How to prevent pirate raids

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

How to prevent pirate raids

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds 1 Series >> How to prevent pirate raids

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

How to prevent pirate raids - 7/8/2013 5:25:39 PM

Yarasala

Posts: 185
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline

I'm playing a standard empire in the Age of Shadows and have the problem that new colonies constantly get raided by pirates. Ground troops don't seem to help much, even defence units, I cannot build spaceports or defence stations because of lack of resources and defending fleets are half of the time away retrofitting or refueling. In my second game I restricted myself to colonize only two planets in the hope that necessary resources to build star bases reach them faster, but that doesn't seem to work, so I need another means to prevent pirate raids, if there is one.

Any tips for that?

Thanks in advance

Post #: 1

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/8/2013 7:51:07 PM

Canute0

Posts: 616
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: Germany
Status: offline

Pay the attacking Pirate Clan for Protection.
After the Ships left the planet, cancel the Protection.

Keep colonize other planet, but you need to build more mining stations at resources you need to build/retrofit your ships/bases. To build these bases you need more Constrution ships. The most of them you can let them stay on automation, but 1-2 you should hotkey for your own duties like build some Gas mining station for fuel close to your colonies or repair duties.
It is important that you start the Build order at a base/planet who got the nessesary resources to build the station.

(in reply to Yarasala)

Post #: 2

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/8/2013 8:02:35 PM

Starke

Posts: 147
Joined: 6/7/2013
Status: offline

If by ground "defense units" you mean Planetary Defense Units, then it sounds like you're well out of the Age of Shadows tech-wise but the pirates are still a dominant force. I'm actually in a similar-ish position in my Age of Shadows game so I don't have all the answers but I'll try to help.

Firstly, I'm not sure what you colony scarcity to in your game, I like normal, and scattered for independent colonies. On those settings independents are like gold dust, getting one or two is a huge help - they have the population to start construction of a space port right off the bat, and probably the resource stockpile too. In general, remember you can use pirate smuggling missions to funnel resources to new colonies. This costs you a few thousand but gets you much more materials much faster than if you relied on just your own freighters. Additionally, what makes the independent so great is because once you have that spaceport up, all retrofitting and repairing can happen right there.

Ground troops can stop the majority of raids that land (and the ones it won't stop it will massively reduce what they steal), but you'll need to invest a good bit in troops - if you're getting regularly attacked, I recommend 6-8 troops (that's about that it takes in my game, anyway). I don't have Planetary Defense Units quite yet, unfortunately... (research faster, darn you!)

A tip for defensive ships - I like my defensive ship designs to have a good balance of weapons and armor, but a little heavy on the engines and thrusters plus a little more armor than my attacking ships. I use blasters, so the idea is to close quickly and shred incoming pirate ships before they can drop troops/cause general mischief. This also helps when defending mining stations in the same system. If you have 3-4 armor on your designs, it means you won't have to return to repair every time you get hit with railguns or a couple shots get through the shield. And remember that even when attacked by gravitic weapons there's no guarantee that it'll hit something important; it's possible to keep a ship with a dozen damaged components on defense duty if most of the shots fell on hab modules, armor, maybe a couple engines, etc.

Lastly, don't be afraid to pay off some of the pirates if they're just too big for you to fight. Ideally, you pay them off BEFORE you start shooting at them/them at you, because that drives the cost way up. I've even had a pirate faction I was allied with take an "interest" in one of my colonies; I don't think their plans had my best interests at heart, but they hung around the colony and I basically got a multi-year pirate defense mission for free.

Oh, and I guess a common tip is "kill all the nearby bases." It helps, but some pirates are still willing to make a trek from across the map to attack my stuff, so don't expect it to work miracles. =P And it sounds like you need most of your fleet for defense.

(in reply to Yarasala)

Post #: 3

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/8/2013 9:47:03 PM

MisadventuresVG

Posts: 14
Joined: 7/3/2013
Status: offline

You think that is annoying, try playing on extra expensive research with your homeworld under attack in the first 3 months. No stock item will build that fast and if you say no to the pirates you are then blockaded on your homeworld.

I got round it though, but it certainly isn't easy...

The only way to ward off pirates before they can do any damage is to hit them hard in the face from the outset. Build cheap and cheerful weapon platforms and lots of them until you can properly defend your homeworld with defence bases, a space port and fleets.

(in reply to Starke)

Post #: 4

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/9/2013 8:14:47 AM

Yarasala

Posts: 185
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canute

Pay the attacking Pirate Clan for Protection.
After the Ships left the planet, cancel the Protection.

Ok, thanks, although that shouldn't work more than once per pirate fraction, otherwise I would regard that as bug or at least AI weakness

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canute
Keep colonize other planet, but you need to build more mining stations at resources you need to build/retrofit your ships/bases. To build these bases you need more Constrution ships. The most of them you can let them stay on automation, but 1-2 you should hotkey for your own duties like build some Gas mining station for fuel close to your colonies or repair duties.
It is important that you start the Build order at a base/planet who got the nessesary resources to build the station.

I have a lot of mining stations, although the galaxy this time seems to be short of carbon fibre and chromium. But apart from that even the available strategic resources don't reach my colonies.

(in reply to Canute0)

Post #: 5

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/9/2013 8:34:22 AM

Yarasala

Posts: 185
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starke
If by ground "defense units" you mean Planetary Defense Units, then it sounds like you're well out of the Age of Shadows tech-wise but the pirates are still a dominant force. I'm actually in a similar-ish position in my Age of Shadows game so I don't have all the answers but I'll try to help.

That's correct. It looks like Planetary Defense Units help killing enemy forces faster so that more raids fail, but still enough are successful so that I feel like research outpost for the pirates (because they often steal research when there are not much resources left).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starke
Firstly, I'm not sure what you colony scarcity to in your game, I like normal, and scattered for independent colonies. On those settings independents are like gold dust, getting one or two is a huge help - they have the population to start construction of a space port right off the bat, and probably the resource stockpile too. In general, remember you can use pirate smuggling missions to funnel resources to new colonies. This costs you a few thousand but gets you much more materials much faster than if you relied on just your own freighters. Additionally, what makes the independent so great is because once you have that spaceport up, all retrofitting and repairing can happen right there.

Colony scarcity: normal, independent colonies: normal. In my current game I rushed to colonize the first independent colony I found, but even there were not enough resources to build a star port, and the raiding began nearly at once. It's also quite far away from my home planet so that my ships have to struggle to reach it because of range limitations.
I regularly give smuggling contracts to the pirates, but that doesn't seem to bring the needed resources in, I have the feeling that provided me mainly with caslon although I offered money for all resources.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starke
Ground troops can stop the majority of raids that land (and the ones it won't stop it will massively reduce what they steal), but you'll need to invest a good bit in troops - if you're getting regularly attacked, I recommend 6-8 troops (that's about that it takes in my game, anyway). I don't have Planetary Defense Units quite yet, unfortunately... (research faster, darn you!)

I have about 8 troops at my two colonies, I would like more but fear the maintenance costs. They prevent some raids, but as far as I can see not "the majority". It seems the pirates often attack in waves, usually the first wave is thrown back, but although all troops are still intact the second or third wave will raid successfully.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starke
A tip for defensive ships - I like my defensive ship designs to have a good balance of weapons and armor, but a little heavy on the engines and thrusters plus a little more armor than my attacking ships. I use blasters, so the idea is to close quickly and shred incoming pirate ships before they can drop troops/cause general mischief. This also helps when defending mining stations in the same system. If you have 3-4 armor on your designs, it means you won't have to return to repair every time you get hit with railguns or a couple shots get through the shield. And remember that even when attacked by gravitic weapons there's no guarantee that it'll hit something important; it's possible to keep a ship with a dozen damaged components on defense duty if most of the shots fell on hab modules, armor, maybe a couple engines, etc.

Ok, I didn't do much designwise yet, mainly because it's a lot of micromanagement to have more than one design per subrole. But thanks for the tips, I will try to incorporate them in my defense strategy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starke
Lastly, don't be afraid to pay off some of the pirates if they're just too big for you to fight. Ideally, you pay them off BEFORE you start shooting at them/them at you, because that drives the cost way up. I've even had a pirate faction I was allied with take an "interest" in one of my colonies; I don't think their plans had my best interests at heart, but they hung around the colony and I basically got a multi-year pirate defense mission for free.

I do that, I even give attack contracts to them regularly since up to now all have failed and I didn't have to pay for a single one of them, but I hope that the pirates lost some ships in the fighting (that hopefully took place, I haven't been able to determine whether the pirates that took the contract fought and lost or simply did never appear at the base in question).
Defense contracts I gave two or three of times, but that didn't bring many defenders to my planets and overall didn't help me, but so again I didn't have to pay them.
The trick with paying the pirates for "protection" when they are about to attack I have to test, but as I said in my other answer that would be somewaht fishy if it works more than once per pirate fraction. And to pay more than one pirate party continually for protection is just too expensive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starke
Oh, and I guess a common tip is "kill all the nearby bases." It helps, but some pirates are still willing to make a trek from across the map to attack my stuff, so don't expect it to work miracles. =P And it sounds like you need most of your fleet for defense.

To kill the bases I need big fleets since my ships are still quite weak compared to the pirates (some of them have already destroyers with about 170 attack

). And for that I have not enough money yet.

(in reply to Starke)

Post #: 6

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/9/2013 1:17:24 PM

Canute0

Posts: 616
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

To kill the bases I need big fleets since my ships are still quite weak compared to the pirates (some of them have already destroyers with about 170 attack ). And for that I have not enough money yet.

I bet these 170 attack destroyer the just found. The Galaxy is full of abandon ships.

My suggestion, Pay the pirates for protection, ok they still raid sometimes your smaller colonies. But that don't hurt much.
Grow up,Research more, don't forget pirates can't research that fast then normal empires, they raid,steal or capture tech.
Let your Inteligence agent pratice sabotage on the pirates.
Explore the Galaxy, maybe you can find some abandon ships too, or when you got the Original Storyline, you find some debris field and repair some Capital ships from there.

When you want to destroy enemy bases, you should concentrate into Torpedo,Missiels or Fighter Tech.

(in reply to Yarasala)

Post #: 7

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/9/2013 1:28:00 PM

turtlefang

Posts: 334
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline

Pirates are hard to deal with, especially early on in the game.

I would recommend choosing two weapon paths to research ASAP - one short range and one long range. You need to pick the one's that support your strategy. Research the long range on first. Then get armor and logistics.

Your mining stations will end up pirate targets unless heavily armed. I put 10 armor, 10 maxos, and 10 missiles on each of mine (these are the two weapons I prefer although others work just as well). This means that the mining stations can defend themselves, you won't lose one most of the time, and it can protect any freighters nearby.

Arm your constructors - make sure they can defend themselves from single or double escort raids. And change the ship settings from evade at the sight of the enemy to flee at 50% of the shields otherwise they run at once. If you don't, constructors will take forever to build anything - pirates show up and then the constructors flee. They come back, flee again.

And you need to build a lot of these guys. I usually end up with about 30+ to get as many stations up as possible as quickly as possible. If you get this many operating, resources will start flowing.

When you colonize a planet, sent a small fleet (six to eight ships) and include a troop transport to land the garrison. On any colony that suffers a raid, I usually build a planetary defense unit. This fleet needs to stick around until you get a spaceport build - and it needs to have weapons and shields.

Just note that a small population planet, construction takes a looooong time even without resource shortages. And ever new planet will start with resource shortages until freighters start to arrive. And the freighters won't arrive unless your fleets keep the pirates away.

Last, if you capture a pirate ship, DON'T put it near someplace you want a freighter to go. Even "friendly" pirate ships scare freighters away. Use it as part of an attack fleet or retire it for the technology.

(in reply to Yarasala)

Post #: 8

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/9/2013 1:45:37 PM

elanaagain

Posts: 254
Joined: 6/6/2013
Status: offline

@ turtlefang About captured pirate ships (and pirate ships that you gain when a pirate faction 'joins' your faction): they also are still considered 'hostiles' by other empires. They will be attacked if near empire ships, and it will cause diplomatic 'friction' with you.

(in reply to turtlefang)

Post #: 9

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/9/2013 5:37:38 PM

Starke

Posts: 147
Joined: 6/7/2013
Status: offline

Dang Yarasala, that's quite the situation. 0.o

8 troops have always been enough to stop the majority of attacks for me, and the ones that succeed take only 5-500 of a few things.

On paying pirates, what are they requesting you pay? If you pay when you first encounter them (check them out in the diplomacy screen to see if they're worth paying off), you can get away paying only 200-ish per month, which I find very reasonable.

Manual ships designs are very important for at least your spaceport and primary military ships, you want to ensure they are getting %100 out of the tech and ship size available.

And I take the opposite design philosophy from turtlefang's. I only start with a few constructors (2-4), manually controlled, and only build in my systems with colonies. They and the mining stations are unarmed to keep maintenance and fuel use down, and I have a small early fleet of ships (3-6) to fight off small pirate attacks on them - big attacks you just retreat the constructor into warp (if there is one) and self-destruct the station, or just let them raid it.

BTW, later on them the game I only get 6-10 or so constructors... I have no idea how people are needed 30. 0___0

(in reply to elanaagain)

Post #: 10

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/9/2013 6:54:40 PM

turtlefang

Posts: 334
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline

Reality is that I don't "need" 30 or more constructors after the early game when I want/need a lot of mining stations generating resources. After you get XX number, the rest are really icing on the cake and generate resources to stockpile (which are useful if you ever need them due to long, drawn out war).

And it helps prevent bottlenecks of resources by having multiple sources all over the place.

But I keep them and use them to plant a gas mining station on every caslon and hydrogen planet near me to keep pirates away. Over the long term, it works wonders and establishes a core set of colonies that gets doesn't get raided very often if at all. Plus, refueling my fleets is a breeze and it is a boost to my economy as more fuel attracts more freighters to trade.

As far as keeping the maintaince cost down, I have tried it both ways. Truth is, the private sector ends up swimming in money and increasing the size of the mining stations by arming them just doesn't seem to impact the size of the private sector very much. And it makes my life easier if the mining stations can defend themselves from one to three small ship raids. Eventually, I will add long range sensors when I get them and a damage control unit. But that is my play style and I'm lazy. I want to set up as many "self sufficient" stations as possible to avoid having to micro manage and send repair ships out - and provide eyes and ears on inbound attacks.

Just as a note, this is the way I play and not a knock on your approach. Everyone has to settle into whatever approach that best fits thier style and approach - there is no right and wrong. I just don't want to worry about the smaller raids if can set it up to fend the off "automatically".

I try to get 50 colonies with supporting mining stations and spaceports up as quickly as possible from a prewarp start. Some games, I do very well. Other games, no so well. And the limiting factor seems pirate activitiy rather than other empires - although these come into play in mid to late mid game. So I look for ways to stop the pirate activity and set myself up to optimize against the pirates.

Armed contructors, armed mining stations, getting boots on the ground ASAP, and spaceports with weapons up as fast as possible seems to do it best. Then setting up a class of hunter/capture ships on partol, fleets with ground transport for colony ships, and one or two offensive fleets to take out pirate bases helps decrease the raids. And spys and lots and lots of exploration ships. Of course, the best laid plans often get kicked in the teeth......

(in reply to Starke)

Post #: 11

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/9/2013 8:14:56 PM

Yarasala

Posts: 185
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canute

quote:

To kill the bases I need big fleets since my ships are still quite weak compared to the pirates (some of them have already destroyers with about 170 attack ). And for that I have not enough money yet.

I bet these 170 attack destroyer the just found. The Galaxy is full of abandon ships.

My suggestion, Pay the pirates for protection, ok they still raid sometimes your smaller colonies. But that don't hurt much.
Grow up,Research more, don't forget pirates can't research that fast then normal empires, they raid,steal or capture tech.
Let your Inteligence agent pratice sabotage on the pirates.
Explore the Galaxy, maybe you can find some abandon ships too, or when you got the Original Storyline, you find some debris field and repair some Capital ships from there.

When you want to destroy enemy bases, you should concentrate into Torpedo,Missiels or Fighter Tech.

Part of those things I do already . About abandoned ships: I turned off the original storyline because I don't like being spammed with ship graveyards. Now I have only found some abandoned ships, but in the early game they have no hyperdrives ...

(in reply to Canute0)

Post #: 12

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/9/2013 8:22:13 PM

Yarasala

Posts: 185
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: turtlefang
Pirates are hard to deal with, especially early on in the game.

I would recommend choosing two weapon paths to research ASAP - one short range and one long range. You need to pick the one's that support your strategy. Research the long range on first. Then get armor and logistics.

Your mining stations will end up pirate targets unless heavily armed. I put 10 armor, 10 maxos, and 10 missiles on each of mine (these are the two weapons I prefer although others work just as well). This means that the mining stations can defend themselves, you won't lose one most of the time, and it can protect any freighters nearby.

I began to fortify my mining stations now despite the costs since some of the pirates do now send a cruiser with 240 attack or whole fleets just to shoot down my mining stations. We'll see how it works out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: turtlefang
Arm your constructors - make sure they can defend themselves from single or double escort raids. And change the ship settings from evade at the sight of the enemy to flee at 50% of the shields otherwise they run at once. If you don't, constructors will take forever to build anything - pirates show up and then the constructors flee. They come back, flee again.

And you need to build a lot of these guys. I usually end up with about 30+ to get as many stations up as possible as quickly as possible. If you get this many operating, resources will start flowing.

Ok, I also armed my constructors now, but not so much since they always need 35% of construction components and that limits the number of weapons you can put on those. No result yet, just began with it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: turtlefang
When you colonize a planet, sent a small fleet (six to eight ships) and include a troop transport to land the garrison. On any colony that suffers a raid, I usually build a planetary defense unit. This fleet needs to stick around until you get a spaceport build - and it needs to have weapons and shields.

That I tried (apart from the troop transport, good idea though), but as I said, half of the time the fleet goes refueling or retrofitting (or is outright shot down by superior forces).

quote:

ORIGINAL: turtlefang
Just note that a small population planet, construction takes a looooong time even without resource shortages. And ever new planet will start with resource shortages until freighters start to arrive. And the freighters won't arrive unless your fleets keep the pirates away.

Ok, that was new for me. Good to know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: turtlefang
Last, if you capture a pirate ship, DON'T put it near someplace you want a freighter to go. Even "friendly" pirate ships scare freighters away. Use it as part of an attack fleet or retire it for the technology.

And that I didn't know either, that's something that should be fixed in my eyes.

(in reply to turtlefang)

Post #: 13

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/9/2013 8:25:34 PM

Yarasala

Posts: 185
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: elanaagain

@ turtlefang About captured pirate ships (and pirate ships that you gain when a pirate faction 'joins' your faction): they also are still considered 'hostiles' by other empires. They will be attacked if near empire ships, and it will cause diplomatic 'friction' with you.

So it's even worse ... this should really be fixed.

(in reply to elanaagain)

Post #: 14

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/9/2013 8:35:53 PM

Yarasala

Posts: 185
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starke
Dang Yarasala, that's quite the situation. 0.o

8 troops have always been enough to stop the majority of attacks for me, and the ones that succeed take only 5-500 of a few things.

As I said 8 troops don't seem to be enough. Although that may be influenced by race, I play Ackdarians atm, their troops are not so string as some others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starke
On paying pirates, what are they requesting you pay? If you pay when you first encounter them (check them out in the diplomacy screen to see if they're worth paying off), you can get away paying only 200-ish per month, which I find very reasonable.

The very first offer was some 850 per month

But then it went down to 100-250 per month usually. I tok one offer, but all others I could not afford to pay. At some point I cancelled the protection contract by accident and then things went down the drain because I had quite a couple of mining stations near some pirate bases of that fractions and they were quickly wiped out. I took that as challenge though and didn't renew the contract

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starke
Manual ships designs are very important for at least your spaceport and primary military ships, you want to ensure they are getting %100 out of the tech and ship size available.

In the meantime I switched generally to manual designs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starke
And I take the opposite design philosophy from turtlefang's. I only start with a few constructors (2-4), manually controlled, and only build in my systems with colonies. They and the mining stations are unarmed to keep maintenance and fuel use down, and I have a small early fleet of ships (3-6) to fight off small pirate attacks on them - big attacks you just retreat the constructor into warp (if there is one) and self-destruct the station, or just let them raid it.

I controlled nearly all of my about 6 constructors manually but I let them also build in systems farther away. That makes defending my mining stations quite hard atm. I consider building only armed bases near my colonies and otherwise try to manually supply myself through state controlled "mining escorts".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starke
BTW, later on them the game I only get 6-10 or so constructors... I have no idea how people are needed 30. 0___0

I also never had so many constructors, and before Shadows I had never resource problems. But I find it better as it is now, gives now sense to the abundance of different resources.

(in reply to Starke)

Post #: 15

RE: How to prevent pirate raids - 7/9/2013 8:43:38 PM

Yarasala

Posts: 185
Joined: 5/10/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: turtlefang
...
I try to get 50 colonies with supporting mining stations and spaceports up as quickly as possible from a prewarp start. Some games, I do very well. Other games, no so well. And the limiting factor seems pirate activitiy rather than other empires - although these come into play in mid to late mid game. So I look for ways to stop the pirate activity and set myself up to optimize against the pirates.

In my first shadow game I colonized all I could as fast as I could and got about 15 colonies very quickly, but I didn't manage to get more than four or five spaceports up, all other colonies were also constantly raided. As I stated elsewhere I pretty much ruined that game by manually designing new mining stations and ordering all stations to retrofit at the same time. That crashed the distribution of resources quite thoroughly until I gave up on that game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: turtlefang
Armed contructors, armed mining stations, getting boots on the ground ASAP, and spaceports with weapons up as fast as possible seems to do it best. Then setting up a class of hunter/capture ships on partol, fleets with ground transport for colony ships, and one or two offensive fleets to take out pirate bases helps decrease the raids. And spys and lots and lots of exploration ships. Of course, the best laid plans often get kicked in the teeth......

That's what I want to accomplish too, but the pirates don't let me yet ...

(in reply to turtlefang)

Post #: 16