question pretty please

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

question pretty please

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> question pretty please

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

question pretty please - 2/17/2013 4:28:10 AM

Footslogger

Posts: 1232
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Washington USA
Status: offline

After Germany's surrender, how did the Russians treat the 'civillians'? Was there a mass exodus to the West before Stalin tightened his grip?

Post #: 1

RE: question pretty please - 2/17/2013 2:56:24 PM

turtlefang

Posts: 334
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline

You really have to talk about three periods.

1945-46 Even through Germany surrendered, the Russian really didn't have an effective local government system. It was brutal. Recent information indicates the local military basically did whatever it wanted to do and treated the civilians very badly. Widespread looting, rape, murder, confiscation of material but on an unorganized basis, with a lot of occupation troops disobeying orders unless under direct oversight. A lot of the reports from this time that have come to light talk about the Soviet displine in regards to the German people simply "not existing and, short of firing on our own troops, no way to reestablish it."

1946-49 The Soviet Union organized systematic war reparations, demilitarazation, and transfer of selected scientist back to the USSR. In this time period the civilians were still in daily contact with the Soviet occupation troops, displine was good, a large number of people "disappeared", reports of widespread looting and rape continued plus food shortages.

1950 on Soviet occupation troops were confined to thier barracks. The GDR was established and rearmed. Local rule was the USSR direction become the norm.

The Russians in Germany: A History of the Soviet Zone of Occupation, 1945-1949
Norman M. Naimark is a good source as he is using source documents from the communist party during this time that have been recently uncovered.
He's caused a lot of issues to be relooked at with the information.

(in reply to Footslogger)

Post #: 2

RE: question pretty please - 2/18/2013 7:25:59 AM

Tone

Posts: 161
Joined: 9/2/2009
From: Around The Sun
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

After Germany's surrender, how did the Russians treat the 'civillians'? Was there a mass exodus to the West before Stalin tightened his grip?

I think that the exodus was other way around, from west to Soviet east. Because most German civilians wanted to be part of the great Soviet proletarian, and live happily ever after.

_____________________________

Both the victor
and the vanquished are
but drops of dew,
but bolts of lightning -
thus should we view the world.
�uchi Yoshitaka
1507-1551

(in reply to Footslogger)

Post #: 3

RE: question pretty please - 2/18/2013 3:54:34 PM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

I had a family member that worked for the West helping poeple get from the east to west from 45-52. Many of the poeple that disappearred in the east, reappearred in the west.

Borders were wide open from 45 to 47 if you had some cancer sticks, chocolate or a gift for someones girl.

48-51 the bribes got bigger :)

Many poeple crossed on Irans northern border until the nut jobs took power in 79.

He had many a tale to tell shortly before his death.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/18/2013 3:55:48 PM >

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Tone)

Post #: 4

another question - 2/20/2013 2:29:34 AM

Footslogger

Posts: 1232
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Washington USA
Status: offline

I found this 'gem' of a battle series made in Russia only two years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny_-e7cG6DY

After watching this epsiode, I can see that the Germans could of won the war if they captureed the caucasus. 70% supply of the oil used by the Russians.

(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 5

RE: another question - 2/20/2013 6:18:29 AM

Scook_99

Posts: 301
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline

2 parts though:

1) USA would have increased dramatically oil shipments to the USSR
2) USSR would destroy the facilities before giving them up to the Germans. The ability for Germany to take advantage of that oil hinges upon, a) repairing and building new facilities, and b) rolling stock of rail. a) would be problematical as the materiel to build such facilities were scarce in Europe, and rolling stock was rather busy already.

I doubt Germany would 'win' WWII even with capture of the Caucasus, but movement would probably grind down to resemble something like WWI. USA shipments would never be enough, and would forestall an invasion in France. Suing for peace may be more likely, if and only if the Nazi regime was removed from power. This would be a hugely entertaining scenario however, if you can get over the even more massive casualties this would cause.

The only way this works well is if Rommel can take Egypt and link up through Turkey with the Caucasus forces, and The Mediterranean becomes an Axis lake. Oh, the grandiose dreams! And yes, sometimes this is what I attempt playing a strategic game as Axis.

(in reply to Footslogger)

Post #: 6

RE: another question - 2/20/2013 3:05:43 PM

Maximeba

Posts: 174
Joined: 8/9/2009
From: Buffalo, NY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

I found this 'gem' of a battle series made in Russia only two years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny_-e7cG6DY

After watching this epsiode, I can see that the Germans could of won the war if they captureed the caucasus. 70% supply of the oil used by the Russians.

I'm not a historian, but the only way that Germany would have won the war would be to beat the US to the bomb. Which in itself is an interesting question. Would they have dropped the bomb in Europe?

_____________________________

Wes
Allies Forever

(in reply to Scook_99)

Post #: 7

RE: another question - 2/20/2013 4:04:31 PM

Bronze

Posts: 194
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

Yes they'd have dropped the bomb in europe.

(in reply to Maximeba)

Post #: 8

RE: another question - 2/20/2013 10:22:15 PM

sillyflower

Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline

On top of where I live probably

_____________________________

web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to Bronze)

Post #: 9

RE: another question - 2/24/2013 11:16:38 PM

Footslogger

Posts: 1232
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Washington USA
Status: offline

When did the tide turn against the Germans?

(in reply to sillyflower)

Post #: 10

RE: another question - 2/25/2013 2:07:13 AM

Michael T

Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline

quote:

When did the tide turn against the Germans?

When they elected Hitler.

_____________________________

(in reply to Footslogger)

Post #: 11

RE: another question - 2/25/2013 2:33:34 AM

Footslogger

Posts: 1232
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Washington USA
Status: offline

Because of Hitler, the Germans never had a chance in winning WW2?

(in reply to Michael T)

Post #: 12

RE: another question - 2/25/2013 4:05:22 AM

aspqrz02

Posts: 1024
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maximeba
I'm not a historian, but the only way that Germany would have won the war would be to beat the US to the bomb. Which in itself is an interesting question. Would they have dropped the bomb in Europe?

Your statement isn't 100% clear.

If you mean "Would the US have dropped the Bomb in Europe?"

Hell, yes.

The Manhattan Engineering District was signed into law on December 6 1941, the day before Pearl Harbour, and as a result of lobbying by scientists such as Einstein to develop an Atomic Weapon before the Germans did.

The B-29 was a FY40 project to allow a 2 ton bombload to be delivered to Europe from bases in the Continental US (which wouldn't have been enough for an A-Bomb).

The B-36 was a FY41 project to allow a 20 ton bombload to be delivered to Europe from bases in the Continental US ... which *would* have been enough (Yes, I know, the B-36 didn't enter service until after the war, but that was because the program was put on hold because of the surrender of Germany and the fact that the B-29 could be based close enough to Japan to do the dirty, noy because it *couldn't* have been ready earlier).

(NB: I have no idea, and online and printed sources are no help, either, whether either project could have actually met those design requests when they became operational, but those were the design parameters!)

The original plan for the deployment of the A-Bomb was to use it against European - German - targets and, years ago, I read somewhere that there was a list actually in existence ... one of the North German ports (Bremen/Bremerhaven? Hamburg?) and one or more of the Ruhr cities were specifically listed.

The unexpectedly early collapse of the Germans, or the unexpectedly longer development time of the Bomb (or, more likely, a combination of both) meant the Allies had the weapons on hand and the only enemy left was Japan ...

If you mean would the *Nazis* have dropped it on Europe ... no doubt at all, and without the least compunction.

However, *how* they would have delivered it is ... problematic.

The V-2 didn't have the payload (2 tons, IIRC, the first A Bombs were around 20 tons). None of the actual operational German Bomber or other aircraft had the payload over any realistic range.

They could have used it as an emplaced mine.

Or delivered it by Submarine. But the Happy Time for U-Boats was long past. The Allies were reading the German Naval codes (Enigma/Ultra) and the chances of the Bomb being successfully delivered anywhere across the Atlantic are ... small to nil ... they *might* havve got it close to one of the British ports (not London ... there's no way a U-Boat could have gotten up the Thames estuary close enough).

Ground emplaced mine is the most likely.

Phil

< Message edited by aspqrz -- 2/25/2013 4:10:26 AM >

_____________________________

Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon; Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
----------------------------------------------
Email: aspqrz@tpg.com.au

(in reply to Maximeba)

Post #: 13