RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov)

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov)

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov)

Page: << < prev 7 8 [9] 10 11 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/20/2013 2:30:57 AM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

Stalin did not kill off...90% of all commanders all the way down to company level??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

Do you even read the materials that you cite? Obviously not...

You state above that 90% of commanders to company level were killed. This is so fantastically, unbelievably wrong I'm not sure what to say. To quote the source that you cite ('ve helpfully bolded the wording which completely contradict the point you are trying to make):
***************
At first it was thought 25-50% of Red Army officers were purged, it is now known to be 3.7-7.7%. Previously, the size of the Red Army officer corps was underestimated, and it was overlooked that most of those purged were merely expelled from the Party. Thirty percent of officers purged in 1937-9 were allowed to return to service.
*********************
So to recap:
--At most, 7.7% of the Red Army officers were purged.
--Most of the purged officers were expelled from the Communist party, not killed.
--30% of purged officers were allowed to return to service.

quote:

I will again stick to historical facts...

haha. I wish I could say that I thought you had a good sense of humor, but I think you really believe your drivel...

I stick to facts and not Stalins fairytales

Stalin had about 3/4 of the senior officers murdered
3 of 5 Field Marshals were murdered
13 of 15 army commanders disappeared
7 of 57 Corp commanders lived the others hmm disappeared
only 32 of 186 divisional commanders survived
11 of the assistant commissars and 98 out of 108 men on military soviet disappeared.

Khrushchev admitted to Churchill that atleast 10 million people died in the Holodomor

76mm stop drinking Stalins coolade the walls been down for decades.

Yes its a little higher then 4% son.

Not KIA, simply murdered by Stalin long before the War started.

The Great Terror and Hitler vs Stalin

Be some good reading to get out of the Fog.

Your not one of these guys like ChiChester that think the holocaust never really happened are you?

< Message edited by Pelton -- 6/20/2013 2:33:50 AM >

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 241

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/20/2013 3:11:28 AM

mmarquo

Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline

"All the good generals who had the units far behind the border and dug in were shot 3 to 5 yrs before June 1941."

Rokossovsky was not a good officer?????

(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 242

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/20/2013 4:39:06 AM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

"All the good generals who had the units far behind the border and dug in were shot 3 to 5 yrs before June 1941."

Rokossovsky was not a good officer?????

Well, he wasn't shot, so........... :)

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 6/20/2013 4:44:31 AM >

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to mmarquo)

Post #: 243

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/20/2013 5:09:35 AM

76mm

Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
I stick to facts and not Stalins fairytales

I believe I've already demonstrated otherwise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Stalin had about 3/4 of the senior officers murdered
3 of 5 Field Marshals were murdered
13 of 15 army commanders disappeared
7 of 57 Corp commanders lived the others hmm disappeared
only 32 of 186 divisional commanders survived
11 of the assistant commissars and 98 out of 108 men on military soviet disappeared.

Well, duh, who has ever said that the purges did not strike the senior Red Army leadership hard? Maybe even you can understand the huge gap between the figures above and your previous statement that 90% of officers down to company level were killed? Or maybe not...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
76mm stop drinking Stalins coolade the walls been down for decades.

Be some good reading to get out of the Fog.

You apparently know nothing about me, Russia, or the Red Army, or you would find your statement about "drinking Stalins coolade" or your recommendation to "be some reading" [sic] as funny as I do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Your not one of these guys like ChiChester that think the holocaust never really happened are you?

I see how it works; I show that one of your preposterous statements is wildly wrong, using your own source, and you decide to call me some sort of Nazi? Nice one--you are an intellectually dishonest bully, and your statement above is completely inappropriate and unacceptable.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 6/20/2013 5:16:23 AM >

(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 244

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/20/2013 7:09:17 AM

HITMAN202

Posts: 714
Joined: 11/10/2011
Status: offline

Guys, Sillyflower and I are taking notes. This is first rate thrash talk !!!! All you need now are a few pics. Here's one

[image][/image]...

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

WITE is a good addiction with no cure.

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 245

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/20/2013 8:06:40 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

The facts are:

2. Russian units only trained to do offensive tactics. None of the 4 fronts had a single plan to do defensive operations, NONE. All the plans were for offensive operations.
3. All the divisions were in positions to conduct a counter attack or and out right offensive on the western borders with Germany.

Stalin would not and shot anyone who disagreed with his strategy.

You really are a bundle of charm aren't you.

Ok, lets take #2. PPs 64-72, of John Erickson's Road to Stalingrad covers a command conference of the Red Army in December 1940 - Jan 1941.

I go down to the list of major presentations, p. 65 - "General IV Tyulenev - The nature of modern defensive operations". Now forgive me, but that sounds like planning for the defense (and Stalin was present at the time).

It goes on to discuss a debate between Romannenko and Zhukov about the lessons from Khalkhin Gol. Zhukov put forward the view favoured by Stalin, Budenny et al. Romanenko survived. Same source p. 79, significant debate, with Stalin (& Mekhlis et al) present about the lessons from the conference and the resulting wargames.

This is not to argue that the USSR was some democratic paradise or that the Red Army was open house for anyone's ideas. But then, unless I've missed the examples, not many armed forces are. Equally, yes of course the purges did a lot of damage, and one problem the Red Army had in early 1941 was how to smuggle Tukhachevski's ideas back in but not mention him by name.

Now Erickson was, by no stretch of the imagination, a communist. He could though read Russian and unusually in the Cold War had wide access to the Stavka archives (as well as able to interview people like Koniev). In part as the Soviet general staff recognised he could tell them things about the conduct of the Great Patriotic War - in particular without needing to fit any 'lessons' into whatever was the current orthodoxy.

_____________________________

(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 246

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/20/2013 9:16:01 AM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

I suppose he could read Glantz's "Stumbling Colossus" The Red Army was poorly trained, inadequately equipped, ineptly organized, and consequently incapable of engaging in large-scale military campaigns�and both Hitler and Stalin knew it. It certainly was in no shape for an offensive campaign.

But Glantz isn't that popular some.

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 247

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/20/2013 5:48:43 PM

TulliusDetritus

Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone�
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kamil

quote:

SigUp

Man, this looks brutal... MT is a skilled player, but I'm amazed at what the engine allows. Wish you good luck!

Don't worry it will get even more ridiculous.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Michael is indeed creating a big big big mess!

_____________________________

a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 248

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/20/2013 11:42:59 PM

sillyflower

Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Guys, Sillyflower and I are taking notes. This is first rate thrash talk !!!! All you need now are a few pics. Here's one

[image][/image]...

Did someone put a camera in your work computer Dr H? You really should not have put our game on it.

_____________________________

web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to HITMAN202)

Post #: 249

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/20/2013 11:49:27 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

PLEASE STOP OFF TOPIC DISCUSSIONS

(in reply to sillyflower)

Post #: 250

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/21/2013 9:51:14 AM

juret

Posts: 198
Joined: 10/17/2011
Status: offline

ye i wannna read the aar. not off topic stuff

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 251

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/23/2013 10:54:42 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T11 north (Soviet)

Leningrad is well and truly lost.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to juret)

Post #: 252

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/23/2013 10:57:32 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T11 Moscow (Soviet)

Northern approaches to capital are defended with sufficient strength at the moment.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 253

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/23/2013 10:59:30 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T11 centre (Soviet)

Valuable time has been gained here.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 254

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/23/2013 11:01:33 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T11 south (Soviet)

I think I will be able to hold river for one, maybe two turn at most.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 255

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/23/2013 11:14:17 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T12 north (German)

Not many German divisions are left near Leningrad. I fear they will reaper near Moscow in 2-3 turns.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 256

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/23/2013 11:16:18 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T12 Moscow (German)

My lines are safe for time being here.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 257

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/23/2013 11:18:06 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T12 centre (German)

Without more reinforcements Michael won't crack my defences here either.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 258

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/23/2013 11:21:23 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T12 south (German)

I am really surprised, that my lines were not broken here, but unfortunately German flanking manoeuvre will force me to spread out my forces. It might end up in massive pocket.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kamil -- 6/23/2013 11:22:14 PM >

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 259

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/23/2013 11:36:15 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T12 north (Soviet)

I managed to save majority of forces fighting outside of Leningrad.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 260

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/23/2013 11:38:24 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T12 Moscow (Soviet)

As more and more reinforcements arrive I am able to add some depth do my defences.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 261

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/23/2013 11:42:07 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T12 centre (Soviet)

All should be quiet here next turn as well.

All my predictions during current turn sound so optimistic, that I somehow fear that I am for big and unpleasant surprise.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kamil -- 6/23/2013 11:48:16 PM >

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 262

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/23/2013 11:44:42 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T12 south (Soviet)

If I got it right Michael should not have enough petrol to penetrate deep enough to create crippling pocket.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kamil -- 6/23/2013 11:48:37 PM >

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 263

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 6/25/2013 5:00:36 AM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

Moscow should hold IF MT can't make a real push turn 13.

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 264

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 7/1/2013 8:43:18 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T13 north & Moscow (German)

I feel there is genuine chance of survival.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 265

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 7/1/2013 8:48:20 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T13 centre (German)

German penetration is really deep but spearhead is really weak now. My lines are secure until further notice.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 266

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 7/1/2013 8:50:30 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T13 south (German)

Situation got out of control here. I really can't afford to lose any more industry. This can be lethal blow.

Moreover panzer corps managed to capture bridge-head east of Rostov.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kamil -- 7/1/2013 9:04:21 PM >

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 267

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 7/1/2013 9:13:16 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T13 north (Soviet)

Upper Volga line looks strong for time being.

(Unfortunately I lost screen-shots so I can't properly show it.)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kamil -- 7/1/2013 9:20:15 PM >

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 268

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 7/1/2013 9:16:19 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T14 Moscow (Soviet)

Without panzers Michael won't be able to do much damage here.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 269

RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) - 7/1/2013 9:19:31 PM

KamilS

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline

T13 centre (Soviet)

As long as city of Gorky is safe I am happy to have German panzers roam here instead of fighting them at Moscow's gates.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kamil -- 7/1/2013 9:21:43 PM >

(in reply to KamilS)

Post #: 270

Page: << < prev 7 8 [9] 10 11 next > >>

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: Micheal T (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov)