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RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/4/2013 5:05:57 PM   
Lokasenna


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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: buckaroo13


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


If you scroll up a little...

It's mostly meant for PBEM, it seems. There are AI scripts if you are playing the Allies.



Thanks, I understood that. I meant is the Japanese AI of the same caliber as the official full campaigns?



Ahhh. Apologies for misreading.

I think maybe you'll just have to try it and find out . Not sure anybody knows as yet! IIRC pcellsworth just did them the other week.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 6/4/2013 5:06:14 PM >

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Post #: 31
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/4/2013 5:12:45 PM   
buckaroo13

 

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quote:

Lokasenna

Ahhh. Apologies for misreading.

I think maybe you'll just have to try it and find out . Not sure anybody knows as yet! IIRC pcellsworth just did them the other week.


Cool, even though I'm late to the while WiTP:AE Party I can still be on the cutting edge. I think I'll try and install this tonight and give it a go.

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Post #: 32
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/4/2013 11:39:48 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
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From: Vancouver, Washington
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quote:

@Spence: thanks for the info. That's stuff I didn't know, and we don't ever have to deal with it in the game. In a May '42 start, it would be neat if those ships started with those alterations. Put them both in the shipyard even though it's May 1.


What the Japanese conducted in early 1942 was something of a "Surge Operation". It could not go on forever and so for a while just about the start of this scenario they were in the position of having to maintain/repair their ships (particularly the KB) which had been operating without a significant M&R period for 5 months. Failure to scrape the barnacles off the bottom means reduced speed and increased fuel consumption. Boilers need to be re-tubed and re-bricked (requires a cold plant) or speed is lost and fuel consumption goes up. Lots of stuff to do and no time spent doing it (need a drydock and a cold plant) between Pearl Harbor and the Coral Sea.
Only the Main Battle Fleet wasn't running itself ragged during that time (But then again 2 out 7 of those ships still suffered nearly catastrophic casualties).

A couple of the KONGO's and the CHIKUMA/TONE cruisers both went into the yard for a bit towards the end of April. Weren't in there very long but they were not available at the very beginning of the scenario.

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Post #: 33
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/5/2013 2:58:07 AM   
pcellsworth

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 4/28/2013
Status: offline 		Everybody was getting ready for Midway. Some gunnery practice and minor repairs. I can represent this with non-major system damage.

It would be easier to start later in May but Japanese activities in the Coral Sea early in May are important for future direction of events.

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Post #: 34
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/5/2013 3:18:29 AM   
pcellsworth

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 4/28/2013
Status: offline 		Issues for me to look into (some of these will force the scripts to change btw)
1. 11th Sentai, 50th Sentai, and 64th Sentai only Oscar I ac.
2. Saratoga with unusual damage (She became available May 25th in SD so I will change her start date and remove damage).
3. Are the original scripts realistic for playing Japan vs Allies as computer.
4. B5N and D3A pools too large.
5. Kaga and other major ships repairing or refitting in Japan.

I'll check the majors tonight. Then I'll have to think about the script changes.

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Post #: 35
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/5/2013 4:08:53 AM   
cohimbra


Posts: 632
Joined: 10/15/2011
From: Italy
Status: offline 		About point 4, I'll take the liberty of suggesting you to look also at the G3M3 pool;
there are 203 a/c in the pool, and this model can be produced since 05/42.

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Post #: 36
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/5/2013 10:15:19 AM   
quertice


Posts: 248
Joined: 9/9/2007
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I would have in a future a pbem with your scenario with historic japan air industry, so i have searched in USSBS the historic japan production in may '42 for every type of airframe and engine
pcellsworth, are you interested to implement this data in scenario to make it more historical?

by now i have found data( i have searched in USSBS reports dedicated at every aeronautical industry, i have found all them on scribd, there is the list to know what to search http://www.scribd.com/doc/37153340/USSBS-List-of-Reports-Pacific-War ; data are into chartes or appendix of reports), when i'll have free time i'll put every data in a only one chart

< Message edited by qwetry -- 6/5/2013 10:17:50 AM >

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Post #: 37
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/6/2013 1:45:11 AM   
quertice


Posts: 248
Joined: 9/9/2007
From: Italy
Status: offline 		in USSBS there are even data about japan production, so it is possible to estimate how much increased HI, armament, and vehicle factory from stock scenario to may '42

pcellsworth, you writed "I made a slight increase to Japan's industry - small enough not to change game balance - but an improvement in their industrial base that would be similar to what they would have done historically.", have you done this improvement in japan industry refering on historic data? if no, i can estimate these data by USSBS, like i wrote also for air production

< Message edited by qwetry -- 6/6/2013 2:01:49 AM >

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Post #: 38
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/6/2013 12:11:37 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		The question of Japanese a/c production is an important beginning point for this scenario.

I mentioned before that "Shattered Sword" recounts that the Japanese High Command, prematurely anticipating the imminent arrival of the D4Y and B6N, shut down production of the D3 and B5; leading to a shortage of replacement a/c which severely impacted the number of a/c carried by the Kido Butai et al into the Battle of Midway and the Aleutian Campaign.

The number of D3A1's produced was about 470 +/-. I have added up the number of D3A1s in this scenario:

POOL: 303
ZUIKAKU, SHOKAKU, KAGA, HIRYU, SORYU: 24 each = 120
AKAGI: 25
JUNYO: 18
LAND BASED IN 3 UNITS: 27
TO BE PRODUCED PRIOR AUGUST 42 (D3A2 PRODUCTION STARTS): 39 (assuming no increase)

TOTAL: 532

ABOUT 60 MORE THAN WERE EVER PRODUCED ASSUMING NO COMBAT OR OPERATIONAL LOSSES SINCE THE A/C
WAS INTRODUCED IN 1940 (including no less than 6 months of high intensity operations).




< Message edited by spence -- 6/6/2013 12:12:47 PM >

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 39
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/6/2013 3:25:45 PM   
quertice


Posts: 248
Joined: 9/9/2007
From: Italy
Status: offline 		so have kate and val pools to be almost empty(less than 10 units?) in this scenario?

< Message edited by qwetry -- 6/6/2013 3:26:57 PM >

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Post #: 40
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/6/2013 10:31:06 PM   
spence

 

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From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		I am not sure what the appropriate levels would be for Vals/Kates but surely no where near 300 of each type in the pool while all the carriers are "topped off" as well. Shokaku and Zuikaku sailed for the Coral Sea operation with 22 and 19 Vals respectively. They suffered very significant losses of airframes if not so much pilots. Zuikaku's air group was too beaten up to go to Midway but it was reconstituted shortly after the Battle. The rest of the KB sailed for Midway with 18 Vals each. According to "Shattered Sword" Junyo had 15 D3As in the Aleutians.

Real war is not a game. The only reason that the KB would have been sent off to THE (self proclaimed) DECISIVE BATTLE with reduced air groups was because the airframes were not there.

My hypothesis would be that production was shut down and conversion to the more advanced types was begun BUT production was restarted relatively rapidly as it became apparent that the D4Y was not going to show up imminently. It is of note that there seems to be an increase in the number of different factories producing the D3A2 starting about August 42 and that the carrier battles in the Solomons didn't happen while the D3A1 was the only game in town.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 41
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/7/2013 3:38:23 AM   
pcellsworth

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 4/28/2013
Status: offline 		The Val pool is now 23 ac, Kate is 3 and 11. I also changed the B5N1 to only bombs as it was not strong enough to carry a torpedo - both model 11 (770hp) and model 21 (970hp). Only the B5N2 carried the torpedo.

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 42
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/7/2013 3:52:35 AM   
pcellsworth

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 4/28/2013
Status: offline 		I've researched the location of all the major ships, CA, BB, CV and CVLs - so I can change the starting TFs and scripts to reflect this data.

May not be as exciting of a start as it will be June before most of navy is available.

I will call the new version 2.0 so those who like to continue to play version 1.0 may do so.

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Post #: 43
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/8/2013 10:44:43 AM   
quertice


Posts: 248
Joined: 9/9/2007
From: Italy
Status: offline 		have you considered this? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3224336

i'm refering to the last post:
"Sam did a fabulous job with the database, everything anyone could wish, but the game requires a bit more than that. Turns out the code for the econ model can't handle a 6 month shift; it gets verlumpt, verblundgered and verkackt. It eats itself because of the specific way that time is calculated in many (most?) of the algorithms."

same problem should have this scenario


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Post #: 44
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/10/2013 4:10:22 PM   
Symon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: qwetry
have you considered this? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3224336

same problem should have this scenario

Pcellsworth's scenario should work just fine. I believe pcellsworth kept to the standard database slot locations and the various definitions.

The Babes scenario, refered to above, has massive database changes. The code cannot handle what we did there very well.

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(in reply to quertice)
Post #: 45
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/10/2013 5:53:25 PM   
quertice


Posts: 248
Joined: 9/9/2007
From: Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon


quote:

ORIGINAL: qwetry
have you considered this? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3224336

same problem should have this scenario

Pcellsworth's scenario should work just fine. I believe pcellsworth kept to the standard database slot locations and the various definitions.

The Babes scenario, refered to above, has massive database changes. The code cannot handle what we did there very well.



understood, thanks for reply

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Post #: 46
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/10/2013 11:16:05 PM   
pcellsworth

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 4/28/2013
Status: offline 		Just a quick update. In the first version I tested for several game months and although I didn't specifically look at the economy - I didn't notice any problems. I've made some changes for version 2. Major ships have been relocated to the May 1st positions. I started to modify the starting task forces (they lose a lot of strength because of the major ship relocation changes). It will be hard to get as much punch as version 1 but have some ideas to try. I did do a test with what I have changed so far (version 2). I specifically looked at the economy and it looks like it is functioning okay. Based on the test of version 1 and the short test of version 2 any major problem with the economy must be down the road like a year or two out.

Kaga and Akagi (after Kaga becomes available) form a task force and heads to Rabaul very quickly giving the Japanese forces some extra punch in the Coral Sea area. This was a script created TF generated by the AI and is encouraging. You can't control the ships that go into a TF only give it a size. It means I can modify the scripts and add new scripts to make things interesting for the allied player.

A battle was fought in the Coral Sea. Japan lost the Shokaku with Zuikaku moderately damaged while the US lost the Lexington and a lightly damaged Yorktown. Shoho was not attacked but her aircraft found and damaged some of the Allied Cruisers and Destroyers. Japan succeeded in landing at Port Moresby. This is kind of opposite of the historical where the Allies won a strategic victory and the Japanese a tactical victory. Here the Japanese won a Strategic victory while the allies won a tactical victory. (An interesting result for my test run).

Junyo wasn't operational until May 27th (just in time for Midway sailings) and so I changed her date to that date. Aircraft pools for Val and Kate significantly reduced. (I can't imagine why the Japanese shut down those production lines before their replacements were in production and ready. The Vals and Kates could be used in secondary areas if there were extras. It is just another example of the Japanese thinking in terms of a short war).

It may be a while before I get everything finished. My wife has plans for this week, next week she starts summer school and I will have more time. Also this project has to share my time with a mod to RA (where I added battleships as if there were no treaty and Japan went ahead with 8-8-8. What can I say - I like battleships even though they are not as useful as people thought they might be pre-war. I want to test this out although for the Japanese it will probably be a drain on their fuel reserves without a lot of combat benefits. It could put a hurt on the allies trying to slow the Japanese advance. Prince of Wales and Repulse against a Kii and Tosa could be an interesting match up.

Changes are coming along for version 2 but I can't give you a date for uploading yet other than sometime next week.


< Message edited by pcellsworth -- 6/11/2013 4:32:42 PM >

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Post #: 47
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/11/2013 9:03:30 PM   
mikkey


Posts: 3142
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From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		thanks for update pcellsworth

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RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/11/2013 9:54:39 PM   
sitito

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 1/2/2010
From: Spain
Status: offline 		Excellent news!!

Should i wait in the fence for v2 or v1 is complete stable and its worth the try?

Thanxs

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Post #: 49
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/11/2013 10:02:47 PM   
pcellsworth

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 4/28/2013
Status: offline 		As best I can tell version 1 is stable, just not completely historical. That is what prompted the changes for version 2 - which is much closer to historical. I ran version 1 for a few months without any problems.

(in reply to sitito)
Post #: 50
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/12/2013 8:22:07 AM   
sitito

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 1/2/2010
From: Spain
Status: offline 		I will wait then...

Thanks for ur fantastic job!!

(in reply to pcellsworth)
Post #: 51
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/16/2013 6:02:42 PM   
jakla1027

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 7/7/2010
From: Idaho
Status: offline 		Hi, just wondering how version 2.0 is coming along?

Thanks for all the hard work!

(in reply to sitito)
Post #: 52
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/23/2013 12:09:03 AM   
pcellsworth

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 4/28/2013
Status: offline 		Still testing. I had to make some changes - some things now working as well as I had hoped.

(in reply to jakla1027)
Post #: 53
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/23/2013 3:38:27 AM   
jakla1027

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 7/7/2010
From: Idaho
Status: offline 		Any estimate on when you'll be done with V2.0?

Cant wait!!!

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Post #: 54
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 6/30/2013 10:14:42 PM   
pcellsworth

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 4/28/2013
Status: offline 		Uploaded Version 2.0 - enjoy

Major warship locations historical, with refit delays added as appropriate.
Added / modified china scripts
Added / modified Burma scripts

< Message edited by pcellsworth -- 6/30/2013 10:15:31 PM >

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Post #: 55
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 7/1/2013 5:08:14 AM   
jakla1027

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 7/7/2010
From: Idaho
Status: offline 		Thank You Sir!!!!

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Post #: 56
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 7/1/2013 6:36:44 AM   
sitito

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 1/2/2010
From: Spain
Status: offline 		Thank u so much!!!!

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Post #: 57
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 10/10/2013 2:50:15 AM   
Professor Chaos

 

Posts: 87
Joined: 9/25/2013
Status: offline 		Any chance of a "Quiet China" version of this scenario?

I'm trying to muster the courage to start a full campaign and it seems like the May 1942 start would make things easier. But even more so if I could ignore the China front.

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Post #: 58
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 1/3/2014 5:48:16 AM   
jakla1027

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 7/7/2010
From: Idaho
Status: offline 		I've been away from the forums for a while. Has their been any updates to this GC MOD?

thanks

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Post #: 59
RE: Grand Campaign May 42 - 8/5/2014 11:34:24 AM   
jakla1027

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 7/7/2010
From: Idaho
Status: offline 		Bump

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Post #: 60
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