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American Cruisers missing AA - 12/30/2002 12:52:12 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Hi,

I am about 30 days into scen. 17 as the Allied player. We have had one serious carrier fight with damage to both sides. American cruisers came out unscathed though. However, I now notice that all American cruisers are completely devoid of secondary AA armament- 40 mm, 20mm, 1.1 inch and 50 cal. Not out of ammo but missing the guns. They have been back to port and disbanded but still show the weapons as missing (red). Is this a bug?

The only heavy crusier that shows secondary AA armament is the HMAS Austraila. She has not been in a battle yet.

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Post #: 1
- 12/30/2002 1:07:54 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		Which version of the game are you playing? This sounds like a bug that was fixed early on.

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Put my faith in the people
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Post #: 2
Missing AAA - 12/30/2002 1:08:19 AM   
tanjman


Posts: 717
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: Griffin, GA
Status: offline 		crsutton,

What version of UV are you using? If its not 2.20 you need to upgrade. There was a bug/DB problem with USN Cruiser AAA somewhere around ver 1.30.

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Post #: 3
- 12/30/2002 1:18:27 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Well, looks like it is back. I am using the latest patch. 2.2

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

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Post #: 4
- 12/30/2002 1:58:02 AM   
SoulBlazer

 

Posts: 839
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Providence RI
Status: offline 		I thought that when a weapon was shown as red that means it's damaged?

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Post #: 5
- 12/30/2002 3:05:41 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		Did you start this game under a previous version and have now continued under v. 2.20?

If this doesn't help, I'm fresh out of suggestions (my suggestion barrel isn't very deep, obviously).

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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Post #: 6
- 12/30/2002 3:14:22 AM   
Finnegan

 

Posts: 316
Joined: 9/19/2001
From: Ohio
Status: offline 		I had the same problem after it was fixed the first time. I re-installed and updated using true-update and that cured the problem.

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Post #: 7
- 12/30/2002 4:57:29 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		We started the game about 30 days ago in the older but current patch. Since then I have updated twice.

Yes, damaged weapons will show up in red. That is my problem. However the cruisers have not be hit and all of the light AA weapons are showing up as damaged on all my American heavy cruisers.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 8
- 12/30/2002 6:12:32 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		My guess is that you've got to start fresh in the latest version. You even might have to uninstall and reinstall and re-patch in order to be sure that you don't have latent aberrations. I have had to do this twice when new patches have come out, and happy camper that I usually am, I have not been a happy camper. The explanation from Matrix in the patch history concerning the related bug that was fixed is that the problem arose because the specific ship numbers did not match the ship class configuration, so the code went "Urk-Urk" and reflected everything that didn't make sense as damaged.

When you consider that this game has been patched nine times (1.1, 1.11, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 2.0, 2.10, 2.11, and 2.20) in the eight months of its existence, you've got to be a lucky man, indeed, ever to have finished a PBEM game of any length if you install the latest patch and cross your fingers in hope that your ongoing game will play properly.

It's been a big pain in the butt, but I hope that the frequency of patches will subside for awhile so that we can all log some quality time playing - AND ENJOYING - this excellent game. I know that several people are already clamoring for the next patch on the basis of this or that perceived need for improvement, but I am taking the anti-patch position for now.

Oh - did I forget to mention my obligatory gratefulness for Matrix's excellent support of this product?

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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Post #: 9
Me Too - 1/5/2003 1:29:39 PM   
Black Cat

 

Posts: 615
Joined: 7/4/2002
Status: offline 		Just did a fresh install after being away a long while to see how it was going, downloaded and installed each Patch starting with 2.0 , ( not using true update ) rebooting between them and I get the exact same problems with both AA, secondary and torps & depth charges on both Cruisers & DD`s.

This is with my Scenario # 25 Midway Historical, available from Spooky`s UV Site..

This is really disappointing, it seems No Matter How Much Things Change With UV It Always Remains The Same.... Broken :(

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 10
- 1/5/2003 2:25:58 PM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		Don't pick on UV.

This scenario was created a long time ago under an early version of the game (and was not sanctioned or reviewed by Matrix/2by3). The problem is embedded in the same way I described previously. The ship class data don't match the specific ship data, so the program doesn't know what to do but reflect the gun positions as "damaged." Play the scenarios Matrix provided, and play them in the most current version of the game, and you should have no problem.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 11
Response... - 1/5/2003 2:53:46 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Black Cat,

Pasternakski nailed it - you're using a user-made scenario from an earlier version, most likely a very specific single version that had the problem. We can't update scenarios we didn't make, although the user is welcome to re-mod them from the latest version. If you try any of the scenarios included with any (except for one) version of UV that's been released, this problem doesn't exist. When we found it in that one version, we fixed it as quickly as we could.

CRSutton,

The problem definitely does not exist here. Can you please try a new game under 2.20 just for testing and see if you can get the problem to reappear?

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 12
Re: Response... - 1/6/2003 12:12:28 AM   
Black Cat

 

Posts: 615
Joined: 7/4/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins
[B]Black Cat,

Pasternakski nailed it - you're using a user-made scenario from an earlier version, most likely a very specific single version that had the problem. We can't update scenarios we didn't make, although the user is welcome to re-mod them from the latest version. If you try any of the scenarios included with any (except for one) version of UV that's been released, this problem doesn't exist. When we found it in that one version, we fixed it as quickly as we could.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Wrong Eric.

I made this scenario with 1.2. in an attempt to provide something you guys didn`t, a Historical Pacific War Campaign game that starts at The Battle of the Coral Sea......FWIW; a lot of my time was involved in that, as well as supporting the Game on these Forums.

I tested it several times to completition and it worked fine through 1.5.

If you read the release notes you will see that I _Did Not_ alter the Ships Weapon data. Only the arrival times of the Jap CV`s to reflect Midway and individual leader and units experience data.

So my question is:

1: Is the _Ships Weapon Data_ a stand alone file loaded upon startup, and accessed by the Game Engine. or

2: Is it hardcoded into each scenario ?

3: Or a Gary special, only he knows.

If it is hardcoded into each scenario then it is clearly impossible to Mod or create scenarios for the Game, and the Editor is useless.

If it is a Stand Alone Ships Data Base that the game engine access upon loading, then it should`t make any differience what Game Version you use.

Now, If I take the time to redo the entire Scenario ( Without altering the Ships Data Base ) with the latest Version, will it work with all future Versions of the Game ????

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 13
- 1/6/2003 12:22:38 AM   
Black Cat

 

Posts: 615
Joined: 7/4/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by pasternakski
[B]Don't pick on UV.

This scenario was created a long time ago under an early version of the game (and was not sanctioned or reviewed by Matrix/2by3). The problem is embedded in the same way I described previously. The ship class data don't match the specific ship data, so the program doesn't know what to do but reflect the gun positions as "damaged." Play the scenarios Matrix provided, and play them in the most current version of the game, and you should have no problem. [/B][/QUOTE]

Please disable you Automated UV Defense System until your sure what someone is talking about.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 14
- 1/6/2003 12:47:12 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Black Cat
[B]Please disable you Automated UV Defense System until your sure what someone is talking about. [/B][/QUOTE]

I repeat. The scenario was designed within the parameters of v. 1.2 of the game. Those parameters contained the bug that causes this problem. I am not being critical of your scenario, I am merely pointing out that the bug is inextricably woven into it because of the version of the game it was designed in.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 15
- 1/6/2003 1:21:49 AM   
Black Cat

 

Posts: 615
Joined: 7/4/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by pasternakski
[B]I repeat. The scenario was designed within the parameters of v. 1.2 of the game. Those parameters contained the bug that causes this problem. I am not being critical of your scenario, I am merely pointing out that the bug is inextricably woven into it because of the version of the game it was designed in. [/B][/QUOTE]

I appreciate your attempting to help with this, however it did work with 1.2. I know, I played it through several times, and I _did not _ alter the ship weapon DB.

Many folks who downloaded it reported that fact.

If your saying you know for a fact that when updated Versions of the game come out they make previous versions of the DB, or scenarios designs with previous versions of the Game unuseable/unworkable that`s a different, and really Sad story :(

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 16
Response... - 1/7/2003 11:48:23 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Black Cat,

The database is in fact stored in the scenario file and in the save files once a game is started. Therefore, if a scenario was created using an earlier version of the official data files (i.e. modified from an official scenario), then it will have whatever oddities may have been in that scenario. Since I only know of one version of UV that ever (briefly) had this problem and that's the only time I saw this problem show up at all, I have to conclude that that was the data you used.

I'm sorry to break the news, but that's what it looks like to me. If you made the same modifications to a 2.20 scenario, the problem would almost certainly be gone. For confirmation though, I've been trying to find out from you if you see the same problem when starting a new 2.20 game with any of the official 2.20 scenarios.

We're not trying to discourage you, but we also have to keep updating our scenarios whenever we make data changes. Rich Dionne is kept quite busy every time the database is adjusted.

As far as I know, v2.20 is quite clean and quite likely to be static for a while. Also, the editor released with v2.00 has fewer problems than the previous editor from v1.00 did. I would go ahead and use it as a basis for an updated modified scenario that I doubt you'll ever need to update again.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 17
- 1/7/2003 10:23:45 PM   
Black Cat

 

Posts: 615
Joined: 7/4/2002
Status: offline 		Thanks Eric

That`s the info I needed.

I`m re-doing the Scenario with 2.20 and will see if there are any problems with that.

I`m sorry if I seemed to be attacking Matrix. That`s not my intention.

I just consider the Game so excellent I had hoped to see many other user created scenarios,which will IMHO give the game longer " life", but the general uncertainly about how the Version changes effect the Editor has perhaps put people ( besides me ) on hold.

Certainly a great deal can be accomplished with the editor as it is, and I hope folks will try using it to, and yes, 2.20 seems very stable, and I suspect, from hundreds hours of testing the long scenario# 17, that some of the problems that newer players are posting on are design functions/game play decisions rather then Bugs FWIW.

Rich

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 18
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