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Hexes in SC3 - 7/25/2013 12:13:09 AM   
norvandave


Posts: 85
Joined: 2/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Status: offline 		Hubert, I don't play Civ 5, but I have seen my son play it and it uses hexes. It would be amazing to see something like that for SC3.

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Post #: 1
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/25/2013 12:57:21 AM   
gwgardner

 

Posts: 6722
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline 		The pre-alpha screenshots of SC3 show hexes. The diamonds/squares of SC2 was the one reason I couldn't get into it in a sustained way, so I'm very happy to see the return to hexes. I believe SC3 will be a must buy.

(in reply to norvandave)
Post #: 2
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/25/2013 2:28:35 AM   
TR

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		It's been a while, and I had to a double take when I heard the name Hubert Carter. SC3 with hexes. A most definite need to buy.

(in reply to gwgardner)
Post #: 3
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/25/2013 4:26:48 AM   
SeaMonkey

 

Posts: 804
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		It's "Cater", synonymous with the list of developers in "The Wargaming Hall of Fame", the "Cater List".

(in reply to TR)
Post #: 4
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/25/2013 4:52:16 AM   
benpark

 

Posts: 3884
Joined: 8/12/2002
Status: offline 		Thank you for returning to hexes. The scale of the pre-alpha map is great. The Soviet Union is going to be a lot of hexes to get lost in before winter hits.

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(in reply to SeaMonkey)
Post #: 5
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/25/2013 10:55:05 AM   
KuniworthII

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline 		It's of course a big relief to finally get hexes again. Some have said tiles are better but for wargaming hexes are superior. Don't you agree Sea Monkey?

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Post #: 6
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/25/2013 4:23:55 PM   
SeaMonkey

 

Posts: 804
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		I agree that some humans lack space-shape relationship skills and are not prepared to dwell into surrealistic concept evaluations. Some can't even function in real life, no big deal, I'm here to help.

Actually, I prefer Dave's movement grid that is applied to Panther Games, but for the masses, the sheople, hexes will do, but rhombi had its advantages.

(in reply to KuniworthII)
Post #: 7
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/25/2013 6:52:28 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, Strategic Command 3 will be hex-based.

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to SeaMonkey)
Post #: 8
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/26/2013 4:14:28 AM   
DSWargamer

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/25/2010
Status: offline 		I am proud to say I have never cheated on my beloved hexes.

I have never slept with tiles.

Squares are ok, but tiles hurt the eyes.

Kuni what's Rambo's take on this?

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 9
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/26/2013 1:08:49 PM   
Magpius


Posts: 1632
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Is Jersey John and all the old guard going to appear here?
SC1 had some brilliant threads.

(in reply to DSWargamer)
Post #: 10
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/26/2013 1:31:43 PM   
DSWargamer

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/25/2010
Status: offline 		It is logical to assume the old guard already is here.

Give it a week and this place will likely have all the rest of the usual names.

(in reply to Magpius)
Post #: 11
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/26/2013 4:57:00 PM   
KuniworthII

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

It is logical to assume the old guard already is here.

Give it a week and this place will likely have all the rest of the usual names.



Lol is it Les?

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Post #: 12
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/26/2013 4:59:26 PM   
KuniworthII

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Agent S

Is Jersey John and all the old guard going to appear here?
SC1 had some brilliant threads.




Hello Agent S! Im moving over here now, got a three month ban for bashing tiles so it's farewell to BF.

_____________________________


(in reply to Magpius)
Post #: 13
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/26/2013 5:03:07 PM   
KuniworthII

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Yes, Strategic Command 3 will be hex-based.




Erik: Hubert is not only bringing a great franchise to you, he also brings with him a bad ass community from BF that have supported the series for 15 years. We will make sure sc3 is supported and help out matrix games the best we can.

< Message edited by Kuniworth II -- 7/26/2013 5:05:01 PM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/26/2013 5:22:10 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kuniworth II
Erik: Hubert is not only bringing a great franchise to you, he also brings with him a bad ass community from BF that have supported the series for 15 years. We will make sure sc3 is supported and help out matrix games the best we can.


Thank you - we very much look forward to getting to know the new faces/names and working together with you all.

Regards,

- Erik



_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to KuniworthII)
Post #: 15
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/26/2013 6:49:04 PM   
DSWargamer

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kuniworth II


quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

It is logical to assume the old guard already is here.

Give it a week and this place will likely have all the rest of the usual names.



Lol is it Les?


I get mistaken for others on a regular basis it seems.

I guess sorting out the profile would help.


< Message edited by DSWargamer -- 7/26/2013 6:56:32 PM >

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I have too many too complicated wargames, and not enough sufficiently interested non wargamer friends.

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Post #: 16
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/27/2013 2:09:40 AM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
It is logical to assume the old guard already is here.


Roger that!

(in reply to DSWargamer)
Post #: 17
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/27/2013 3:39:36 AM   
SeaMonkey

 

Posts: 804
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		"Build it and they will come!"

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 18
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/27/2013 4:05:47 AM   
Magpius


Posts: 1632
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Ahhh Kuni, are we talking about masturbation yet?

I'm looking forward to those marvellous flame wars.
The poetry of desert dave, (not so much).
and all those that had hilariously locked threads.
SC1 so much fun.
SC3 will be AWESOME
(there is no 2 (hexless))

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Post #: 19
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/30/2013 12:39:37 AM   
norvandave


Posts: 85
Joined: 2/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Status: offline 		I should have been more clear when I asked about hexes. I know there are going to be hexes. I was asking if Hubert had seen Civ 5 and the cool innovative way that it uses hexes, with the hex animations and real time zooming and the like. It was the best usage of hexes i have seen. I know that he doesn't have a huge team of programmers but perhaps he can use some of their techniques. Just a thought...

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First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

(in reply to Magpius)
Post #: 20
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/30/2013 10:49:36 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Hubert got bombarded with ideas from myself and Bill for SC3. So there are a lot of things on the list. What Hubert puts in is up to him. There have been strong improvements with the A.I. also in the last 2 expansion packs. I am the designer of them and had input on the internal A.I.

But a good game takes time to test correctly. All the ideas can't just be dumped in there in one shot.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to norvandave)
Post #: 21
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/31/2013 1:05:36 AM   
DSWargamer

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/25/2010
Status: offline 		"But a good game takes time to test correctly. All the ideas can't just be dumped in there in one shot."

Truer words have never been spoken.

_____________________________

I have too many too complicated wargames, and not enough sufficiently interested non wargamer friends.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 22
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 7/31/2013 3:53:23 AM   
SeaMonkey

 

Posts: 804
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		Alright, Big Al has checked in. I'm wondering Al, how receptive is Hubert and Bill going to be to build a truly innovative strategic wargame? And what is this Slitherine/Matrix support team really willing to commit to? Are we going traditional, or are we going to work this SC3 edition into something new?

We all know the weak mechanics of the naval SC have left us lacking and I'm sure everyone recognizes that SC3 will profit most from emphasis in this arena. Is there any current wargame models that lend thoughts of how the naval SC3 will evolve and do you have any idea of what the foundation for naval movement will be?

(in reply to DSWargamer)
Post #: 23
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 8/1/2013 12:07:56 AM   
KuniworthII

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

I am proud to say I have never cheated on my beloved hexes.

I have never slept with tiles.

Squares are ok, but tiles hurt the eyes.

Kuni what's Rambo's take on this?



Have'nt heard from Rambo in ages, last I heard he was going to a party dressed as sailor moon

Anyhow I know he posted back in the sc2 days that he did prefer hexes.

< Message edited by Kuniworth II -- 8/1/2013 12:08:33 AM >

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Post #: 24
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 8/1/2013 4:15:52 AM   
Robert24


Posts: 176
Joined: 7/26/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StratComAl

Hubert got bombarded with ideas from myself and Bill for SC3. So there are a lot of things on the list. What Hubert puts in is up to him. There have been strong improvements with the A.I. also in the last 2 expansion packs. I am the designer of them and had input on the internal A.I.

But a good game takes time to test correctly. All the ideas can't just be dumped in there in one shot.


Totally agree, the level of effort put into testing has really helped the quality of SC2... I hope we can continue with that.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 25
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 8/2/2013 12:51:17 AM   
norvandave


Posts: 85
Joined: 2/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaMonkey

Alright, Big Al has checked in. I'm wondering Al, how receptive is Hubert and Bill going to be to build a truly innovative strategic wargame? And what is this Slitherine/Matrix support team really willing to commit to? Are we going traditional, or are we going to work this SC3 edition into something new?


I would like to see something a little new, not just a rehash of SC1/SC2 with hexes. That's kinda why I suggested looking at what Civ 5 does, even if it is just for ideas.

_____________________________

First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

(in reply to SeaMonkey)
Post #: 26
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 8/2/2013 1:59:02 AM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaMonkey

Alright, Big Al has checked in. I'm wondering Al, how receptive is Hubert and Bill going to be to build a truly innovative strategic wargame? And what is this Slitherine/Matrix support team really willing to commit to? Are we going traditional, or are we going to work this SC3 edition into something new?

We all know the weak mechanics of the naval SC have left us lacking and I'm sure everyone recognizes that SC3 will profit most from emphasis in this arena. Is there any current wargame models that lend thoughts of how the naval SC3 will evolve and do you have any idea of what the foundation for naval movement will be?


An accurate WW2 naval model is very hard to replicate. There was so much luck, tactics, and information gathering in WW2 naval battles that its very hard to accurately replicate. I gave my input to Hubert from my decades of experience. But one step at a time. I am not sure what he is including in SC3.

I think fleets should be in with abstract modeling of naval combat including target selection and naval airpower.
Fleet orders could be intercept, evade, escort, patrol.

Personally I liked how some board wargames handled naval battles with taskforces and missions. Die rolls determine what finds what and how the combat comes out. One of the largest problems is scale. Land based airpower has far more planes than a group of CVs. But CVs can fly more missions.

Just like a Stuka could fly many missions in a day or week while a long range strategic bomber mission not so many. Its hard to balance.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to SeaMonkey)
Post #: 27
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 8/2/2013 3:21:28 PM   
Robert24


Posts: 176
Joined: 7/26/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StratComAl


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaMonkey

Alright, Big Al has checked in. I'm wondering Al, how receptive is Hubert and Bill going to be to build a truly innovative strategic wargame? And what is this Slitherine/Matrix support team really willing to commit to? Are we going traditional, or are we going to work this SC3 edition into something new?

We all know the weak mechanics of the naval SC have left us lacking and I'm sure everyone recognizes that SC3 will profit most from emphasis in this arena. Is there any current wargame models that lend thoughts of how the naval SC3 will evolve and do you have any idea of what the foundation for naval movement will be?


An accurate WW2 naval model is very hard to replicate. There was so much luck, tactics, and information gathering in WW2 naval battles that its very hard to accurately replicate. I gave my input to Hubert from my decades of experience. But one step at a time. I am not sure what he is including in SC3.

I think fleets should be in with abstract modeling of naval combat including target selection and naval airpower.
Fleet orders could be intercept, evade, escort, patrol.

Personally I liked how some board wargames handled naval battles with taskforces and missions. Die rolls determine what finds what and how the combat comes out. One of the largest problems is scale. Land based airpower has far more planes than a group of CVs. But CVs can fly more missions.

Just like a Stuka could fly many missions in a day or week while a long range strategic bomber mission not so many. Its hard to balance.


StratComAI,
Cool, I do like your ideas. To balance - that may be the key. Can you categorize your ideas; don't list details; just the top line issues that need to be addressed?
-Robert

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 28
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 8/2/2013 4:37:20 PM   
SeaMonkey

 

Posts: 804
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		Generally speaking, I believe that naval movement and recon should be addressed by a dual system of areas(zones) filled with hexes. There will be "area" missions, like recon and patrol where success proceeds to actual battles that will be carried out by hex maneuver within the "area" zone. Only the naval-air units within the "area" zone will participate in the combat.

Movement ranges of naval vessels will reflect their ability to traverse the zones(areas) in the time allocation of an SC turn.

(in reply to Robert24)
Post #: 29
RE: Hexes in SC3 - 8/3/2013 3:37:55 AM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Doing a naval system is tough. While things can be randomized in a board game and rolling dice is the excitement within a PC game that is different you need decisions that impact the battle but not make it tedious.

Like I find the naval system in the board game Advanced European Theatre of Operations interesting but its too tedious. And I find Matrix's War in the Pacific naval system too boring. Sure its full of detail but I have no control. Its all automatic. You set a fleet to do a mission, the enemy sets his to intercept and bam results.

I think players want some input in their fleet.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to SeaMonkey)
Post #: 30
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