Nikademus
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Joined: 5/27/2000
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by rlc27
[B]Then they were...what? Miller's "Warships 1860-present" lists all of the ships you mention under the category of Battlecruisers. [/B][/QUOTE]
Admitedly the interpretation of "battlecruiser" can vary from author to author, and historian to historian. I made my statement with not a small dash of tongue in cheek. But i will explain my reasonings.
First off, let me define my interpretation of "battlecruiser"
A "pure' battlecruiser in my mind is a captial ship sized warship armed with battleship caliber weapons but armored on the scale of a cruiser.
I say "pure" battlecruiser as my pet defination of the type as originally defined by the British with the debut of HMS Invincible, the world's first. She was essentially, an armored cruiser armed with 12 inch guns. Other battlecruisers were less so in design, hence not "pure" battlecruisers. the best examples being the later German BC's of the Moltke, Seydlitz and particularily the Derflinger class which were more akin to pseudo-fast battleships.
Obviously with that definition alone, one could rank Dunkerque as a BC or even Deutchland in an extreme situation given their light armor but i also define a BC by its designation and perceived role as defined by the building nation. The French navy for example never classified or considered the Dunkerque to be a BC, but a "light battleship", designed to counter the Deutchlands and was designated as such as "batiments de lignre" (The French parliment did call them variously Battleships, battlecruisers and even "armored ships")
The Americans did the same thing with Alaska designating them CB "Large Cruisers" in what i've always felt was an effort to distance them from the BC concept (given its unpopularity traditionally within the USN design bearu) but unlike Dunkerque, the Alaska class had many design features that clearly put it in the BC catagory.
As such i will go to the specific examples :)
1) Deutchland
Easiest of the examples. She was no battlecruiser, either in design or in designation. The Germans never designated her as such, starting with the obscure but descriptive "Panzerschiff" (armored ship) and later simply "CA" (Schwerekreuzer or Heavy Cruiser) once the mystique of the type wore off and their capabilities were more known.
While i define a BC as BB armed ship armored to cruiser scale, the design usually attempts to provide "some" level of protection against heavy shells. Even the Invincible's had some measure of protection against the heavy 1904-06 shells of the time and her design focused not on rejection of a heavy shell but on localization of the damage when hit by one. Later generations of British BC's had in limited places more substantial armor that gave them better protection against heavy shells which at the same time made them very resistant if not immune to cruiser shells. (BC's were as a general rule at least as heavy or heavier than BB's and ususally longer to preserve the beam to length ratio needed for high speed, thus that part of my definiation that says "capital ship sized vessel")
Deutchland had none of these properties. She was smaller than a BB or BC and her protection was purely light cruiser scale. Even her armament was below par for a capital ship. Finally she was slower than most cruisers, all surviving battlecruisers (by a signifigant margin) and even some newer battleships soon to debut. In the end she was nothing more than a very heavily gunned cruiser. Sort of a modern version of the Couragious class "Large Light Cruisers" of Fisher's fancy.
2) Dunkerque.
Although the concept started as Croiseur de Combat, once the announcement was made that the Germans were building a 10000 ton cruiser of the Deutchland class the French ceased work on it and began planning a ship in which protection and armament would be stressed.....hence the light battleship concept.
"light" in terms that the French merely designed a battleship not to establish or meet the status quo (that being a 35,000 ton BB armed with a maximum caliber of 16 inch guns) but one to meet a percieved threat and role. That being 11 inch armed cruisers and/or battleships. For this the powerful 13 inch gun was considered fine (and was as it was very powerful for its size) as the protection against 11 inch shellfire was considered adequate as well (9 inch on the belt, but inclined to increase protection substantially)
Strassbourg was even more of a light BB than her sister as she was heavily modified on learning of the Scharnhorst and more importantly Italy's decision to build two 15 inch armed BB's. Hence her thicker protection, 11 inch on the belt, inclined and thicker deck and turret armor.
The reasoning behind them was simply that France was not a rich nation and most of her funds went naturally to her huge army guarding the border with Germany, as such it was hard to get BB's approved for the navy....and what were, were authorized only to the specs felt necessary to meet a percieved threat....hence two light BB's not built to the maximum stats allowable.
True they are fast, but all battleships of this era were "fast" so speed alone is no longer a valid definition of a battlecruiser. By that token South Dakota, or Bismarck could be considered battlecruisers too. :)
With the announcement though, of full sized treaty BB's being made by her traditional naval rival, Italy, A light BB would no longer due hence the move to the full sized BB class of the Richelieu design.
3) Scharnhorst.
Again, never designated a BC in German circles. The only reason they are often classified as BC's in some sources is due to their armament, which like the Dunkerque, was simply not as large as allowable under current treaties. The decision to arm them with 11 inch guns was "purely" a political move on Hitler's part so as not to upset or disturb the British whom he was still courting at this time. In all other characteristics though, they were BB's, particularily in protection which, on the verticial at least was quite substantial for the time. As such, Hitler did want them later armed with 15 inch guns and Geneisenau was taken in hand after damage for this purpose. The navy never wanted them armed with 11 inch in the first place and it would prove their greatest weakness in the coming war.
4) Hood
Hood was originally designed as a battlecruiser and had far different stats than she came out with. However after Jutland, naturally the British re-considered the BC, (which was actually never popular in Admiralty circles in the first place) and she was redesigned to the best extent possible to debut as the world's first true fast-battleship.
However, because her design was in an advanced state at the time of the change, only so much could be done hence she debuted as a classic incremental armor design with the weight of her protection focused on the verticle (flat trajectory shellfire) vs a true "all or nothing" armor design which would be a standard on most battleship designs till it's demise in 1945.
This was still adequate for 1920 but proved totally inadequate for WWII and it was this weakness that killed her, not the fact that she was lumped as a "battlecruiser"
Her side protection was quite formidable at full BB scale, 12 inch, inclined to 11 degrees along the citidel and improved and better protected main armament, particularily in regards to the turret roofs. Ironically she also incorporated far better though somewhat complicated safetey interlocks within her gunhouse and shell/powder handling rooms
However she never received the modernization so desperately needed and her multiple armor decks (avg thickness 1-1.5 HT steel) were wholely inadequate to protect her at the ranges fought and against the better quality shells deployed in WWII.
While the exact nature of her demise can never be known the best theory is that a high velocity 15 inch shell from Bismarck, penetrated her middle 7 inch belt (characterisic of the incremental designs of WWI), slammed through two thin armored decks and exploded either in the 15 inch aft mag or the outer 4 inch mag settting them off (another theory is that the shell penetrated to the aft engine room causing an explosion which went through the thin bulkhead aft into the aft mags)
British cordite did the rest.....despite improvements and saftey interlocks, it still is amiable to detonation though in fairness, any shell detonating inside a magazine will often set it off.
On a note on "designation" it should be realized that the British changed the classification after WWI. This was done both to differentiate the two types of BB they envisioned as well as to define their roles. Hence capital ships designed for the line, with the emphasis being on the heaviest possible armament and protection, speed a distant third, were designated "Battleships" while 'fast' capital ships which accepted a smaller amament and scale of protection for greater speed, but one that still put them clearly in the battleship catagory were designated "battlecruisers". Such ships would fill the role such as that utilized by the 5th battlesquadron at Jutland. (Corresponding designs were, N3 and G3, both never built)
the remaining Hood's of course were never built as it was realized that even with the modifications that not all of the lessons learned during the war could be incorporated hence her design was too expensive to justify for ships that would be expected to carry the Royal navy into the 1920's and even beyond.
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