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RE: Map Making Steps - 11/12/2013 1:57:39 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		All that time in S. Korea can be put to good use creating maps for FPC...

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to JohnO)
Post #: 91
RE: Map Making Steps - 11/12/2013 1:28:56 PM   
JohnO


Posts: 268
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

All that time in S. Korea can be put to good use creating maps for FPC...

Good Hunting.

MR

I could, but we will start 12 hour shifts for a 24 hour exercise. Due to it being a classified exercise, no personnel laptops, no cell phones, no cameras, no books but I have cloud reader on my government laptop to read books

_____________________________

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

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Post #: 92
RE: Map Making Steps - 11/12/2013 2:25:17 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Whatever works. Could give you some ideas in the mean time.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to JohnO)
Post #: 93
RE: Map Making Steps - 11/21/2013 1:17:45 AM   
JohnO


Posts: 268
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Status: offline 		What is the max size can the map be for FC:RS? I noticed at the start of this tutorial you meant 20km by 20km.

_____________________________

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 94
RE: Map Making Steps - 11/21/2013 1:23:17 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		They can be different sizes. The normal blank I use in HexDraw is 48 columns by 31 hex rows; not square.

I'll have to check about the absolute size that can be used in the game. What happens is that the bigger the map the slower FPC runs.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to JohnO)
Post #: 95
RE: Map Making Steps - 11/22/2013 1:40:06 AM   
Werewolf13

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline 		Was just wondering:

Can maps have a vertical orientation? i.e. 20Km N/S and 15 E/W instead of the normal horizontal E/W major axis?



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Michael Andress

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 96
RE: Map Making Steps - 11/22/2013 1:58:56 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326

Was just wondering:

Can maps have a vertical orientation? i.e. 20Km N/S and 15 E/W instead of the normal horizontal E/W major axis?



Yes. We standardized on 20x15, but you can make on of any size and orientation with in reason. Much bigger than the 20x15 the game will be slowing down some and also if you flood the map with units things will slow down.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
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Post #: 97
RE: Map Making Steps - 11/22/2013 2:50:43 PM   
Werewolf13

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326

Was just wondering:

Can maps have a vertical orientation? i.e. 20Km N/S and 15 E/W instead of the normal horizontal E/W major axis?



Yes. We standardized on 20x15, but you can make on of any size and orientation with in reason. Much bigger than the 20x15 the game will be slowing down some and also if you flood the map with units things will slow down.


Thanks...

_____________________________

Freedom is not free! Nor should it be. For men being men will neither fight for nor value that which is free.

Michael Andress

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 98
RE: Map Making Steps - 8/23/2015 9:01:13 PM   
tebeinteresno


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/28/2015
From: Russia
Status: offline 		Maybe I'd missed something, but could someone tell me where you gets a good 80s maps of Europe, especially Germany?

(in reply to Werewolf13)
Post #: 99
RE: Map Making Steps - 8/24/2015 6:40:14 AM   
harry_vdk

 

Posts: 338
Joined: 6/10/2014
From: Drachten
Status: offline 		The old sovied maps are interesing about this.
http://www.compasscaddy.com/soviet-military-maps-a-treasure-trove-for-wilderness-backpackers/

SAS.Planet is very nice as a resource of different current mapssource.
http://www.sasgis.org

Current german maps are found Digitale Topographische Karten (DTK)
http://www.geodatenzentrum.de/geodaten/gdz_rahmen.gdz_div?gdz_spr=deu&gdz_akt_zeile=5&gdz_anz_zeile=0&gdz_user_id=0


And mapstore, but they are not free of charge.
mapstor.com


(in reply to tebeinteresno)
Post #: 100
RE: Map Making Steps - 8/24/2015 8:08:21 AM   
tebeinteresno


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/28/2015
From: Russia
Status: offline 		But how about topographic maps?
What is best used to create maps of heights?

(in reply to harry_vdk)
Post #: 101
RE: Map Making Steps - 8/24/2015 12:21:33 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Current maps are close enough elevation wise to get you started. Google Earth map view has a topo function in it. The elevations haven't changed since then of if they have it will be a slight change.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to tebeinteresno)
Post #: 102
RE: Map Making Steps - 8/25/2015 10:19:56 PM   
WildCatNL


Posts: 513
Joined: 3/27/2009
From: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tebeinteresno

But how about topographic maps?
What is best used to create maps of heights?


If accurate elevation data is essential, download digital elevation data (DEM) for the selected location (free from http://srtm.csi.cgiar.org , for example). 90m DEM data suffices for 500m hexes.
Then use a third-party tool (such as the free QGis) and define a palette that maps (up to) 10 elevation ranges to the FCRS elevation colors. Create a bitmap, load that bitmap into the FCRS map values editor, and scan the elevation map values. It's easier said than done, though, but it is what I'm doing for the Southern Storm maps. See the illustration below.

In the FCRS 2.09 update, Rob improved the map values editor so it picks a hex's elevation based on the average elevation color rather than the minimum color in that hex. It makes the map resemble real terrain a lot more!

William





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

William
On Target Simulations LLC

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Post #: 103
RE: Map Making Steps - 8/27/2015 12:40:28 AM   
tebeinteresno


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/28/2015
From: Russia
Status: offline 		Whoa!
Thanks! Very helpful and powerful method!

so now a have a couple questions:
how do you crop map for game? Just use coordinates or another method?
Do you normalize your map width? because I see that map much wider than in maps.

(in reply to WildCatNL)
Post #: 104
RE: Map Making Steps - 8/27/2015 5:21:45 AM   
Stimpak


Posts: 632
Joined: 8/23/2015
From: BC, Canada
Status: offline 		I tried QGIS, but found it too complicated. Just sticking to making mini-maps with hexdraw for now :P

(in reply to tebeinteresno)
Post #: 105
RE: Map Making Steps - 8/27/2015 9:14:17 AM   
tebeinteresno


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/28/2015
From: Russia
Status: offline 		Or maybe somewhere similar data of rivers or roads? )

(in reply to WildCatNL)
Post #: 106
RE: Map Making Steps - 9/14/2015 4:44:33 PM   
tebeinteresno


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/28/2015
From: Russia
Status: offline 		Do we have any standarts of Elevation steps in future maps?
50m? 100m? 200m?

(in reply to tebeinteresno)
Post #: 107
RE: Map Making Steps - 9/14/2015 4:54:38 PM   
harry_vdk

 

Posts: 338
Joined: 6/10/2014
From: Drachten
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tebeinteresno

Do we have any standarts of Elevation steps in future maps?
50m? 100m? 200m?


Hi,

There was a discussion about this point "Giving a hight to the elevation levels".


(in reply to tebeinteresno)
Post #: 108
RE: Map Making Steps - 9/14/2015 6:10:12 PM   
Ratzki

 

Posts: 581
Joined: 8/18/2008
From: Chilliwack, British Columbia
Status: offline 		From an outsider, has anyone looked at the mapmaker in PCO? It will crank out grey scale elevation bmp's pretty easy and they can b stitched together without much work. Just a thought.

(in reply to harry_vdk)
Post #: 109
RE: Map Making Steps - 9/15/2015 12:14:54 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ratzki

From an outsider, has anyone looked at the mapmaker in PCO? It will crank out grey scale elevation bmp's pretty easy and they can b stitched together without much work. Just a thought.


Yes, we checked it. Couldn't get it to do what we needed here.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Ratzki)
Post #: 110
RE: Map Making Steps - 9/15/2015 12:47:42 PM   
battlerbritain

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 11/2/2013
Status: offline 		I've managed to find a free GIS called QGIS that seems fairly capable: http://www.qgis.org/en/site/about/index.html

I also managed to get some terrain data for Germany, at least the 2D part: http://download.geofabrik.de/europe/germany/hessen.html

I've even managed to get it to display the area I'm interested in for a scenario west of Bad Hersfeld.

Got the elevation data from: http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/SRTM3/Eurasia/

The hgt files for around N50E09 to N50E11 seem to cover the Bad Hersfeld area.

I can even get it to display a different colour for each contour at 50m intervals, or whatever contour interval I like.

Hex grids are easy!

There's a plugin called MMQGIS for QGIS that allows creating of hexgrids. The tricky bit is specifying the horizontal or vertical spacing in metres in terms of lat/long. A bit of googling and converting got me using a horizontal spacing of 0.00194509 for this area of Germany to get 250m hexes, or 0.00389018 for 500m hexes.

I'll attach a png file of this area I'm working on and you can see what it looks like.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by battlerbritain -- 9/15/2015 1:49:48 PM >

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 111
RE: Map Making Steps - 9/15/2015 7:55:23 PM   
WildCatNL


Posts: 513
Joined: 3/27/2009
From: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Hi battlerbritain,

thanks for sharing this. That's a 250m hex map, isn't?

I'm also using QGis. See my Aug 25 post above for an example of the color coding I use - it's important to use discrete (non-interpolated) color mapping.

I specify the MMQGIS hex spacing H spacing / V spacing directly in meters.
I use the print composer to generate the bitmaps, with a paper sheet of 20.1" x 15.25" inch for a 46x30 hex map, export resolution 128dpi (128 pixels per inch). On the sheet, I use the scale of 1:39370 in order to arrive at 500m per 64 pixel hex, so 1km = 128 pixels = 1 inch (1km / 1inch = 1000m / 0.0254m = 39370). 250m hex need a scale of 1:19685.

If you need help filtering OSM data to extract streets, forests, etc., let me know. Be aware that the OSM data is fairly incomplete*, especially wrt to forests and streams.

William
*: at least the OSM data I'm using is fairly incomplete. I get mine from geofabrik.de

_____________________________

William
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to battlerbritain)
Post #: 112
RE: Map Making Steps - 9/16/2015 7:38:52 AM   
battlerbritain

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 11/2/2013
Status: offline 		Hi William,

Cheers for that

Yep, the hexes are 250m. I'm having a go at preparing a couple of maps for 'Assault'. I'm also posting updates over at Comsimworld.

I'm quite pleased with progress so far. I've got to this stage in about a day from being a complete noob with QGIS. Most of that time has been spent hunting for data.

I had set the elevation to use a new colour map of Brown to BlueGreen (see attached screenshot).

Next items for tweeking though are:

a) get the roads to display as autobahns / main roads / minor roads etc. There are graphics for these already in the QGIS styles for the roads - just gotta figure out how to apply them. May need to edit the shapefile data for particular roads? Not sure how to do that yet.

b) grade the rivers as well.

c) add a 'tree' like graphic for the tress. There is a separate 'natural' layer shapefile in the Hessen data which shows tree coverage (not shown in the kirchheim picture I posted). It defaults to a plain green fill which I'd like to texturise. You can also set a %age of transparency for a layer which works well (the hexgrid I set to 80% transparency).

Hope this helps,

B

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by battlerbritain -- 9/16/2015 8:46:31 AM >

(in reply to WildCatNL)
Post #: 113
RE: Map Making Steps - 9/16/2015 1:02:46 PM   
battlerbritain

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 11/2/2013
Status: offline 		Got roads to show their type as well from the roads.shp file in the Hesse data.

Select the roads Properties, select Styling and change it from Single Symbol to 'Categorized'. Select column and select 'type' as the column. Click the Classify button - wait about 5 secs and smile.

That expands the roads out into the different categories. You can then double-click on each category and change it's colour or line type. There's even a set of pre-defined lines for motorways, roads etc. Double click on the line in the properties dialogue to set it to a pre-defined type.

Same thing for the waterways.

Hope this helps,

B

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by battlerbritain -- 9/16/2015 2:03:55 PM >

(in reply to battlerbritain)
Post #: 114
RE: Map Making Steps - 9/18/2015 2:49:30 AM   
Stimpak


Posts: 632
Joined: 8/23/2015
From: BC, Canada
Status: offline 		I wouldn't mind some form of tutorial with MQGIS. I find it rather complicated to even get started with.

(in reply to battlerbritain)
Post #: 115
RE: Map Making Steps - 9/28/2015 8:17:00 PM   
harry_vdk

 

Posts: 338
Joined: 6/10/2014
From: Drachten
Status: offline 		Some nice QGIS Tutorials and Tips v1.0:
http://www.qgistutorials.com/en/docs/working_with_terrain.html


(in reply to Stimpak)
Post #: 116
RE: Map Making Steps - 8/19/2016 1:15:40 AM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1131
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
Status: offline 		Hello

I wanna challenge to the map making world. What could be the easiest way to create a hex map for a noob? HexDraw? Or QGIS? I found Hexdraw is not a cheap option, though.... :(

< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 8/19/2016 1:23:12 AM >

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Post #: 117
RE: Map Making Steps - 8/19/2016 6:28:27 AM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I checked out:
http://www.hexographer.com/free-version/

You can produce color coded hexes using a Google map overlay and Hexographer but they look more like the paper war game maps some of us older guys grew up with. They will not look like the maps the are produced for the sim using hexdraw. They work fine. But I personally would not build a scenario for the community using the software. But again, it's worth a look. If Hexdraw could be bundled into a "Professional" edition of Flashpoint at the right price it might be a nice feature for those on the fence to go for.

Kevin

(in reply to exsonic01)
Post #: 118
RE: Map Making Steps - 8/19/2016 6:49:16 AM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1131
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
Status: offline 		Thanks Kevin, you're right. Hexographer looks like a reasonable choice for the Forgotten Realm TRPGs with magic and sword, but not a good choice for the modern battle with "iron horses" and "thunder-rods". I think I may need to read more about QGIS.

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 119
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