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RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans

 
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RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 5/27/2013 11:32:54 AM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur
Wrong! If you enter an enemy ZOC during these phases you have to stop.
You are however allowed to leave an enemy ZOC, if you start in the hex itself.
Both are only allowed if there is a friendly land unit in the hex.


As you all like to point out the rule explicitly states enter or leave not enter and leave.

Since there are 3 factories in Moscow lets use it as an example.

You all agree that...
The resource in the adjacent hex can leave an enemy ZOC there if a friendly unit is in the hex.
But it has to stop in the Moscow hex because it enters a new ZOC.

Why can't another resource use the same route into Moscow?

It can enter the enemy ZOC in the adjacent resource hex if a friendly unit is in the hex.
But it has to stop in that hex because it cannot leave that ZOC and enter a new ZOC.


If a Headquarters unit were in the resource hex the same would hold true if you wanted to rail a unit (possibly due to action limitations) from the resource hex into Moscow.

But this can only occur if the Headquarters or another friendly land unit is in that hex both before and after the rail move. And You can only rail move a unit if it is face-up. After ending its rail move, turn the unit face-down.


quote:

For Shannon V. OKeets

Did you know that USA laws and union regulations only allow railroad train crews to operate a train for a set amount of time?

After which they park the train exactly where it is located (this can be in the middle of nowhere) and await the arrival of a replacement crew.


Things were different in World War II than in 1970.

Railroads In World War II

German War Steam Locomotives

Deutsche Reichsbahn - The German State Railway in WWII by Arvo L. Vecamer




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Post #: 181
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 5/29/2013 4:19:49 AM   
Extraneous

 

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Exclusive or ~ one or other, but not both are true. Example: You may either enter or leave but not both.

Inclusive or ~ at least one is true. Example: You may enter or leave.


quote:

The resource’s move can only enter or leave a hex in an enemy ZOC if there is a friendly land unit in the hex. Its move must stop when it enters an enemy ZOC.


Since the rule is written as an Inclusive or:
As long as a friendly unit is in the hex a resource's move can enter and/or leave a hex in an enemy ZOC.


Example: Yaroslavl has a friendly land unit in it.
An enemy unit is in the hex northeast of Yaroslavl exerting a ZOC into Yaroslavl.
A resource's move enters Yaroslavl from the east.
The resource's move can then leave Yaroslavl and continue southeast to Moscow.
If the resource's move enters another enemy ZOC it has to stop in that hex.


In all of your views is this correct?



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Post #: 182
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 5/29/2013 6:17:00 PM   
Centuur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Exclusive or ~ one or other, but not both are true. Example: You may either enter or leave but not both.

Inclusive or ~ at least one is true. Example: You may enter or leave.


quote:

The resource’s move can only enter or leave a hex in an enemy ZOC if there is a friendly land unit in the hex. Its move must stop when it enters an enemy ZOC.


Since the rule is written as an Inclusive or:
As long as a friendly unit is in the hex a resource's move can enter and/or leave a hex in an enemy ZOC.


Example: Yaroslavl has a friendly land unit in it.
An enemy unit is in the hex northeast of Yaroslavl exerting a ZOC into Yaroslavl.
A resource's move enters Yaroslavl from the east.
The resource's move can then leave Yaroslavl and continue southeast to Moscow.
If the resource's move enters another enemy ZOC it has to stop in that hex.


In all of your views is this correct?



No.

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Post #: 183
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 5/29/2013 8:43:15 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Exclusive or ~ one or other, but not both are true. Example: You may either enter or leave but not both.

Inclusive or ~ at least one is true. Example: You may enter or leave.


quote:

The resource’s move can only enter or leave a hex in an enemy ZOC if there is a friendly land unit in the hex. Its move must stop when it enters an enemy ZOC.


Since the rule is written as an Inclusive or:
As long as a friendly unit is in the hex a resource's move can enter and/or leave a hex in an enemy ZOC.


Example: Yaroslavl has a friendly land unit in it.
An enemy unit is in the hex northeast of Yaroslavl exerting a ZOC into Yaroslavl.
A resource's move enters Yaroslavl from the east.
The resource's move can then leave Yaroslavl and continue southeast to Moscow.
If the resource's move enters another enemy ZOC it has to stop in that hex.


In all of your views is this correct?



No.



Centuur says this is a clear case of an "exclusive or" situation.

"Exclusive or" Example: Moscow and the resource hex to the east have friendly land units in them.
An enemy unit is in the hex southwest of the resource hex exerting a ZOC into Moscow and the resource hex.
A resource's move cannot enter Moscow from the east because you cannot leave a ZOC and enter a hex in a ZOC.

You can either enter or leave but you can't do both.


Note
The rule says "The resource’s move can only enter or leave a hex in an enemy ZOC if there is a friendly land unit in the hex."

The rule doesn't say "If the resource’s move starts in a enemy ZOC it can only enter or leave a hex in an enemy ZOC if there is a friendly land unit in the hex."


< Message edited by Extraneous -- 5/30/2013 1:35:30 AM >


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Post #: 184
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 5/30/2013 4:52:52 PM   
Centuur


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The rule is pretty clear to me. That it isn't to you is something you keep hammering on. I don't like this at all.

A resource can't move THROUGH an enemy ZOC. It can move out of a ZOC or into a ZOC but not do both in the same hex.

Period. I'm getting very, very tired of this...

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Post #: 185
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 5/30/2013 10:49:37 PM   
Plainian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

The rule is pretty clear to me. That it isn't to you is something you keep hammering on. I don't like this at all.

A resource can't move THROUGH an enemy ZOC. It can move out of a ZOC or into a ZOC but not do both in the same hex.

Period. I'm getting very, very tired of this...

Now if the rules had been written like this to begin with then........


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Post #: 186
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 5/31/2013 2:11:51 AM   
Extraneous

 

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Hay Centuur didn't I gave you full credit in My post #184?

So paulderynck post #149 was wrong and he has been misleading me.

And you still don't understand why this has been confusing me?

I'm trying to fit his and your version of the rule together and they are exact opposites!

Why didn't you correct paulderynck then? It would have made more sense to me on what your positions are.



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Post #: 187
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 5/31/2013 6:17:20 PM   
gridley

 

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My name is David, I live in Caledon, and I would much rather you weren't doing...this.

And I for one disagree with Terry.

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Post #: 188
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/1/2013 1:34:21 AM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gridley

My name is David, I live in Caledon, and I would much rather you weren't doing...this.

And I for one disagree with Terry.


Ahhh you have no opinion on the rule but like the quote from Mr. Pratchett.




< Message edited by Extraneous -- 6/1/2013 10:27:15 AM >


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RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/1/2013 5:39:15 AM   
brian brian

 

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OK, look, here is how the whole rule, part of 13.6.1, really works. You continually ignore this sentence:

"It's move must stop when it enters an enemy ZoC."

A resource starts in Hex A in an enemy ZoC. If there is a friendly unit present, it may leave the hex. Upon entering the next hex, we check the rules, just as the MWiF program will:

"It's move must stop when it enters an enemy ZoC."

If there in Hex B, the first hex it is going to enter, there is an enemy ZoC, whether from the same unit or any other unit, the movement of the resource must stop. It may only enter a ZoC-ed Hex B at all if there is a friendly unit present, as per the first sentence of the two rules sentences under consideration in this ridiculously over-long thread on this. And note that second sentence does not prohibit entering an enemy ZoC at all, only the first sentence takes care of how that works.

"It's move must stop when it enters an enemy ZoC."

When you posted an example of a resource entering a hex from the east with an enemy ZoC exerted into that hex, and whether it could keep moving from a hex with an enemy ZoC, Centuur/Peter answered "No." Why?

"It's move must stop when it enters an enemy ZoC."

I am not sure why you want to keep trying to take apart the first sentence of the rule with Exclusive-OR and 'both' constructions, when there is absolutely no need to do so. The second sentence is a rule in force simultaneously with the first sentence, as are all WiF rules, such as the definition of a ZoC and all of the rest. The second sentence answers all other combinations of what happens around enemy ZoCs:

"It's move must stop when it enters an enemy ZoC."

When Paul (who volunteers to work on rules questions and issues for ADG in his own free time I believe) gave an example of a resource moving from the hex adjacent to Moscow into the factory in Moscow when both hexes are in enemy ZoC, this is perfectly correct and in agreement with what everyone else has been telling you, repeatedly. A resource can leave it's origin hex and move to an adjacent hex, even if both hexes are in an enemy ZoC, even a ZoC from the same enemy unit. Perhaps this qualifies as moving 'through' a ZoC, or doing 'both' or being an Exclusive-Or or an Inclusive-OR or whatever the heck you want to call it or set up a logic tree for. After it leaves it's origin Hex A and enters it's first hex away from home, Hex B, then we check the rule:

"It's move must stop when it enters an enemy ZoC."

No one is staking out a position on a controversial rule or trying to be confusing or inserting a posted idea from the Yahoo group from some random internet user somewhere in the world. I just looked and there is no FAQ entry on this rule, probably because it is so simplistically simple:

"It's move must stop when it enters an enemy ZoC."

Perhaps the question has been asked, because Plain Ian is correct in that it is easy to see a bit of confusion in that a resource can leave an enemy ZoC and enter an enemy ZoC in the next hex as long as friendly units are present in each hex (and only when leaving Hex A, or hex Zero, in it's path to hex One), as per the first sentence, but then, of course:

"It's move must stop when it enters an enemy ZoC."

Probably whenever this question has been asked, the answer has been accepted and play continues, instead of a never ending repeated response of "prove it", "but what if", and the old chestnut "why is the sky blue?"

I and probably the other people trying to answer rules questions in this thread have been playing World in Flames since the 1990s (1989, 3rd Edition, for me). We don't make up answers or try to mislead anyone. The rules are the rules, and that is how the game works.

"It's move must stop when it enters an enemy ZoC."

I have no interest in answering questions which are then met with this response each and every time repeatedly over and over again in an identical manner the same way constantly and continually.



Reportedly from an interview with Sid Vicious, deceased bass player in the Sex Pistols:

Q: Why do you bang your head against the wall?

A: Because it feels so good when I stop.


Now, let's stop with the head banging rules questions. If you want to continue, start a new head banging rules questions thread, of which there are already several I believe, and we can all post Quiet Riot videos in it.



Let's go back to Strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans, but let's move beyond needlessly early advancing the historical Axis strategy in the Balkans into the late fall of 1939. Historically, the Axis lost the war of course, though we will never be privy to how many objective cities the Axis bid. I am fairly sure Hitler bid for everything from the Rhine to the Urals, or about +10, and he got Zero, so he lost big time. Or maybe he got 2, as his perhaps by then only notional unit forces still held Prague and Kiel on May 1st, 1945, but then of course he was already dead, so he definitely lost. I think FDR walked away with it all courtesy of a negative bid as no one else wanted to sit around and do next-to-nothing for the first half-dozen game sessions.

So, what do you think of this Axis strategy in the Balkans, one that keeps the political initiative very firmly in Axis hands, and leaves Russian decision-making in the lurch:

S/O 39, Impulse 1: Germany DoW on Poland.

Impulse 2: CW & France DoW on Germany.

Impulse 3: Germany DoW Yugoslavia, align Rumania.

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 190
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/1/2013 11:21:07 AM   
Extraneous

 

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Brian I am trying to understand the way you all are playing the game and I am not ignoring anything.

Centuur and the first part of the rule states you can either enter, or leave, but you cannot do both.



This means you can only:

(Enter) move from a hex not in an enemy ZOC into a factory hex that is in an enemy ZOC if a friendly unit is in the factory hex.

Or (Leave) move away from a resource hex that is in an enemy ZOC if a friendly unit is in the hex to a hex not in an enemy ZOC.



But you cannot at any time (leave) move away from a resource hex that is in an enemy ZOC and (enter) into a factory hex that is in an enemy ZOC if a friendly unit is in the hex.

You can leave the resource hex if you go east but you cannot go west and enter the Moscow hex where the second part of the rule would come into play.

You cannot move a resource from a enemy ZOC to an enemy ZOC because it violates the first part of the rule.


< Message edited by Extraneous -- 6/1/2013 11:31:21 AM >


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RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/1/2013 2:04:15 PM   
gridley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Ahhh you have no opinion on the rule but like the quote from Mr. Pratchett.


Sorry, man...just a bad attempt at humour. Although your first response, before you edited it out, did make me laugh..."Who is Terry?"Lol

And my opinion of the rule would only echo those you have already heard and are not happy with. I would prefer not to get involved in the back and forth you favour.

Anyway, first let me say that the rules are what they are...A Masterpiece. Once you learn and play the game you will have this eureka moment when you realize just how connected everything is. How the rules give here and take there. Once we found this game, almost 20 years ago, we stopped playing anything else.

That being said the rules could have been written differently to avoid some misinterpretations. But it is what it is. We were fortunate enough to have a rules lawyer in our group. Was he right all the time...no. But, over the years, I'm sure we ended up playing most of the rules right. You are in the position to have a whole forum of members well versed in the rules. And instead of taking what they say at face value, trying it out in game, and seeing "ahhhh that's how it works". You seem to want to proove them wrong.

I don't think you can learn this game by just reading the rules. You have to read and play it together. I think you would be best served to wait for the games release and then get into it. Trust me when I say the rules governing how many units can leave a minor and rail movement are not the most complicated. I bet if you see the rules in action, in game, there would be no confusion on your part.

That's my 2 cents and I'm stickin' with it.


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Post #: 192
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/1/2013 3:04:30 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gridley


quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Ahhh you have no opinion on the rule but like the quote from Mr. Pratchett.


Sorry, man...just a bad attempt at humor. Although your first response, before you edited it out , did make me laugh..."Who is Terry?"Lol

And my opinion of the rule would only echo those you have already heard and are not happy with. I would prefer not to get involved in the back and forth you favour.

Anyway, first let me say that the rules are what they are...A Masterpiece. Once you learn and play the game you will have this eureka moment when you realize just how connected everything is. How the rules give here and take there. Once we found this game, almost 20 years ago, we stopped playing anything else.

That being said the rules could have been written differently to avoid some misinterpretations. But it is what it is. We were fortunate enough to have a rules lawyer in our group. Was he right all the time...no. But, over the years, I'm sure we ended up playing most of the rules right. You are in the position to have a whole forum of members well versed in the rules. And instead of taking what they say at face value, trying it out in game, and seeing "ahhhh that's how it works". You seem to want to prove them wrong.

I don't think you can learn this game by just reading the rules. You have to read and play it together. I think you would be best served to wait for the games release and then get into it. Trust me when I say the rules governing how many units can leave a minor and rail movement are not the most complicated. I bet if you see the rules in action, in game, there would be no confusion on your part.

That's my 2 cents and I'm stickin' with it.




I first thought you were taking an opinion. So I checked all the people posting none are a Terry. Then I realized you weren't and were referring to my signature.


You would be surprised about the differences in the way the rules have been interpreted.

At one time one of the people here thought you only had to declare war on a minor country once you could go to peace and then not have to check for US entry chits again. This concept has been proved to be wrong. Some people here had misinterpreted the rules for 20 years.

As you and others have suggested and I am trying to do is to give situations here in the forums to find out their reading of the rules. This section was to demonstrate the political strategy and land combat in the game, which it more or less has done.

As I have said we interpreted the rule to be a friendly unit negated the ZOC.

I want everyone to understand the rules so someone new to the game can play it.




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Post #: 193
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/1/2013 3:17:07 PM   
brian brian

 

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You are wrong. There is no word "both" in that first sentence, you keep projecting it there. It is two simple sentences that players use simultaneously to determine how the game system operates. I can not explain it again, but just when I thought I was out .... the second sentence does not prohibit entering a ZoC, nor does the first, though the first sentence qualifies the process. "Enter" means that the resource can cross the hex boundary into the other hex. My god this is insane, explaining the English language. If the resource enters a ZoC hex with a friendly unit present, and there it stops. The End.

I used to encourage you to buy a copy of the game and start playing it. I see now that a computer version of the game (regardless of AI inclusion) that enforces the rules for the players is a requirement for some players, who can then play the game and argue with their computer screen. Best of luck with that. God help the poor folks who will have to answer the mail at the Matrix help desk when a previously published game with printed rules is sold to the public.

I also think you are possibly deliberately trolling us. You are not trying to understand how the game works no matter how rudely or gently or humorously or clearly or slowly we explain it. We explain things, and you reject them. You are deliberately arguing on purpose. I wouldn't tolerate this for more than about 5 minutes in person before I would simply leave.

I'm done. This is an absurd waste of my my time, but I want more people in the world to play World in Flames, and I hate seeing the game put in a bad light. It is not that hard to play and enjoy. It is the best wargame I have ever discovered. Put this thread out of it's misery and delete the whole thing, please. I am more than a little tempted to just photobomb the thing with Pancake Bunny meeting Grumpy Cat and some Quiet Riot videos until that happens. Just quit it. To satisfy players like you, the rules would have to be three times as long and there would be 2/3 less players in the world. OK, I'm Done. Really. Goodbye.

(in reply to gridley)
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RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/1/2013 3:54:00 PM   
Numdydar

 

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The big disconnect here imho is that one side is looking at this a an IF statement and the other is looking at a loop if I may use programing trems . The rule is an IF. you look at where the resourse currently resides, Hex A which is in a ZoC with a friendly unit and do NOT evaluate where it will end up. Plus we do not care at all about ANYTHING else around it, what enemy unit(s) are exerting a ZoC, etc. All that matters is that we have a resource in a ZoC with a frinedly unit and we want to move it SOMEWHERE. At this point we do NOT evaulate where it is going. We just want to move it. The question is can we move it? The answer is Yes we can as the rule states we can leave a ZoC if a friendly unit is present in the hex. So the first part of the IF has been satisfied. Again please remember, we do NOT care at all right now as to where it is moving to, just that we have satitisfied that we can indeed move it.

So now the second IF comes into play. If the very first hex we move to, Hex B which also has an enemy ZoC exerted on it (again it does not matter where the ZoC is coming from) AND we also have a friendly unit in the hex, we can indeed move it there. This is because the rule states that a resource can enter a hex with an emeny ZoC as long as a friendly unit is in the hex BUT the resourse must stop moving if it does move there. Again we do NOT care where the resource was moving from at all.

So this effectively means that a resource can always move throuh a ZoC one hex at a time as long as it is moving from a friendly unit to a friendly unit. It also means that a reource could start in a hex with a friendly unit in a ZoC, move 100 hexes and be forced to stop moving if it somehow entered the 101st hex that was in an enemy ZoC with a friendly unit present. the distance between hexes has no impact on the rule.

So if you wanrt to see a code of how this works try the below Not the most ellegent code I have ever written lol. But hopefully it helps show what everything so far has not.

MoveEnd=1; Move will end if set to 1
HexMove=0; number of hexes move and the hex Id
HexZoc = 1; 0=no Zoc, 1=Zoc
FUnit = 1; 0=no friendy unit, 1=friendly unit present
If HexZoc = 1 then
If FriendlyUnit =1 then
MoveEnd = 0; Resourse can leave the hex as all rule conditions are met
Else
MoveEnd = 1
Endif
Else
MoveEnd = 0; no ZoC present in the hex it is LEAVING
LastHexMoved = HexMove
Endif
If MoveEnd = 0 then
HexMove=HexMove+1; resource moves a hex
Endif

While MoveEnd=0; Now we check to see if the hex(s) we just entered is in a Zoc or not so we can determine if we can keep moving or not

Read HexZoc, FUnit from HexStatusFile(HexMove); a fictional command that will read the hex data file to determine what the moved to hex status is. We will use HexZoC as the variable that will let us know if an enemy ZoC is exerted in the hex and FUnit to determine if a friendly unit is present or not
If HexZoC = 1 then
MoveEnd = 1; End of move for the resource is set
If FUnit =0 then ; no friendly unit present
HexMove = LastHexMoved; Back the unit up into the last hex it moved from error message sent to player to redo move
Endif
Esle
; Unit keeps moving since no ZoC was entered yet and While loop continues
Endif
End While

(in reply to gridley)
Post #: 195
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/2/2013 7:52:00 AM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

The big disconnect here imho is that one side is looking at this a an IF statement and the other is looking at a loop if I may use programming terms . The rule is an IF. you look at where the resource currently resides, Hex A which is in a ZoC with a friendly unit and do NOT evaluate where it will end up. Plus we do not care at all about ANYTHING else around it, what enemy unit(s) are exerting a ZoC, etc. All that matters is that we have a resource in a ZoC with a frinedly unit and we want to move it SOMEWHERE. At this point we do NOT evaluate where it is going. We just want to move it. The question is can we move it? The answer is Yes we can as the rule states we can leave a ZoC if a friendly unit is present in the hex. So the first part of the IF has been satisfied. Again please remember, we do NOT care at all right now as to where it is moving to, just that we have stultified that we can indeed move it.

So now the second IF comes into play. If the very first hex we move to, Hex B which also has an enemy ZoC exerted on it (again it does not matter where the ZoC is coming from) AND we also have a friendly unit in the hex, we can indeed move it there. This is because the rule states that a resource can enter a hex with an emeny ZoC as long as a friendly unit is in the hex BUT the resource must stop moving if it does move there. Again we do NOT care where the resource was moving from at all.

So this effectively means that a resource can always move through a ZoC one hex at a time as long as it is moving from a friendly unit to a friendly unit. It also means that a resource could start in a hex with a friendly unit in a ZoC, move 100 hexes and be forced to stop moving if it somehow entered the 101st hex that was in an enemy ZoC with a friendly unit present. the distance between hexes has no impact on the rule.

So this effectively means that a resource can always move through a ZoC one hex at a time as long as it is moving from a friendly unit to a friendly unit. It also means that a resource could start in a hex with a friendly unit in a ZoC, move 100 hexes and be forced to stop moving if it somehow entered the 101st hex that was in an enemy ZoC with a friendly unit present. The distance between hexes has no impact on the rule.


If I read this right you just wrote that you understand the rule to be a friendly unit negates the ZOC, which is how we read the rule.

This is not the consensus of the developer and the beta testers.



The following doesn't pertain to Numdydar.

There are 2 sentences, which means 2 parts to the rule.

1) The resource’s move can only enter or leave a hex in an enemy ZOC if there is a friendly land unit in the hex.

2) Its move must stop when it enters an enemy ZOC.


The only way your interpretation of the rule would work is if the rule read:

The resource’s move must stop when it enters an enemy ZOC. It can only enter or leave a hex in an enemy ZOC if there is a friendly land unit in the hex.


Let me paraphrase you all "what part of the first part of the rule don't you understand?"



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University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 196
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/2/2013 9:28:47 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
All right. Enough on this.

Communications on this rule using posts isn't working for anyone's benefit here.

I have never done this before in the past 8 years, but in this instance I say: STOP.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 197
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/2/2013 12:43:01 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
Can we conclude that Axis declaring war on Greece, given the situation in this thread, should be delayed until 1940 (or later)?

If Axis attacks Greece during 1939 then they might gain control of the resource but are unlikely to conquer Greece during 1939. Therefore Allies might be able to gain a US entry action die roll for Allies support attacked minor. They might also gain the possibility to align Yugoslavia.

Could we agree on this?

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 198
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/2/2013 3:19:14 PM   
Extraneous

 

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Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm
Can we conclude that Axis declaring war on Greece, given the situation in this thread, should be delayed until 1940 (or later)?

If Axis attacks Greece during 1939 then they might gain control of the resource but are unlikely to conquer Greece during 1939. Therefore Allies might be able to gain a US entry action die roll for Allies support attacked minor. They might also gain the possibility to align Yugoslavia.

Could we agree on this?


No, I will give no details Steve wants this thread to be stopped.


A summary of positive aspects of this thread we discussed:

Some strategies (good and bad),
Weather,
Initiative,
Intelligence,
Strategic bombardment,
Combat moves,
Shore bombardment,
Air support,
Amphibious invasions,
And invasions of minor countries.

Having started this thread I also suggest it end now.



_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 199
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/4/2013 4:19:45 PM   
Mike Parker

 

Posts: 583
Joined: 12/30/2008
From: Houston TX
Status: offline
I believe Steve said stop bickering over a rule.... the original topic on an early Axis war in the balkans is perfectly acceptable, just stop the arguments about the resource movement rules.

As with everything it depends on what is going on in the game. In general given competent commonwealth play it seems that an early adventure by the Axis in the balkans is not a very good idea. Maybe you like to gamble though, or maybe the CW player did something especially odd in setup or on impulse 2 that allows you to try something in the balkans.

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 200
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/4/2013 8:49:19 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Parker

I believe Steve said stop bickering over a rule.... the original topic on an early Axis war in the Balkans is perfectly acceptable, just stop the arguments about the resource movement rules.

Yes.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 6/4/2013 8:50:15 PM >


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Mike Parker)
Post #: 201
RE: strategy and its repercussions in the Balkans - 6/8/2013 9:49:55 AM   
timrt

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 8/2/2008
Status: offline
May I please join the obvious fun that everyone is having discussing a set of words. There is a logic game that I would suggest might add even more enjoyment to this ever decreasing circuitous debate and its called "WFF 'N PROOF". I would highly recommend it.

As to this game & its on going development, I wish it well and do genuinely hope that soon it may emerge as intended.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 202
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