated question.

In general, the background between Poland and Germany wasn't that great.

Prussia (Germans) took parts of Poland during the partitions prior to WW1. And the Polish were regarded as more serfs than people. Then Germany lost part of what it regarded as thiers after WW1. German nationalist used that for building resentment. Poland regarded part of Czechoslovakia rightfully as thiers when the Germany occupied it. Germany didn't see it that way. And finally, Hitler regarded the slavs (most Poles and Russians) as untermenchen (sub-mans).

Just have a hard time seeing it. Poland and Germany in as war agreement just doesn't work for me.

(in reply to Footslogger)

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RE: OT: question - 2/2/2013 8:59:31 AM

PMCN

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In the time period where this may be possible (33-38) the soviet union wasn't really in any kind of shape to launch an invasion of western europe. Once the purges start even less so. But ignoring that and assuming that the soviets launched an attack on poland, there is actually a very good chance that Germany would "assist" them but at the same time Poland and France had a good diplomatic status and France and England were on good terms. It is a bit odd but you may have had the "allies" and the "axis" fighting against the "red horde." But you can be sure that hitler would have had a few "requests" and so on after they won...the odd border moved this way or that kind of thing. I'm never certain to what extent at this time point Hitler would let real politik rule over his racial agenda. Later in the war it was clear which was dominant but pre-war he may have been more interested in achieving his goals and worrying about the untermenchen later. But his real interest was in crushing communism and so I would think it likely (if I must admit rather mindbogglingly bizzare when considered in hind sight) he would have moved to "help" poland. I rather doubt he would have wanted the Russians closer to germany (without that treaty he made with them). And that treaty is pretty clear indication that at least up to 39-40 he was letting real politik play a major role in his foreign policy.

(in reply to turtlefang)

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OT: Heres another question - 2/3/2013 3:55:47 AM

Footslogger

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Had Hitler known that the invasion of the Pols would cause France and Britian to declare war, would he have gone through with it anyway?

(in reply to PMCN)

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RE: OT: Heres another question - 2/3/2013 7:00:06 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

Had Hitler known that the invasion of the Pols would cause France and Britian to declare war, would he have gone through with it anyway?

warspite1

Yes, having gone down the path he had, Hitler had no choice. He wanted Lebensraum in the East - Poland was in the way.

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(in reply to Footslogger)

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OT: Heres one more question - 2/5/2013 10:42:33 PM

Footslogger

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It would seem that Goebbels was the only 'voice of reason' that Hitler would listen to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAnXza6iyOQ

(in reply to warspite1)

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RE: OT: Heres one more question - 2/6/2013 7:33:08 AM

delatbabel

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It depends on whether you mean "Germany" or "Hitler".

Joe Average German (or Karl Mittelwert Deutsche) couldn't give a toss about Poland. Most of the population of West Prussia, that part of Prussia ceded to Poland after WWI was not ethnically German, whereas the population of East Prussia had an ethnic German majority (as did the Sudetenland). Most Germans wanted land access to East Prussia -- these days it would have been solved by building some kind of 8 lane superhighway with truck stops et al, but it wasn't a high priority issue.

German nationalists, stirred up by Hitler, definitely wanted all of Prussia back. Along with the Sudetenland, chunks of Alsace/Lorraine and parts of southern Denmark. Sure, Hitler and the German nationalists regarded the slavs as untermenschen and the historical relationship between the teutonic tribes and the slavic tribes going back over a thousand years was one of master/slave race, but most Germans had gotten past that.

At a diplomatic level, tension existed between Poland and Germany over a number of issues wider than the Prussia/corridor issue, however there was German support for Poland in the resolution of the Poland/Lithuania dispute of 1938, and the Polish annexation of Bohumin in Czechoslovakia. So it's difficult to say whether Poland was or was not an enemy of Germany in 1939.

As a hypothetical answer to the second question, a Soviet/Lithuanian alliance existed since 1920, there was enmity between Poland and Lithuania and also between the USSR and Germany, and so if the Soviets invaded Poland on the pretence of assisting Lithuania, it may have been the case that Germany would have assisted Poland. However as others have pointed out, the USSR was in no state to do that.

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(in reply to Footslogger)

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RE: OT: Heres another question - 2/6/2013 8:35:43 AM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

Had Hitler known that the invasion of the Pols would cause France and Britian to declare war, would he have gone through with it anyway?

warspite1

Yes, having gone down the path he had, Hitler had no choice. He wanted Lebensraum in the East - Poland was in the way.

IIRC there is one amateur film by Eva Braun from Berghof from those last days of August 1939... in it Hitler was shown really furious when he got word about telegram by Chamberlain guaranteeing alliance to Poland...

Leo "Apollo11"

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(in reply to warspite1)

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RE: OT: Heres another question - 2/6/2013 2:03:48 PM

Robak

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There are some articles describing what if we could go to east with Nazis. But the questions is that in fact we would be dishonoured for many many years. Maybe then we could save a lot of human beings in our country and it wouldn't be a ruin after a war but cost was too high.
This topic hasn't been investigated until now by polish historians because it's very very delicate topic;)
Anyway for sure in my opinion Poland was an enemy of Nazis because Hitler itself said that Poland should never get Independence after Wersal Treaty.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 9

OT: One more question - 2/7/2013 11:15:20 PM

Footslogger

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Is this a good book about Herman Goering?

http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Goering/Morrow_jacket.html

(in reply to Robak)

Post #: 10