Air to ground - casualties still excessive?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Tech Support >> Air to ground - casualties still excessive?

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Air to ground - casualties still excessive? - 12/30/2002 9:37:22 PM

Piiska

Posts: 132
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline

I�m playing 2.20 (Fresh install, new campaign 17, head to head) and I�m still seeing air strikes causing sometimes surprisingly high casualties. In one strike from PM to Lae, 9 Hudsons caused 468 casualties on a strafing run. I know this got tweaked, but perhaps not so for all the plane models. Also 70-150 casualties are reported frequently by flights of 10-20 medium and light level bombers attacking at 6000 ft.

Is this fog of war, or is the damage really so extensive?

I�m also trying to figure if fortifying your bases helps against the air raids? Does the terrain count?

I just can�t imagine that attacking an army base in a jungle with 10-20 medium bombers can really kill that many grunts; when even today with all sorts of smart weapons and cluster munitions, aided with precision targeting, it seems to be very difficult to kill infantry on the ground.

Sure, on an occasion an infantry group can suffer horrendous losses, but to lose regularly more than 50 men seems�hmm odd.

How was this historically in the pacific? Were the (air) bases so vulnerable to air raids? How about Okinawa (level 9 fortress)? I thought that in spite of massive air and naval bombardment, the Japanese didn�t sufferer very high casualties. Disruption and loss of stationary equipment can surely be inflicted, but how about the actual loss of life?

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- 12/30/2002 9:54:17 PM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

Hmm, I wonder if it's partly FOW. If I think of it, I'll try playing myself head-to-head, and I'll ascertain how well air strikes actually do against ground troops.

(in reply to Piiska)

Post #: 2

- 12/30/2002 11:10:09 PM

Piiska

Posts: 132
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline

I was trying to do the same, but I don't know how to do the maths. Sometimes the number of the troops go down on their own, so its hard to say what is caused by enemy and what is caused by natural decay of the troops.

(in reply to Piiska)

Post #: 3

- 1/2/2003 5:10:07 AM

BigJoe417

Posts: 103
Joined: 12/19/2002
From: Somewhere over downtown Tokyo
Status: offline

I think this looks realistic to me. Except of course for the low level bombing. But why even send bombers if you just get 11 casualties out of a raid? I'm trying to combine shore bombardments and low level bombing missions with a ground attack to maximize the effectiveness of my attack. I think 140 heavy bombers on a daylight low level run could account for over 300 casualties dont you?

Air attack on 102nd Regiment, at 9,34

Allied aircraft
Hudson x 12
P-38G Lightning x 34
F-5A Lightning x 2
B-25D Mitchell x 24
B-25J Mitchell x 62
B-17E Fortress x 43
B-24D Liberator x 23

no losses

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 322

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-24D Liberator at 3000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet
3 x B-25D Mitchell at 3000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet
3 x B-24D Liberator at 3000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet
3 x Hudson at 3000 feet
6 x B-17E Fortress at 3000 feet
9 x Hudson at 3000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress at 3000 feet
5 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet
6 x B-17E Fortress at 3000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress at 3000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress at 3000 feet
6 x B-25D Mitchell at 3000 feet
12 x B-25D Mitchell at 3000 feet
3 x B-24D Liberator at 3000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet
7 x B-17E Fortress at 3000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 3000 feet
6 x B-24D Liberator at 3000 feet
3 x B-24D Liberator at 3000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 3000 feet
5 x B-24D Liberator at 3000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 3000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 3000 feet
3 x B-25D Mitchell at 3000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell at 3000 feet

_____________________________

Fly High and Drop a big load,
BigJoe
420th Bomber Sqdn

(in reply to Piiska)

Post #: 4

- 1/2/2003 10:09:39 AM

Knavey

Posts: 3052
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
Status: offline

Dont know if I agree with this premise...300 per raid. If there were 20k Japanese defenders on Iwo, why not just bomb it into oblivion with bombing raid after raid after raid. It would take a less than 100 raids if this styly attrition works. Eventually you get to a point where the raids have destroyed everything that they are capable of destroying and the remaining stuff is just too deep to blow up.

I wonder if you can elimante entire regiments in here with just bombers...would take a while to test though.

_____________________________

x-Nuc twidget
CVN-71
USN 87-93
"Going slow in the fast direction"

(in reply to Piiska)

Post #: 5

- 1/2/2003 11:06:50 AM

bilbow

Posts: 741
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Concord NH
Status: offline

The main effect of bombing on ground troops is disruption.

(in reply to Piiska)

Post #: 6

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Tech Support >> Air to ground - casualties still excessive?

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