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RE: Map Making Steps - 5/30/2013 3:05:28 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I only do the primary road net. The secondary and town areas do not get created with the main road net. I am looking for roads wide enough for tanks to move down.

The small secondary road did not get placed as part of the road net. Marked with the black arrow.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 61
RE: Map Making Steps - 5/30/2013 3:16:40 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Where it makes no difference to the road net I smooth it out.

Like this corner that is barely in another hex.

Good Hunting.

MR




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_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 62
RE: Map Making Steps - 5/30/2013 3:33:39 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I put the road together in any fashion that works.

Especially for an especially twisty section of road.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 63
RE: Map Making Steps - 5/30/2013 3:35:25 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I just need to end up with something close to the actual road net that the AI can use easily.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 64
RE: Map Making Steps - 5/30/2013 1:12:56 PM   
Dagfinn

 

Posts: 110
Joined: 1/20/2003
From: Western Norway
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

@Koesj - Yes, As long as you have a map with the proper scaled size and hex locations (where the hexes line up), you can bring that image into the game's Map Values Editor and add the necessary sets of map values needed by the game. Once you have the correct hex grid overlay set to the proper size and scale you can go crazy making map images. More details will of the process will be in the game documents and we can talk a bit more about it on the forums.


Im a bit confused

What you say makes sense, but I dont understand what MD does then. I looks to me like he uses HexDraw to much more than create a image file?

And I dont understand what you mean with "hex location?" Must you use HexDrwa or another "paint" program to ad a hexgrid???

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Post #: 65
RE: Map Making Steps - 5/30/2013 1:17:03 PM   
Dagfinn

 

Posts: 110
Joined: 1/20/2003
From: Western Norway
Status: offline 		I realize that Red Storm is suppose to depict Germany, but:
Is it possible to make maps with more restricted terrain?

Norwegian for instance, with narrow valleys with impassable valleysides? And how many height levels can you have? Is there a given hight to each hight level?

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Post #: 66
RE: Map Making Steps - 5/30/2013 2:08:02 PM   
cbelva


Posts: 1843
Joined: 3/26/2005
Status: offline 		You don't have to add a "hexgrid". The game uses hexes and many people like to see the hexes. You can take just about any map, size it to fit the scale of the game and use it. Hexegrids are useful when you are making a map to ensure that you are getting the terrain placed correctly and that terrain that is laid along the hexline is placed properly.

To standardize the official maps to be released with the game, a set of graphic textures were created to be use to build the maps. They use the program Hexdraw to place the graphics on the map. Once that is done, you load the map made in hexdraw into the game's map editor to place the values that the game uses to read the maps. (I hope this is plain). The graphics used to create the game will be released with the game so others can build the same type of maps if they so desire.

However, you can create your own graphics and make your own maps. I will not be surprise if some enterprising moddler creates a set of graphics that is far better than is in the game now. There are some really talented people out there.

Note--you don not need Hexdraw to create a map for the game. It is a third party program that was selected by the team to create the maps based on our graphics. You can scan a map, size it in a paint program to match the requirements of the game and use it.

BTW, the first map I played on when I became a beta tester was a screen shot taken from Google Earth that had been correctly sized for the game's scale. It worked but it was hard to read the terrain (esp the elevation).

< Message edited by cbelva -- 5/30/2013 3:01:18 PM >

(in reply to Dagfinn)
Post #: 67
RE: Map Making Steps - 5/30/2013 5:15:58 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Dagfinn,
Hex location. I mean the actual physical location of the hexes on the map with respect to the image. Having the upper left corner hex in the correct spot is critical if you want the game to match up.

Elevations have been abstracted to some degree and right now we have 5 elevations. I will look up the height we are using per elevation and let you know. As for more restricted terrain like cliffs or steep grades, we currently do not have that modeled. It is something we need to add and it will be a topic of discussion this weekend. I would like to add it in to cover the type of areas you are talking about.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to cbelva)
Post #: 68
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/1/2013 4:12:58 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		At this point I have the elevations, streams and roads on the map.

Here is what it looks like at this stage of development.

Good Hunting.

MR






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< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 6/1/2013 4:13:17 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 69
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/1/2013 5:07:27 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Here are the towns and cities with black names.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 70
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/1/2013 5:08:06 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Here are the towns and cities with white names. I use white names because, for me they stand out better. Be sure to have your text setting selected for Top-Text.





Initially, I put all the names on the map in black because in HexDraw if you work in white you can't see the letters in the text box. So, I create them in black then change them after I'm done.

Good Hunting.

MR

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 71
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/1/2013 5:12:53 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Here is where to select the Top-Text option.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 72
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/1/2013 5:21:40 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Next to the last step is forest. Depending on the amount of road net and how extensive the forest is could mean you spend quite a bit of time adding forest. At least it does for me because I sculpt my forest around roads, water obstacles and elevations.

Here is the Google Earth shot of the area with the dark green showing up as forest.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 73
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/1/2013 5:24:02 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Here is my template view that I will be working off of in HexDraw.

I also have GE open to check the locations to get them as close as I can. The darker green areas are the forest. I can change the level of transparency to make sure that I get the forest in the right locations. This view is the closest to showing both the template and the actual map for displaying here in this tutorial.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 74
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/1/2013 5:38:23 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		My method for adding forest is to use an outline and then paint by number.

I go to the most transparency that I can find that shows me the most forest information and add a woods graphic over the area I want to fill in with forest.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 75
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/1/2013 5:39:29 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Then I go to the view of least transparency to see what map features need to be sculpted with the forest.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 76
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/1/2013 7:19:16 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Then I create the outline of the major portion of the woods plus the fringe parts I'll add to the main area.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 77
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/1/2013 7:32:18 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		This is what the sculpted result looks like.




I use that exact same method for every area on the map until I have all the forested areas added.

Good Hunting.

MR

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 78
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/2/2013 7:29:20 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Here is what some of the woods sculpting looks like for one area of the map.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 79
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/2/2013 2:25:37 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Great info from Mad Russian!!

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 80
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/2/2013 4:07:55 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The map now has it's elevations, water obstacles, road net, cities/towns and all the forest coverage.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 81
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/2/2013 7:59:09 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The last step to having my map created is to put the fields on it.

There are five different field graphics. I don't put the same graphic in two adjacent hexes.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 82
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/2/2013 8:21:26 PM   
jack54


Posts: 1402
Joined: 7/18/2007
From: East Tennessee
Status: offline 		Thanks for taking the time to describe the process. (I think elevation will probably be the most difficult part for me.)

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Post #: 83
RE: Map Making Steps - 6/2/2013 8:25:03 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I only put field graphics in levels 1 and 2. I only put them in hexes with no other terrain in the hex body. I will put them bordering water obstacles or town/city graphics.

I use predominantly 1 and 3 graphics because I like those the best.

Here is the map completed and ready to have it's obstruction factors added. Rob has a program that assigns those automatically.

Good Hunting.

MR




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 84
RE: Map Making Steps - 10/24/2013 2:04:31 AM   
Gratch1111

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline 		If I understand you make the map in hexdraw with the tools there?

Sorry for being an idiot, but how do you make the game know which tile is what?

Are the different tiles in hexdraw? woods, fields, rivers etc

How long does it take to make a map?

Is it possible to make a map tile by tile without a program with just what I find in the Flashpoint folder?

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 85
RE: Map Making Steps - 10/24/2013 3:09:46 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		We will be releasing art and templates with the modding guide soon.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Gratch1111)
Post #: 86
RE: Map Making Steps - 10/24/2013 3:12:23 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gratch11

If I understand you make the map in hexdraw with the tools there?


There are multiple ways to create a map for the game using the Hexdraw program was an expedient for us, because Cap'n Darwin and I both already had it.

quote:


Sorry for being an idiot, but how do you make the game know which tile is what?

Are the different tiles in hexdraw? woods, fields, rivers etc


Hexdraw doesn't use tiles. It uses graphics in different shapes that you create the terrain on the map with.

quote:


How long does it take to make a map?


Been almost a year now since I made a map. If I remember right, the way I make one it takes about 40 hours from beginning to end. That may be a bit high but it's around that number.

quote:


Is it possible to make a map tile by tile without a program with just what I find in the Flashpoint folder?


Check the modding guide when it comes out. That will show you what you can do to create maps. There are multiple ways to create a map and even a free graphics program like Paint can do it if I understand the process correctly.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Gratch1111)
Post #: 87
RE: Map Making Steps - 11/11/2013 5:41:46 PM   
JohnO


Posts: 268
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		Hi Mad Russian,

I know that there will be a Modding Guide coming out, what you have posted will it be in the guide as well? If not do you think that putting the information that you did be place in a PDF file for people like me to use without having to go to each thread to see how you did the maps?

JohnO

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Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

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Post #: 88
RE: Map Making Steps - 11/11/2013 6:13:35 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		I will be using MR's campaign and scenario information almost verbatim and a good chunk of the map making is his or based on his stuff from the Modding Guide. Being in house documents we will be able to update them when new information is available.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to JohnO)
Post #: 89
RE: Map Making Steps - 11/11/2013 6:21:10 PM   
JohnO


Posts: 268
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		Thats good to hear, now you know I'm going to bug you, When will we see it?

_____________________________

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 90
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