Strange Finland behavior

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Strange Finland behavior - 4/22/2013 12:38:04 PM

Grimnirsson

Posts: 132
Joined: 12/25/2011
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Playing the Lightning War Scenario both as USSR against the AI and in a PbEM game as USSR against another Axis human (rest is AI controlled).

I don't understand the following situation:

I as the USSR declare war on Finland and bring in troops to capture Helsinki. Finland surrenders via End of Winter War event...and after that Finland is neutral again and all my units that were on Finish territory are gone.

I had the same situation in the PbEM game. I didn't declare war on Finland though and attacked/marched in. Helsinki had a Finland unit protecting it, I destroyed all enemy units and conquered Helsinki. The next PbEM turn had Finland back to neutral, all my units were gone and Helsinki was empty - no unit there. There was no mentioning of the Winter War event in the reports.

So, why is Finland suddenly neutral again after it surrendered to the USSR? And why are my units destroyed/deleted?

< Message edited by Grimnirsson -- 4/22/2013 4:36:50 PM >

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RE: Strange Finland behavior - 4/22/2013 2:58:43 PM

baloo7777

Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline

Have just experienced the same thing playing as USSR in Lightening War PBEM game. I did not declare war, but saw that the USSR had in the event reports. So I sent troops in that turn. On the next turn all troops were gone and the border was re-drawn. I looked in the events and found that the USSR had accepted Finland's surrender via Winter War. I had a boost of over 100 PP's and all my units near Finland (including a fighter unit on USSR territory that had flown an air recon over Helsinki last turn) were ready for deployment in my units in reserve area! Not saying I minded, just not sure if I need to garrison border, as Finland is listed as Neutral now?!

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JRR

(in reply to Grimnirsson)

Post #: 2

RE: Strange Finland behavior - 4/22/2013 5:08:30 PM

Rasputitsa

Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: baloo7777

Have just experienced the same thing playing as USSR in Lightening War PBEM game. I did not declare war, but saw that the USSR had in the event reports. So I sent troops in that turn. On the next turn all troops were gone and the border was re-drawn. I looked in the events and found that the USSR had accepted Finland's surrender via Winter War. I had a boost of over 100 PP's and all my units near Finland (including a fighter unit on USSR territory that had flown an air recon over Helsinki last turn) were ready for deployment in my units in reserve area! Not saying I minded, just not sure if I need to garrison border, as Finland is listed as Neutral now?!

I haven't played this scenario yet, but I suppose that when the Axis attacks the USSR and depending on their success, they may be able to use diplomatic pressure to bring Finland in against you. Your judgement on a border garrison is based on how likely this is to happen.

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(in reply to baloo7777)

Post #: 3

RE: Strange Finland behavior - 4/22/2013 7:19:45 PM

Grimnirsson

Posts: 132
Joined: 12/25/2011
Status: offline

quote:

when the Axis attacks the USSR and depending on their success, they may be able to use diplomatic pressure to bring Finland in against you

When I as the USSR attack Finland/declare war and Finland surrenders and my units are in Helsinki and all around...how on earth can Finland become neutral in the next turn and all my units are gone? That's the situation, not some diplomacy sorcery of the Axis to bring Finland on their side to join their attack on the USSR.

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Post #: 4

RE: Strange Finland behavior - 4/22/2013 10:14:26 PM

Rasputitsa

Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grimnirsson

quote:

when the Axis attacks the USSR and depending on their success, they may be able to use diplomatic pressure to bring Finland in against you

When I as the USSR attack Finland/declare war and Finland surrenders and my units are in Helsinki and all around...how on earth can Finland become neutral in the next turn and all my units are gone? That's the situation, not some diplomacy sorcery of the Axis to bring Finland on their side to join their attack on the USSR.

My comments are a response to the question on whether to garrison the Finland/USSR border after Finnish neutrality, as in the original by baloo7777, quoted in my contribution. I said, quote 'I haven't played this scenario yet' don't know anything about your problem, haven't tried to answer your problem, my comments have nothing to do with your problem. My comments are about what might bring the Finns back into the fight if the Axis attacks the USSR.

However, does baloo7777 have the answer to your problem, are your missing forces in the deployment box. I am assuming that when the Finns surrender, Stalin gets what he wants, the border is re-drawn to Stalin's demand, the Finns become neutral and the victorious Soviet forces are ready to be redeployed, so instead of ranting at me perhaps you should read what baloo7777 has said, which seems more relevant to you.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 4/22/2013 10:16:53 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Strange Finland behavior - 4/22/2013 11:37:27 PM

Grimnirsson

Posts: 132
Joined: 12/25/2011
Status: offline

Ras,

sorry if I came across as ranting at you, that was not my intention. I was posting in a hurry and so perhaps sounded too harsh, I apologize and will check if the units get back to the deployment box in my next test game.

Thanks.

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Post #: 6

RE: Strange Finland behavior - 4/23/2013 10:03:10 AM

Grimnirsson

Posts: 132
Joined: 12/25/2011
Status: offline

Ok, tried that two times now against the AI and it seems you are right - the units go into the deployment box, Finland changes back to neutral and must be 'conquered' again to actually change diplomacy status to USSR territory. But strangely enough the deployment box was empty in the PbEM game where the same thing happened. Also now I got a CTD two times in a row :(

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Post #: 7

RE: Strange Finland behavior - 4/23/2013 4:14:30 PM

baloo7777

Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline

I am currently running 2 PBEM games at the same time. Several times, after I finish a turn in one and return to the multiplayer, when I choose the other and try to play it, I get a CTD. I had assumed it was because I was using an older computer with win XP, but perhaps if it�s happening to others, it�s due to a glitch in TOF. In any case, if I shut down and re-enter the desktop icon, I can connect and play the other PBEM game without any issues.
I was wondering about the choosing of event options in PBEM, as I am a newbie to this game (sort of). Does the computer make event choices for a players country(s), as I believe these options are coming up during or in between the opponents turn?

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JRR

(in reply to Grimnirsson)

Post #: 8

RE: Strange Finland behavior - 4/23/2013 5:32:17 PM

Rasputitsa

Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grimnirsson
Ras,
sorry if I came across as ranting at you, that was not my intention. I was posting in a hurry and so perhaps sounded too harsh, I apologize and will check if the units get back to the deployment box in my next test game.
Thanks.

This game is a roller-coaster ride of great experiences and exasperating frustration, I not sure if I like the scale of the Lightning war scenario, but watching your progress with interest, got my hands full thinking about adapting Fall Gelb and Gotterdammerung.