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RE: Fleet tactic - 7/30/2013 5:59:27 PM

lando005

Posts: 71
Joined: 6/8/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Also, I don't put a fleet at every system because if you try to defend everywhere you will lose everything. Besides you will bankrupt your little empire if you try to be everywhere in force.

I find myself agreeing with you here as fleet ranges are the latest thing I'm trying to tackle here. I've been using my hyperdrive level to help set the ranges my fleets are at but I'm not entierly sure about the "nearby systems" setting, I would want to use that for my defensive fleets but how far away would a system have to be from that fleet's home base to be considered out of range? And for fleets that have their range set for anywhere I assume the resupply ship should do its job and refuel the fleet as needed.

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 31

RE: Fleet tactic - 7/30/2013 6:16:14 PM

lando005

Posts: 71
Joined: 6/8/2013
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You know just going over all the comments on this thread you can see the various diffrent play styles we have all come up with, and that we all have our strenghts and weaknesses, if this game was multiplay I would have had fun playing with you all, and becomeing a better player for it.

(in reply to lando005)

Post #: 32

RE: Fleet tactic - 7/30/2013 6:38:16 PM

lando005

Posts: 71
Joined: 6/8/2013
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Another thing we haven't talked about are the combative ability of our stationary and non military units. I myself do not arm any of my civilian vessles or bases ( this is purely a role play driven choice on my part) At one point my exploration ships were armed but I decided against it for now. I was also thinking about putting a resource profiler on my military ships as well as cargo bays etc but again I've decided against that for right now. as far as star bases and defensive bases go I keep defensive bases at every colony but star bases are only buit at the system capital and are exclusively for military ship use. Although with my last game I did find myself setting up a starbase and a few other support stations in a remote unclaimed system to act as a forward command base this has proven very effective as my enemy at the time was across a nebula cloud that covered an entire sector at the time my long range abilities were limited so I needed a place to refuel.

(in reply to lando005)

Post #: 33

RE: Fleet tactic - 7/30/2013 6:57:26 PM

new_bee

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Joined: 1/16/2011
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There is one problem with fleet w/o hyperdrive. Common situation: they repulse attack, spent almost all fuel to fire lazors, then refuel at spaceport and forgot to park themselve on orbit. couple month later homeworld planet in opposite side of solar system and they cant warp there. So that fleet require much babysitting

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 34

RE: Fleet tactic - 7/30/2013 7:23:34 PM

lando005

Posts: 71
Joined: 6/8/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: new_bee

There is one problem with fleet w/o hyperdrive. Common situation: they repulse attack, spent almost all fuel to fire lazors, then refuel at spaceport and forgot to park themselve on orbit. couple month later homeworld planet in opposite side of solar system and they cant warp there. So that fleet require much babysitting

I also wonder if it is possible to engage such a fleet with a hyperspace equipped strike force just to draw that fleet away from their post then break off engagement and go after their now defenseless position

(in reply to new_bee)

Post #: 35

RE: Fleet tactic - 7/31/2013 1:49:22 AM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lando005

quote:

ORIGINAL: new_bee

There is one problem with fleet w/o hyperdrive. Common situation: they repulse attack, spent almost all fuel to fire lazors, then refuel at spaceport and forgot to park themselve on orbit. couple month later homeworld planet in opposite side of solar system and they cant warp there. So that fleet require much babysitting

I also wonder if it is possible to engage such a fleet with a hyperspace equipped strike force just to draw that fleet away from their post then break off engagement and go after their now defenseless position

If you set it's range to minimum (that is stay put at the planet) then it won't leave the planet. You might draw it off just a bit, but it should maintain station where it is supposed to be.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to lando005)

Post #: 36

RE: Fleet tactic - 7/31/2013 2:02:05 AM

lando005

Posts: 71
Joined: 6/8/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: lando005

quote:

ORIGINAL: new_bee

There is one problem with fleet w/o hyperdrive. Common situation: they repulse attack, spent almost all fuel to fire lazors, then refuel at spaceport and forgot to park themselve on orbit. couple month later homeworld planet in opposite side of solar system and they cant warp there. So that fleet require much babysitting

I also wonder if it is possible to engage such a fleet with a hyperspace equipped strike force just to draw that fleet away from their post then break off engagement and go after their now defenseless position

If you set it's range to minimum (that is stay put at the planet) then it won't leave the planet. You might draw it off just a bit, but it should maintain station where it is supposed to be.

They would have to be armed to the teeth, and highly manuverable to make it worth while. At that point they really wouldn't be ships, they would be mobile defense platforms.

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 37

RE: Fleet tactic - 7/31/2013 2:26:11 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

Armed exploration ships, mid and late game can be very effective strategically.

Early game they remain unarmed as I prefer to use the space for fuel to explore as widely as possible to get the goodies around the galaxy.

However, once I have ~ Size 500 with mid-tier shields, mid-tier weapons (e.g. Shockwave Torpedoes) and Long Range Scanners I'll start to arm them. At this stage the focus is normally clearing out the local area, they can be effective in taking out pirate mining bases and also space creatures e.g. for debris fields etc. This leaves the fleets to take out the pirate space ports.

Once I have ~ Size 650, Meridian Shields, Plasma Torpedoes and Long Range Scanners they become strong enough to take the smallest pirate space ports as well (still need to be careful). This can be particularly effective if you have then stationed around the map to keep Scanner Visibility of the galaxy.

Arming all bases can also be strategically effective. By mid-game I'll typically have 10 Shields / 10 Torpedoes. Combined with the focus above on taking out pirates most of the time bases can readily defend themselves against the majority of attacks. I'll keep a few defensive ships around in hot spots only.

I don't use defensive bases. One heavily armed starport is harder to defeat that a couple of smaller defensive bases (with equal overall firepower / shields) e.g. attackers can focus fire on a single defensive base etc.

I played around at one stage with armed civilians but always regretted it as they can lead to conflict at times that aren't ideal. Instead, they're fast, and so can escape almost any situation.

I have starports at every colony. Small starports are designed to be built quickly and are as small as possible with minimal arms. Medium starports are designed for general use over colonies. Large starports only for homeworlds. All starports have medical/recreation centres.

I'll progressively build gas mining stations around the map for refuelling and scanning purposes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lando005

Another thing we haven't talked about are the combative ability of our stationary and non military units. I myself do not arm any of my civilian vessles or bases ( this is purely a role play driven choice on my part) At one point my exploration ships were armed but I decided against it for now. I was also thinking about putting a resource profiler on my military ships as well as cargo bays etc but again I've decided against that for right now. as far as star bases and defensive bases go I keep defensive bases at every colony but star bases are only buit at the system capital and are exclusively for military ship use. Although with my last game I did find myself setting up a starbase and a few other support stations in a remote unclaimed system to act as a forward command base this has proven very effective as my enemy at the time was across a nebula cloud that covered an entire sector at the time my long range abilities were limited so I needed a place to refuel.

(in reply to lando005)

Post #: 38

RE: Fleet tactic - 7/31/2013 3:01:52 AM

lando005

Posts: 71
Joined: 6/8/2013
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Interesting, I may consider putting some defensive only weapons on my mining stations and civ ships, tractorbeams, ion cannon etc. I've been thinking long term enemy denial capabilities which is where my defensive bases come into play, eventually they will not only serve to protect my colonies and forward operational facilities but act as long term blocaides of enemy forces (especially once I equip them with hyper jaming tech). For example when I've beaten an enemy back to their home world I would build one or more of them in orbit of that planet to prevent them from rebuilding their forces. Or an even more ambitious idea is to build them along trade routes or cut off an entire system. How is putting the long range scanner on your explorers working out for you? I've tried doing that with my escorts but my over all speed suffers greatly to the point that it doesn't seem worth it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

Armed exploration ships, mid and late game can be very effective strategically.

Early game they remain unarmed as I prefer to use the space for fuel to explore as widely as possible to get the goodies around the galaxy.

However, once I have ~ Size 500 with mid-tier shields, mid-tier weapons (e.g. Shockwave Torpedoes) and Long Range Scanners I'll start to arm them. At this stage the focus is normally clearing out the local area, they can be effective in taking out pirate mining bases and also space creatures e.g. for debris fields etc. This leaves the fleets to take out the pirate space ports.

Once I have ~ Size 650, Meridian Shields, Plasma Torpedoes and Long Range Scanners they become strong enough to take the smallest pirate space ports as well (still need to be careful). This can be particularly effective if you have then stationed around the map to keep Scanner Visibility of the galaxy.

Arming all bases can also be strategically effective. By mid-game I'll typically have 10 Shields / 10 Torpedoes. Combined with the focus above on taking out pirates most of the time bases can readily defend themselves against the majority of attacks. I'll keep a few defensive ships around in hot spots only.

I don't use defensive bases. One heavily armed starport is harder to defeat that a couple of smaller defensive bases (with equal overall firepower / shields) e.g. attackers can focus fire on a single defensive base etc.

I played around at one stage with armed civilians but always regretted it as they can lead to conflict at times that aren't ideal. Instead, they're fast, and so can escape almost any situation.

I have starports at every colony. Small starports are designed to be built quickly and are as small as possible with minimal arms. Medium starports are designed for general use over colonies. Large starports only for homeworlds. All starports have medical/recreation centres.

I'll progressively build gas mining stations around the map for refuelling and scanning purposes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lando005

Another thing we haven't talked about are the combative ability of our stationary and non military units. I myself do not arm any of my civilian vessles or bases ( this is purely a role play driven choice on my part) At one point my exploration ships were armed but I decided against it for now. I was also thinking about putting a resource profiler on my military ships as well as cargo bays etc but again I've decided against that for right now. as far as star bases and defensive bases go I keep defensive bases at every colony but star bases are only buit at the system capital and are exclusively for military ship use. Although with my last game I did find myself setting up a starbase and a few other support stations in a remote unclaimed system to act as a forward command base this has proven very effective as my enemy at the time was across a nebula cloud that covered an entire sector at the time my long range abilities were limited so I needed a place to refuel.

< Message edited by lando005 -- 7/31/2013 3:04:03 AM >

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 39

RE: Fleet tactic - 7/31/2013 3:50:05 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lando005
I've been thinking long term enemy denial capabilities which is where my defensive bases come into play, eventually they will not only serve to protect my colonies and forward operational facilities but act as long term blocaides of enemy forces (especially once I equip them with hyper jaming tech). For example when I've beaten an enemy back to their home world I would build one or more of them in orbit of that planet to prevent them from rebuilding their forces. Or an even more ambitious idea is to build them along trade routes or cut off an entire system. How is putting the long range scanner on your explorers working out for you? I've tried doing that with my escorts but my over all speed suffers greatly to the point that it doesn't seem worth it.

I find using scanners on explorers and bases the most efficient approach. A number of explorers are placed initially around my territory, then in larger rings, then the whole map once Ultra Long Range Scanners are available i.e. in areas where bases don't provide coverage. I don't use escorts, I simply use the largest military ship I can build (which never has a scanner), and each fleet has an explorer with a scanner, so it can hunt in areas where I don't have coverage yet.

I would suggest that using scanners on escorts is inefficient as many scanners will cover the same territory. I'd rather use the space on my military ships for weapons, shields or speed.

Once available, my military ships and bases will always have Hyperdeny, so those pesky construction ships (etc) can't get away.

Note with early explorers I tend to wait until I have enough ship building size available to have scanners and also keep reasonable speeds. Early game the explorers will find the first round of targets to attack anyway.

Whenever practical I often go straight for the home system (particularly early to mid game) ... cut off the head of the snake so to speak.

Personally I'm quite happy for them to (try to) attack so I rarely use hyper jump disruption ... so I can blow them away!

< Message edited by Icemania -- 7/31/2013 3:56:32 AM >

(in reply to lando005)

Post #: 40

RE: Fleet tactic - 7/31/2013 1:49:18 PM

Plant

Posts: 418
Joined: 4/23/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

One thing that you may not be aware of is that non-hyperspace ships have a significant maintenance discount and without the hyperdrive and extra energy requirements, you can really go to town in other areas.

Regards,

- Erik

I didn't know that! That's actually a really cool game design decision. I wonder how much the maintentence discount is, and the threshold for individual people to regard it as a viable decision to build ships without hyperspace. As the game goes on, the less the maintenence discount is worth though, as there are more systems controlled, and larger ship sizes. For me the threshold would be something like a fifth of the original maintenence and the fraction would eventually become so small, that even no maintenance would not be worth it, as you have to pay for the cost of production.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 41

RE: Fleet tactic - 7/31/2013 8:11:51 PM

lando005

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Joined: 6/8/2013
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I guess it wouldn't have to be an escort, I just wanted something small and fast for recon scout missions. At the moment I'm deciding against scanners that large on my ships but that should be ok my fleet and empire activities should stay within the relm of my scan net if I play my cards right

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 42

RE: Fleet tactic - 8/4/2013 7:21:36 PM

lando005

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Joined: 6/8/2013
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I've been doing some more tweeking of my fleet and base tactics and thought I might share.

For star bases since there's generally no theme to them this gives me a wide range of use. As of right now I've been using them as military exclusive construction yards and command bases. I've also included troops and fighters into the design to help replenish fleet units or to support any worlds that come under attack.

As far as my fleets go there are some technologies that I must take into account: cloaks, area weapons, ion weapons, gravity weapons, remote shield rechargers. I plan on each ship specializing in an area, most likely as a "special feature" rather than simply replacing a weapons system. I'm still tweeking what a 15 ship fleet would compose of, but I have two configurations down for my 10 ship fleet. Carriers will act as the lead ships in my fleets. All fleet designs are around the theme of general purpose, multi role functionality:

Type 1: 4 curisers 3 capital ships, 1 carrier, 1 troop transport, 1 resupply ship
Type 2: 3 destroyers, 2 cruisers, 2 capital ships, 1 carrier, 1 troop transport, 1 resupply ship

I believe area weapons will be equipped on my captial ships as suggested by the game. I haven't decided if remote shield chagers will be included on one of the assult ship types or one of the support ships to give them something to do in the middle of a fight. Gravity weapons seem to be the most destructive and I'm thinking about them on either destroyers or capital ships. I haven't played a game long enough to get to these higher tech levels to see how they play out yet though, for now this is all just idle planning

(in reply to lando005)

Post #: 43

RE: Fleet tactic - 8/5/2013 5:41:32 PM

Plant

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You say "All fleet designs are around the theme of general purpose, multi role functionality". So what differentiates between your destroyers, curisers and capital ships? Other than area weapon on capital ship. You say Carriers act as lead ship. What does this mean? You give it plenty of shields and send it first to an enemy ship/base?

(in reply to lando005)

Post #: 44

RE: Fleet tactic - 8/5/2013 6:04:36 PM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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Just to throw in something different to this discussion. Nearly ever one here has got themselves a set of stock ships and hence a set research approach that they use in the game for every alien race, baring the few special race techs available. Nothing wrong with this as it's how the game plays but I find it boaring.

Already built into the game is the AI set of race preferences for techs used and reseached which is much more likely to happen. History is scattered with differences with how races on earth used the same type of weapon but with different fighting tactics. French Napoleonic Column verses the British Line both armed with muskets; the WW2 Tiger verses the T34 both tanks etc.

Why not give races a bounus for using some technology, e.g the current AI preference setting. That way you won't get the standard approach to playing every race. This would be on top of the current special techs and does not debar you from used other 'aquired' weapons as again this has happened endlessly.

This is a thought and I would like to hear what others think.

(in reply to lando005)

Post #: 45

RE: Fleet tactic - 8/5/2013 7:17:45 PM

lando005

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Joined: 6/8/2013
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When I say lead ship I mean I usually select it as the command ship of the fleet and equip it wth fleet bonus items: fleet combat sensors and the likes. My destroyers are intended to do the highest amount of damage possible, heavier weapons, (I'm leaning more towards them carrying the gravity weapons) while my cruisers I haven't quite figured out yet. I orginally intend curiser designs in space games to have an extremely long range but I dont see that as a good option here so I may equip them with ion weapons.

(in reply to Plant)

Post #: 46

RE: Fleet tactic - 8/5/2013 7:22:56 PM

lando005

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Personally I would have prefered if each race or atleast each racial type got its own tech tree instead of the three standard ones and you make technologies tradeable or atleast most of them, every racial group has their own mode of transportation, weapons and defenses, this would make the dynamics much more interesting

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 47