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RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121

 
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RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/1/2013 9:22:20 AM   
kjnoel

 

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Joined: 3/10/2011
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I thought I had made a mistake and was reading Nemo's AAR when I read your latest update so I went back and wanted to remind you of Alfred's posting earlier:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

No, you have not lost the initiative. You are giving it away for free. Like all his opponents you commence the match already defeated by Nemo's reputation. Your opponent will engage in several early actions, present them as being under his total control, distract you from following an appropriate plan, and be applauded by the peanut gallery as evidence of his genius (or the demonstration once again of the inevitability of the superiority of Soviet doctrine). When in reality it will all be smoke and mirrors to which, on the evidence presented so far by you, you will meekly acquiesce.



As far as I can see Nemo mainly defeats his opponents outside the game itself; I am not doubting his ability in-game but his primary mastery is in handling the psychology of his opponent. Alfred has beautifuly summed this up in the paragraph I have quoted; your update appears to some degree to be from Nemo's point of view. As an example you mention "Fionn" 8 times in your post, take a step back and read what you wrote and think why.

Don't let Nemo tell you how things are going, look at the game and decide for yourself. A couple of years ago Nemo convinced the forum that Palembang was the most important hex on the map, well it's not..... it's the most valuable, but that's a completely different concept.

A couple of points:

1. If the Japanese don't achieve auto-victory in early '43 then the Allies will win, the only question is to what degree. From that point forward it's not about winning, it's about slowing your eventual demise.
2. Another of Alfreds posts some time ago referred to his frustration at players ignoring the game victory conditions and declaring "I'll know when I've won", well that also translates to "I'll know when I've lost". Don't fall into that trap, allow the game victory screen to tell you how the game went, not anyone else.

Finally, I could be wrong here but I don't think Nemo has ever finished a game..... I think that he actually always declares at some point "I have won and the challenge is gone", having wrested the pschological initiative from his opponent some time ago that statement is taken as fact, but is it really?

Get back in the ring and continue giving him a good kicking! Make him sweat for his eventual '45 victory





(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 91
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/1/2013 10:33:56 AM   
aoffen

 

Posts: 494
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: Brisvegas, Australia
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It ain't as easy at it seems believe me. I am in October '44 as the Allies and only now feel like I am getting on top. I didn't take half the kicking that you gave the Allies in your game. My opponents are damn good and maybe I am not as aggressive as Nemo, is but it is tough all the way thru to '44. US army airframe numbers in particular are a huge problem for the Allies even in late '44. US subs are toothless against a well managed ASW campaign. China is always vulnerable. In my game China collapsed in late '43 into '44 - I only hold Chungking now. I think many Japanese player beat themselves.

Then again, maybe thats all wrong and I am just crap :)

Regards
Andrew

(in reply to kjnoel)
Post #: 92
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/1/2013 10:44:39 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aoffen

It ain't as easy at it seems believe me. I am in October '44 as the Allies and only now feel like I am getting on top. I didn't take half the kicking that you gave the Allies in your game. My opponents are damn good and maybe I am not as aggressive as Nemo, is but it is tough all the way thru to '44. US army airframe numbers in particular are a huge problem for the Allies even in late '44. US subs are toothless against a well managed ASW campaign. China is always vulnerable. In my game China collapsed in late '43 into '44 - I only hold Chungking now. I think many Japanese player beat themselves.

Then again, maybe thats all wrong and I am just crap :)

Regards
Andrew


Well, I´m experiencing the exact same thing. But perhaps we are both crap?

(in reply to aoffen)
Post #: 93
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/1/2013 12:43:13 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kjnoel

I thought I had made a mistake and was reading Nemo's AAR when I read your latest update so I went back and wanted to remind you of Alfred's posting earlier:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

No, you have not lost the initiative. You are giving it away for free. Like all his opponents you commence the match already defeated by Nemo's reputation. Your opponent will engage in several early actions, present them as being under his total control, distract you from following an appropriate plan, and be applauded by the peanut gallery as evidence of his genius (or the demonstration once again of the inevitability of the superiority of Soviet doctrine). When in reality it will all be smoke and mirrors to which, on the evidence presented so far by you, you will meekly acquiesce.



As far as I can see Nemo mainly defeats his opponents outside the game itself; I am not doubting his ability in-game but his primary mastery is in handling the psychology of his opponent. Alfred has beautifuly summed this up in the paragraph I have quoted; your update appears to some degree to be from Nemo's point of view. As an example you mention "Fionn" 8 times in your post, take a step back and read what you wrote and think why.

Don't let Nemo tell you how things are going, look at the game and decide for yourself. A couple of years ago Nemo convinced the forum that Palembang was the most important hex on the map, well it's not..... it's the most valuable, but that's a completely different concept.

A couple of points:

1. If the Japanese don't achieve auto-victory in early '43 then the Allies will win, the only question is to what degree. From that point forward it's not about winning, it's about slowing your eventual demise.
2. Another of Alfreds posts some time ago referred to his frustration at players ignoring the game victory conditions and declaring "I'll know when I've won", well that also translates to "I'll know when I've lost". Don't fall into that trap, allow the game victory screen to tell you how the game went, not anyone else.

Finally, I could be wrong here but I don't think Nemo has ever finished a game..... I think that he actually always declares at some point "I have won and the challenge is gone", having wrested the pschological initiative from his opponent some time ago that statement is taken as fact, but is it really?

Get back in the ring and continue giving him a good kicking! Make him sweat for his eventual '45 victory



+1

Playing Japan is about psychological and emotional fortitude and the ability to take knocks and keep coming. You are still in control.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to kjnoel)
Post #: 94
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/2/2013 3:08:52 AM   
n01487477


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Guys -
I am not acquiescing and certainly no sycophant of Fionn. Oops, I mentioned his name I was brought up ultra-competitive in a family of sport and board game players. I have an A type personality, although that has been replaced with a more balanced approach to life after some hard lines in my late - 20's.

Let's take an example of stupidity and cunning that didn't pay off recently. Why the conundrum ? Well, I was wrong to try to extract my troops from Attu in the first place, but I was right to attempt to dent and maybe reverse the Allied positions on the Aleutians.

I am coming up with a workable solution to the dropbox thing. I will upload combat save and my orders as 2 different files. I will archive 5 days. We are using the stacking limits, which I will point too as well and my own Scen 1 mod with ASW limits and economic changes.







Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to kjnoel)
Post #: 95
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/2/2013 3:27:49 AM   
n01487477


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OK ... I'll update this during the day, so you can have the last few turns.

J2 Beta
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17642556/DamianVFionn/AEupdate1123j2.exe

Stacking limits https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17642556/DamianVFionn/Stock%20Map%20Data%20With%20SL%20%281%29.zip

Combat Initial thrust into Attu 28th
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17642556/DamianVFionn/wpaeC_296.pws

Combat Second round (heavy action)29th
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17642556/DamianVFionn/wpaeC_297.pws
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17642556/DamianVFionn/wpaeOrd297.pws

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 6/2/2013 3:32:26 AM >


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Post #: 96
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/2/2013 7:51:07 AM   
obvert


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Ouch on the Attu battle. I would have at least one of your SAGs on a stationary patrol at Attu with a 1 hex react. The small react usually allows the BBs to go after anything arriving before it hits the transports.

If those are slow US BBs the KB should be able to run them down, right?

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/2/2013 11:39:47 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 97
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/2/2013 10:31:14 AM   
kjnoel

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 3/10/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Guys -
I am not acquiescing and certainly no sycophant of Fionn. Oops, I mentioned his name I was brought up ultra-competitive in a family of sport and board game players. I have an A type personality, although that has been replaced with a more balanced approach to life after some hard lines in my late - 20's.



Great to hear it and hope I didn't offend, it wasn't my intent.

I believe that Nemo talks about the long game, but actually plays the short to medium game - convinced that he can declare victory before long. Looking forward to seeing this go all the way

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 98
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/3/2013 3:34:43 AM   
bigred


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Joined: 12/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I´m an allied player that have lost China twice in Scenario 1. While I´m no expert on the Japanese side I think its not much an allied player can do against a determined Japanese attack. From the AARs I follow I think CR is the only one that has been able to stand his ground in China. But its looks like his opponent isn´t making much of an effort either.

Check in with my opponents SqzMyLemon and obvert. Both have AARs ongoing against me. I´m sure they can give you good advice on China! Once you start applying pressure to the Chinese the supply will nose dive. In my first game I was down to under 5k supply in whole of China just before the collapse. Going on the offensive as the allies in China I think is a very big mistake. You should be able to exploit that.



my ongoing campaign against Cuttlefish sees 25,000 Chinese av blitzing through Southern China on their march to Shanghai and nothing can stop them. Babeslite version, so equivalent to scen 1 in LCU and air units. It much depends on the early 3-4 months, if the Japanese player can't take advantage of the setup in the game, then he will have an as hard life in China as the Japanese had in real life. Of course the Chinese need supply, so without Burma secured, they won't have supply. With supply, they are a steamroller as battles are decided by assault value in the game and if you've got Chinese stacks of 10,000av each, fully prepped, exp up to 55+ you'll see Chinese adjusted av of 15,000 and higher, kicking the Japanese out of pretty much all positions. I was long wondering why I was advancing all over the map until I realized the Japanese must be running out of ground units as they have lost 8000 pts for ground losses by 9/43.

All the Chinese need are a better positioning at start (not the historical positions that are nothing but a huge disadvantage in the game) and supply and you will end up having more than 30,000 Chinese av in late 43. And how much would the Japanese have by that time? 1/3? Probably not even that much and for sure not that much mobile as there are many bases that have high garisson requirements, Shanghai has nearly 1000 av requirement.


OT-sorry
Hi CT. What are the babes lite modifications that improve the china situation?

_____________________________

---bigred---

IJ Production mistakes--
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2597400

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 99
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/3/2013 12:19:40 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I´m an allied player that have lost China twice in Scenario 1. While I´m no expert on the Japanese side I think its not much an allied player can do against a determined Japanese attack. From the AARs I follow I think CR is the only one that has been able to stand his ground in China. But its looks like his opponent isn´t making much of an effort either.

Check in with my opponents SqzMyLemon and obvert. Both have AARs ongoing against me. I´m sure they can give you good advice on China! Once you start applying pressure to the Chinese the supply will nose dive. In my first game I was down to under 5k supply in whole of China just before the collapse. Going on the offensive as the allies in China I think is a very big mistake. You should be able to exploit that.



my ongoing campaign against Cuttlefish sees 25,000 Chinese av blitzing through Southern China on their march to Shanghai and nothing can stop them. Babeslite version, so equivalent to scen 1 in LCU and air units. It much depends on the early 3-4 months, if the Japanese player can't take advantage of the setup in the game, then he will have an as hard life in China as the Japanese had in real life. Of course the Chinese need supply, so without Burma secured, they won't have supply. With supply, they are a steamroller as battles are decided by assault value in the game and if you've got Chinese stacks of 10,000av each, fully prepped, exp up to 55+ you'll see Chinese adjusted av of 15,000 and higher, kicking the Japanese out of pretty much all positions. I was long wondering why I was advancing all over the map until I realized the Japanese must be running out of ground units as they have lost 8000 pts for ground losses by 9/43.

All the Chinese need are a better positioning at start (not the historical positions that are nothing but a huge disadvantage in the game) and supply and you will end up having more than 30,000 Chinese av in late 43. And how much would the Japanese have by that time? 1/3? Probably not even that much and for sure not that much mobile as there are many bases that have high garisson requirements, Shanghai has nearly 1000 av requirement.


OT-sorry
Hi CT. What are the babes lite modifications that improve the china situation?



no modifications in that regard as far as I know

_____________________________


(in reply to bigred)
Post #: 100
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/6/2013 4:06:55 AM   
n01487477


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The amount of Allied troops, ships and planes is just staggering... How can any allied player not wipe the floor mid-'43 in beyond me. I need to play the Allied side once, just to feel omnipotent.

Max file size means I'll talk about Australia tomorrow...




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


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Post #: 101
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/6/2013 4:08:39 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

The amount of Allied troops, ships and planes is just staggering... How can any allied player not wipe the floor mid-'43 in beyond me. I need to play the Allied side once, just to feel omnipotent.


And of course Fionn is a master is using all of it to press you from as many sides as possible to divert you from what he is really going to do.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 102
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/6/2013 4:27:59 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

The amount of Allied troops, ships and planes is just staggering... How can any allied player not wipe the floor mid-'43 in beyond me. I need to play the Allied side once, just to feel omnipotent.


And of course Fionn is a master is using all of it to press you from as many sides as possible to divert you from what he is really going to do.

Thanks Pax ... haven't lost sight of that fact ... I believe some Allied players need to play as the IJ and vice-versa to really understand how poorly they are playing.

In China - he's heading for Shanghai.
In Burma, he's heading for a hop to Singapore.
In Australia, he's looking to go up the chain to the Philippines.
In the Nrth, He'll wait a bit and try an amphib of the Kuriles again after I've retaken them. Actually, I'm sure he's like to do it earlier, but that would mean diverting a lot of my naval forces elsewhere.

Have a good one mate.

_____________________________


(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 103
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/7/2013 5:11:53 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

The amount of Allied troops, ships and planes is just staggering... How can any allied player not wipe the floor mid-'43 in beyond me. I need to play the Allied side once, just to feel omnipotent.


And of course Fionn is a master is using all of it to press you from as many sides as possible to divert you from what he is really going to do.

Thanks Pax ... haven't lost sight of that fact ... I believe some Allied players need to play as the IJ and vice-versa to really understand how poorly they are playing.

In China - he's heading for Shanghai.
In Burma, he's heading for a hop to Singapore.
In Australia, he's looking to go up the chain to the Philippines.
In the Nrth, He'll wait a bit and try an amphib of the Kuriles again after I've retaken them. Actually, I'm sure he's like to do it earlier, but that would mean diverting a lot of my naval forces elsewhere.

Have a good one mate.

Typical Fionn.

Now, let's add up what else we know. He doesn't have strength to do all of those yet, not even close. What you have to do is to figure out where his real thrust is; which one do you have to bring your reserves to? The rest of them, you should be able to defeat with your local forces. At this time, your LCU's are still stronger than most of the allied ones. Your airforce is a lot stronger if you concentrate it and bring it to bear.

But, to counter all of these, you are going to have to commit all of your forces. Fionn plays no half measures, he throws everything against the wall and sees what sticks. He then reinforces whatever success he has from his forthcoming replacements. Defeats, he allows to whither and forgets about them. As you note, he has 4 thrusts; he only needs one to work to either win or create significant havoc.

On the flip side, he is putting a lot of forces into harms way early. If you crush them, you can put his offensive schemes to rest for 6 months or more.

Good Luck! BANZAI!!!

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 104
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/7/2013 8:42:02 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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In China you shouldn't have to do much more than you are doing. His 'offensive' will wither as supply runs out. There is no way he can continue to go forward against resistance with Chinese troops if you bomb and let him pound against troops in dug in positions. Also, I know you have a lot of armor there, but make sure you get all from Manchuria plus maybe some of those heavy 24-30cm guns. They will crush the Chinese in a static position.

I'd have trouble knowing which Chinese units to crush first as there are so many in clear hexes just waiting for your bombing runs. It has to be daunting to watch all of this coming at you there, but just stick with it and there is no way he can continue to push. Hit the weak spots first and make the shattered units there have to take on supply to heal squads and take new ones.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 105
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/7/2013 4:42:58 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

The amount of Allied troops, ships and planes is just staggering... How can any allied player not wipe the floor mid-'43 in beyond me. I need to play the Allied side once, just to feel omnipotent.


And of course Fionn is a master is using all of it to press you from as many sides as possible to divert you from what he is really going to do.

Thanks Pax ... haven't lost sight of that fact ... I believe some Allied players need to play as the IJ and vice-versa to really understand how poorly they are playing.

In China - he's heading for Shanghai.
In Burma, he's heading for a hop to Singapore.
In Australia, he's looking to go up the chain to the Philippines.
In the Nrth, He'll wait a bit and try an amphib of the Kuriles again after I've retaken them. Actually, I'm sure he's like to do it earlier, but that would mean diverting a lot of my naval forces elsewhere.

Have a good one mate.

Typical Fionn.

Now, let's add up what else we know. He doesn't have strength to do all of those yet, not even close. What you have to do is to figure out where his real thrust is; which one do you have to bring your reserves to? The rest of them, you should be able to defeat with your local forces. At this time, your LCU's are still stronger than most of the allied ones. Your airforce is a lot stronger if you concentrate it and bring it to bear.

But, to counter all of these, you are going to have to commit all of your forces. Fionn plays no half measures, he throws everything against the wall and sees what sticks. He then reinforces whatever success he has from his forthcoming replacements. Defeats, he allows to whither and forgets about them. As you note, he has 4 thrusts; he only needs one to work to either win or create significant havoc.

On the flip side, he is putting a lot of forces into harms way early. If you crush them, you can put his offensive schemes to rest for 6 months or more.

Good Luck! BANZAI!!!



PaxMondo is on the right track but he doesn't go far enough as this still hands the initiative to the Allies. I remind readers to go back to my early post on how to approach the problem.

Using the air force to Ground Attack Allied units in China is a misuse of that asset. That Damian has recently forced a withdrawal of Allied units from a clear hex with the assistance of the air force does not invalidate my statement that it is a mistake. All that the bombing represents is a very small tactical Japanese victory achieved at the cost of a significant strategic Japanese defeat. On the other hand, at the cost of a very small tactical defeat, Nemo has achieved a significant Allied strategic victory.

Why is this so?

1. The Allied losses are easily replaced with supply.

2. Nemo does not even have to concern himself with replacing his materiel losses as his strategic plan can be furthered even with depleted chinese units.

3. The Japanese action has been entirely in response to the Allied moves. It is reactive and as such cedes the initiative to the Allies.

4. Japan has no plans to effectively exploit this very minor tactical victory and any attempt to exploit this "victory" by advancing in the general area does not improve the strategic Japanese position but does improve the Allied strategic position.

5. The opportunity cost of using the Japanese aircraft on Ground Attack has been huge and is one of the main factors which underpin the statement made in point 4 above.



I will at this point make this general comment because players consistently fail to pay due regard to it. Every so often someone on the forum will mention "opportunity" cost. I do so quite frequently. Usually players think of "opportunity cost" only in terms of carrying out an unproductive action and then contemplate how the assets could have been employed in a productive action instead. What they consistently fail to see is that "opportunity cost" also applies to using assets in a productive action but the value of achieving success in that action is far inferior to that of a much more promising action. In fact one can achieve only partial success with the better productive action and still come out ahead in "opportunity cost" terms than if one had achieved 100% success in the lesser productive action.



What was and remains the correct use of the Japanese air force in China? The answer is found in my early post. Destroy every Allied supply source. Only when there is no Allied supply source in range should any consideration be given to using the air force on other tasks or in another theatre, assuming that the rest of the Japanese military (ie the army and navy) cannot then bring untouched Allied supply sources into range of the air force. And that is an unwarranted assumption which I provide an invalidation of the assumption further down.

Destroying Allied supply sources in China is of much higher benefit to the overall Imperial war effort for these reasons.

1. Destruction of supply sources impacts negatively on all Allied land and air units operating in China and encompasses all Allied nationalities. Japan derives a long term benefit from doing so.

2. Routing of Chinese units in a single hex only impacts negatively on those few, in relative terms low quality Chinese assets, but leaves untouched all other low and high quality land and air units in the theatre. Japan derives only a very short term benefit from doing so.

3. For the reasons given in the two preceding points, strategic bombing is a large force multiplier at the least cost in terms of Japanese asset and logistical expenditure to Japan itself, which slows down Allied operations in China the most and provides japan with a time credit to utilise it's initiative elsewhere.

4. For as you destroy Allied supply sources in China Nemo is left with the difficult choice of does he direct his meagre supply imports to the immediate feeding of his advance at the pointy end or to rebuild his local industry. Strategic bombing in China promises to deprive the Allies of benefiting from the recapturing Burma as a means to supply the Chinese hordes. I won't discuss now how that can dramatically impact on the Japanese handling of the Burma theatre



Let us approach China from another angle. What can the Allies achieve in China and what benefits can they expect to reap. Damian has indicated that he believes Nemo is heading for Shanghai. Why would Shanghai be the Allied target? Well capturing that city allows for:

1. The complete interdiction of all Japanese raw material convoys traversing the south China Sea back to the Home Islands

2. It makes inoperative the magical raw material overland highway from Singapore to the East China Sea ports

3. It greatly complicates the Japanese defensive posture as various different axes for the next Allied advance open up.

(a) Do the Allies make the short jump to Taiwan (without the need of Allied carriers which can be profitably used on a completely different axis) and thereby directly reduce Japanese secondary industry capacity with the attendant ill effects on HI points production
(b) Do the Allies strike at Korea with the threefold objective of further reducing Japanese industrial production, or moving into Manchukuo to reduce the garrison to below 8000 AV and thereby trigger an early Russian activation, or merely making the rest of the IJA position in northern China untenable due to being cut off from resupply and unable to redeploy to the Home Islands to meet any Allied landings there
(c) Do the Allies move into the Ryukus to more directly threaten the Home Islands and cut off the Korea-Japan SLOC

So there are very great tangible benefits to Nemo if he captures Shanghai but ... but ... but if he lacks the supply to sustain offensive operations at several points simultaneously in China or to manoeuvre you out of strongpoints, he will be stopped stone motherless dead just from lack of supply long before he gets there. It is in fact to your considerable benefit to cede ground at various points in China as it draws him away from his supply depots and you approach closer to your own supply depots.

One of the reasons I posted previously that you should move to capture every Allied port in China was to deny the allies the option of shipping in supply and shortening your own lines. With all Chinese ports under Imperial control, you can then utilise the internal Chinese riverine system to both send supply up river at a very good exchange rate and to land behind any advancing Allied LCUs.


I said before you are handing over the initiative, not losing it. You still have time, but it is fast running out and most of your contemplated actions are of no real benefit, to wield the big stick. Everything Nemo will do is completely dependent on maintaining secure LOCs and getting supply to his spearheads. You can totally disregard them, even at short term cost if, and I repeat again, if you take offensive action to destroy his logistics. He cannot afford to disregard that threat. Your logistics are much more secure simply from possessing interior lines and from the victories achieved previously against Floyd. It therefore comes down to this:

who will blink first

Adopt the right strategy and tactics, and he will objectively have to blink first even though he will try to convince you, by the use of smoke and mirrors, that it is you who has to blink first. You can destroy Allied supply sources (and not just in China) much more easily than he can. But give another 1-2 months of what you are currently doing, and that statement may no longer apply. Currently you hold the bigger stick, that is why you still hold the initiative objectively, provided you act appropriately.

This post is already too long for me to comment on what you can do elsewhere.

Alfred

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 106
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/7/2013 4:51:21 PM   
Canoerebel


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P.S. in the Interests of Clarification: Emoticon indicates: Wow, good stuff!

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 6/7/2013 4:52:02 PM >

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RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/7/2013 5:08:40 PM   
Skyros


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Okay Alfred where is the second post on other areas?

Alfred is right, if you do not cripple China she will become a thorn in Japan's side. Were there house rules preventing strategic bombing in China in 42? My last campaign my Japanese opponent lost interest in the China campaign which allowed me to resupply and rest up my troops. I was able to start an offensive in 44 that rolled back the Japanese and retook Honk Kong and other ports. Japan can't let the pressure off and must always press at least to keep the allied side busy and guessing as to the real intent.

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Post #: 108
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/7/2013 5:28:43 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

Okay Alfred where is the second post on other areas?

Alfred is right, if you do not cripple China she will become a thorn in Japan's side. Were there house rules preventing strategic bombing in China in 42? My last campaign my Japanese opponent lost interest in the China campaign which allowed me to resupply and rest up my troops. I was able to start an offensive in 44 that rolled back the Japanese and retook Honk Kong and other ports. Japan can't let the pressure off and must always press at least to keep the allied side busy and guessing as to the real intent.


I just looked back and Nemo asked to remove that HR so that all strategic bombing is allowed now.

There are some great points in Alfred's post. I for one think a combination of balanced tactical and strategic bombing is both possible and necessary if allowed. You can't ignore the power of the IJAAF against ground troops in the clear however, especially when faced with a massive and (in my opinion) fragile offensive by the Chinese. Break a few spots and the cards come tumbling down leading to more losses.

It's still then possible to use the air force to bomb supply centers to rubble, and shouldn't take more than a few weeks of turns, but the tactical situation must be addressed at the same time while some of these Cinese troops are vulnerable and before they acquire MORE supply through territorial gain and IJA leftovers. The conquered cities on the coast probably gave them more supply than they could make in a month in all of China.

quote:

Destroying Allied supply sources in China is of much higher benefit to the overall Imperial war effort for these reasons.

1. Destruction of supply sources impacts negatively on all Allied land and air units operating in China and encompasses all Allied nationalities. Japan derives a long term benefit from doing so.


Yes, but as stated above this doesn't have to preclude balanced use still targeting troops in specific locations for short duration.

quote:


2. Routing of Chinese units in a single hex only impacts negatively on those few, in relative terms low quality Chinese assets, but leaves untouched all other low and high quality land and air units in the theatre. Japan derives only a very short term benefit from doing so.


This is only partially true. If those units take bases that Japan must reconquer it is much more difficult to recover one's own defeated troops rather than hold after bombing the Chinese, causing disruption and disablements, and never having them actually take those bases with their supply, destroying their industry that can be used by the Japanese in future as well, and keeping one's own troops a competent fighting force.

quote:


3. For the reasons given in the two preceding points, strategic bombing is a large force multiplier at the least cost in terms of Japanese asset and logistical expenditure to Japan itself, which slows down Allied operations in China the most and provides japan with a time credit to utilise it's initiative elsewhere.


Yes, agreed, but only when the tactical situation allows it. If you need to slow the advance of a Chinese force, and disrupt and disable that force so your own troops can arrive and save a base from falling (not having it's industry halved, not losing the supply there, not having to take it back, not having your troops defeated with many lost squads, disruption, loss of time and supply) you must bomb. It's easy then after you save the necessary areas to continue strategic bombing. If he wants to keep his force in fighting condition he will be in the meantime taking replacements and healing disabled squads, thus still 'destroying' supply.

quote:


4. For as you destroy Allied supply sources in China Nemo is left with the difficult choice of does he direct his meagre supply imports to the immediate feeding of his advance at the pointy end or to rebuild his local industry. Strategic bombing in China promises to deprive the Allies of benefiting from the recapturing Burma as a means to supply the Chinese hordes. I won't discuss now how that can dramatically impact on the Japanese handling of the Burma theatre


Agreed. It just has to be measured against the losses of allowing an advancing army to take bases, supply, territory, disabling one's own army and strengthening their own through gains in experience and the ability to potentially use captured supply centers to build forts and make it hard to reconquer those positions.

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/7/2013 5:40:11 PM >


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RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/7/2013 6:22:30 PM   
Yaab


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Destroy Light Industry in every city which lies in clear terrain hexes. Obvious targets are Shayoang, Siangtang and Henyang near Changsha and Liuchow. Bring everyone, even light bombers with 15 kg bombs will destroy LI there. Fly at 1,000 to 6,000 feet. Dont bomb at 10,000 feet - waste of time. Dont let Nemo fortify these cities - suppress fort construction there with Nate and Oscars bombing airfields.


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RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/10/2013 7:59:44 PM   
zuluhour


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Five days since last post by Japan, I don't want to peek into Nemo's AAR, is the war still on?

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Post #: 111
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/11/2013 1:40:00 AM   
n01487477


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

Five days since last post by Japan, I don't want to peek into Nemo's AAR, is the war still on?

I'm putting together a post right now. Unfortunately at this time of year my students have finals and I'm being pulled from pillar to post with essay marking, code appraisal and oral assessment.

Give me 30 ;-)

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Post #: 112
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/11/2013 2:24:20 AM   
n01487477


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More after I get this turn back to fionn ...




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 113
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/11/2013 3:32:15 AM   
n01487477


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The Aussie situation...




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 114
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/11/2013 3:38:25 AM   
n01487477


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Kuriles:




The combat turn and orders for this turn:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17642556/DamianVFionn/wpae016.zip

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 6/11/2013 3:40:26 AM >


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RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/11/2013 4:11:57 AM   
bbbf

 

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Why so many regiments still? They are far more vulnerable than when formed up into their parent division.

There is ~600 AV in Darwin that is far less resilient than it should be.

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Post #: 116
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/11/2013 4:29:52 AM   
n01487477


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bbbf

Why so many regiments still? They are far more vulnerable than when formed up into their parent division.

There is ~600 AV in Darwin that is far less resilient than it should be.

One of the things I'm transitioning to... In the initial expansion I leave them be as I need flexibility and numbers.
You are right now I need to combine them..

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Post #: 117
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/11/2013 4:45:09 AM   
PaxMondo


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Darwin: I would bail, now, before you lose those troops. You have only one ID there ... it isn't enough. Fionn is going to have overwhelming numbers there soon 4xID + armor at least. Darwin can only be held when you hold Alice Springs. Once you lose Alice Springs, Darwin is on a short timetable. The Aussies have too much that they can concentrate. Whether you leave the troops there or not is not going to buy you any time ... He owns Darwin already, he just hasn't started building it up.

Burma. Ouch. Losing it in '42 hurts. It makes China that much more important. Alfred's points are all still valid, but once he has Rangoon, they are less so. He can "pump" in a lot of supply. Your jeopardy in China is going to ratchet up a few more notches.

Kuriles: Whew! This looks good. If you could take Adak, but I bet he has at least an ID there or more. Without that tripwire, and the ability for him to use Adak as a good staging port, you are going to have to be VERY vigilant on your North axis for the remainder of the game. Build up Paramushiro AF, train some Emily/Mavis pilot for recon and dedicate a squadron to recon Adak. You have to know what's up there all the time now. He could load troops at Anchorage or PH, but they would be pretty beat up by the time they reached the Kuriles. Adak is the embarkation port of choice. I would also have a few Glens dedicated there as well. Of course NavSearch patrols as well, etc. etc.

I'm not sure where all your ID's are ... you had only regiments when you tried to attack in the Aleutians and you have regiments in Darwin ... you don't seem to have as many ID's showing as you should. Something's off here. This is a mod that I'm not familiar with at all, but even in Scen 1 I should be able to see more ID's in combat than are appearing. Either you are hiding them for a sinister blow , or your mod has disabled them. Time will tell ....



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Post #: 118
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/11/2013 8:09:57 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477


quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

Five days since last post by Japan, I don't want to peek into Nemo's AAR, is the war still on?

I'm putting together a post right now. Unfortunately at this time of year my students have finals and I'm being pulled from pillar to post with essay marking, code appraisal and oral assessment.

Give me 30 ;-)


Feel you there. My exams are today and then comes the marking. Due on Thursday! Not much turnaround time.

Good luck on it.

Do you have the summer free?

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Post #: 119
RE: n01487477 Vs. Nemo121 - 6/11/2013 11:37:33 AM   
aoffen

 

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Consider his supply situation at Darwin though. I tried taking it overland in my game as the Allies and became totally bogged down with lack of supply to support all my combat power. eventually had to abandon the whole effort. Not sure it is lost.....not that this info helps your decision in any way :)

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