RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/20/2013 6:06:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

Well, unless I missed an impulse you're only 1 impulse away from doing just that.

Knowing me I am never sure what impulse I am in

besides I think Steve wants me to halt the Panzers to get a rest and attack Denmark. And if I dont, Adolph Steve has a little suprise for me

I better think more about his suggestion.

Appreciate you keeping an eye on me, let me know when I am making a military mistake

Bo

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Post #: 91

RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/20/2013 6:16:23 PM

composer99

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I guess it depends on whether the Allies are going to attack and invade Denmark themselves or not.

As long as you're playing a land impulse you can sack Warsaw and attack Denmark at the same time.

When you posted the picture of your setup against Denmark, you showed that you had the infantry corps ready to nab Copenhagen, and the mechanized corps ready to guard the coast (and especially the northern island).

quote:

The mechanized corps should be sufficient to deter an Allied attack, although I suppose if the British are determined enough and are willing to commit enough units (and risk a bad roll wiping out the attacking force) they could scrape together a 2:1 or 3:1 assault.

One thing I like to do as the Germans is invade Denmark with enough units so that I take control of every hex on the North Sea coast - that is, so that no Allied units can simply debark there. This is prohibitive to do with corps units only, of course, you need to have division units in play to make it work.

_____________________________

~ Composer99

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/20/2013 7:03:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

I guess it depends on whether the Allies are going to attack and invade Denmark themselves or not.

As long as you're playing a land impulse you can sack Warsaw and attack Denmark at the same time.

When you posted the picture of your setup against Denmark, you showed that you had the infantry corps ready to nab Copenhagen, and the mechanized corps ready to guard the coast (and especially the northern island).

quote:

The mechanized corps should be sufficient to deter an Allied attack, although I suppose if the British are determined enough and are willing to commit enough units (and risk a bad roll wiping out the attacking force) they could scrape together a 2:1 or 3:1 assault.

One thing I like to do as the Germans is invade Denmark with enough units so that I take control of every hex on the North Sea coast - that is, so that no Allied units can simply debark there. This is prohibitive to do with corps units only, of course, you need to have division units in play to make it work.

Good point composer, the mech unit has a lot of work to do, it has to move quickly. We shall see.

Bo

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Post #: 93

RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/20/2013 9:50:15 PM

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I decided to bring 2 air wings east to interdict anything the Polish air force could throw at my ground troops. I put one of them 1 hex west of Warsaw the Bf 110c with a air to air rating of [4] --2 hex's west of that unit in the city of Poznan I put the other air wing the Bf 109 with an excellent air to air rating of a [5] I hope this will suffice and keep my ground units from suffering any damage if they are attacked.

Bo

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Post #: 94

RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/20/2013 10:07:31 PM

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This screen shows a headquarters unit von Brock, and the program is asking if you would like to spend any of your reorganization points to reorganize any of the three units depicted in the upper left hand corner. When a headquarters unit spends its points it becomes disorganized depicting that it used all of its own resources to organize any of those units. The symbol on the unit 7[3]3 means 7 attack and defence strength [3] reorganization points available to the HQ unit and 3, movement.

I have decided to reorganize the Ju 87B which will need 1 point and the level bomber Do 17Z which will need 2 points. Normally the Ju 87B would have needed 2 points but 1 point was provided by an air transport plane supplying the Stuka with 1 point in a previous phase. [If this is confusing I trully apoligize but this will come to most of you very easy after a little bit of playing]

Why reorganize these 2 units? I probably wont need them for the attack on Warsaw it was I just wanted to show posters all possible phases and choices. Why did I pick the Do 17Z instead of the He 111h?

Reason the Do 17Z besides it's ground attack factor of 3 has an air to air combat rating of 3 it can defend itself very nicely while the other plane has a rating of 1. Just an easy choice for me.

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< Message edited by bo -- 9/21/2013 4:40:29 PM >

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 1:03:55 AM

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The reorganization is now complete. Now to show you the results of that reorganization.

Notice the Ju 52 in the city of Rostock 2 hexes northwest of Stettin, that is the transport plane that delivered supplies to the Ju 87B it is now disorganized because of that mission to replenish some of the Ju 87B's supplies to fight in the next impulse [1] reorganization point was all that the transport plane carried.

1-The Ju 87B no longer has the orange circle on top of it [orange meaning disorganized]

2-The Do 17Z no longer has the orange circle same reason.

3-The von Bock Headquaeters unit now has an orange circle over it [meaning it is now disorganized] due to resupplying 2 units.

If you notice the Ju 87B has only 270 km range [3hex's] it cannot reach Warsaw but it does not matter I just wanted to show how easy it is to organize units that have been disrupted.

Bo

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 1:48:47 AM

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In a last ditch attempt to save Warsaw the Polish 4-3 corp and the elite 5-3 corp have moved next to the the German armored Panzer group to hopefully in conjuction of an air attack with the Polish bomber group escorted by the Polish fighter squadron. That attack is about to begin.

Bo

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< Message edited by bo -- 9/21/2013 1:55:16 AM >

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 2:18:16 AM

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This valiant attack against the German armored did not go well for the Polish units the Polish 4-3 corp was destroyed in combat the Polish elite unit was so banged up it became disorganized. Orange circle over the unit, the combat odds were [1/1] not good when you are attacking. I know you wont believe this but I blundered I did not calculate the Polish air force bomber unit distance correctly it can only reach 3 hexes.

I got cocky and careless, you have to be aware of situations at all times.

The only light coming through this little crack of war is that they will be in the fight for Warsaw . I am serious I really made a mistake.

If I keep this up everybody will want to play me

Steve will be happy I just declared war on Denmark.

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< Message edited by bo -- 9/21/2013 3:19:07 AM >

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 3:07:49 AM

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The weather is fine the German invasion had better get moving before bad weather might set in.

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< Message edited by bo -- 9/21/2013 3:21:16 AM >

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 3:16:51 AM

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Sorry about the picture guess I am getting a little tired.

I chose a land attack for this 5th impulse of the sept/oct turn, but it is Germanys 3rd move [3 German 2 Polish]

Air missions -4
Naval moves- none
Rail moves-3
Land moves-unlimited
Land attacks-unlimited

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< Message edited by bo -- 9/21/2013 3:34:47 AM >

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 3:17:42 AM

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The first park of this attack is against Denmark, the German high command sent the Mech 8-6 unit north into Denmark, with a maxium range of 540 km's [6 hexes] it easily reached Frederikshavn the largest most northen city in Denmark making sure it captured the port city of Aarhus on it's way The Baltic sea is turning into a German lake. Part 2 of the attack is commencing.

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< Message edited by bo -- 9/21/2013 3:45:30 AM >

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 4:13:01 AM

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The German infantry smashed into Copenhagan making all the ships in the left corner box try to escape to England but the Mech unit in Frederikshavn ended all thoughts of them escaping, all were either captured or destroyed, that is why the German mech unit captured Aarhus first so the fleet could not use that port, but it would not have mattered anyway.

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< Message edited by bo -- 9/24/2013 7:25:19 PM >

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 4:21:55 AM

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Finally the German armies have closed on Warsaw, this air battle was the opening phase of combat,
This screen depicts the attack by the Polish bomber group with fighter escort attacking German units attempting to enter Warsaw. The Bf 109 fired first and destroyed the Polish bomber fleet the P.23
The German player had the choice of destroying the fighter or the bomber, it made sense to destroy the bomber because the fighter posed no threat to the German forces on the ground.

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< Message edited by bo -- 9/21/2013 4:32:24 AM >

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 4:35:35 AM

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A lot of screens to work with, the Polish planes fired and missed. This picture shows the German fighter shooting down the Polish fighter. The combat ratings of the 2 planes are obvious the German plane has a 5 rating and the Polish plane has a 3 rating, pretty big difference in MWIF.

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< Message edited by bo -- 11/21/2013 5:20:40 PM >

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 4:41:10 AM

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Warsaw falls, demolished by the German armed forces, at the same time the elite Polish unit was under attack.

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 4:44:05 AM

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The last Polish unit has been destroyed, Warsaw has fallen, Denmark has been conquered, joy in Berlin.

I am letting the Polish naval units stay in Danzig for a reason I want to see what happens to them at the end of the first move of Fascist tide. Normally when I beta tested I always went into Danzig early and dispersed them or captured them.

Now this was impulse # 5 in game turn one, but it was only the 3rd German impulse in the first turn. I would say in real life time in most was likely the third or fourth week of September.

I let this whole AAR play out just as you would playing for real at home I did nothing to change any combat. I did fudge one thing and that was when Germany declared war on Denmark and I was about to invade Denmark I fixed the weather to be fine, had it rained the 4-4 German infantry could never had reached Copenhagen, muddy roads, not sure of the Mech unit reaching Frederikshavn in the rain did not test it.

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 5:23:45 AM

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This is one of many pools in the game that you can refer to during the game. This is the destroyed pool, all of the Polish units have been destroyed along with 2 naval units belonging to Denmark. I am wondering where the other Danish naval units went I was clicking so fast I did not watch carefully what happened. I know they never got out of the Baltic sea, maybe I will rerun the captue of Copenhagen and see what goes. It is possible I have captured them and they will reappear later belonging to Germany.

Or convoys do not appear on the destroyed screen. This screen showing destroyed units will clear out at the end of every turn, and start fresh with the next game turn.

Bo

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 5:36:56 AM

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This pool is the Nov/Dec chart of units coming into the game for the Germans I used a filter to just show the German reinforcements for Nov/Dec. The German reinforcements are.

1-Ju 88A1 - a level bomber

2-Submarine

3-Submarine

4-VII Waffen SS corp 6-3 ---- SS---Schutzstaffel.

5-An offensive chit-depicting a build up of supplies for a major engagement. This one is free the next one will cost 15 production points.

Germany heads West.

Bo

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 1:59:56 PM

Centuur

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I'm going to commend a little on strategy here now, Bo, if you don't mind.

First, the goal of the Allies in the game should be to delay the Axis advances. Therefore, don't expect the Poles to survice, just make sure it takes the Germans time to take them out. There are however, some nice tricks that could be done with the Polish army and air force, I like to put those in here.

Poland is a somewhat strange country. It is the only country in the game, which still can have land units on the board, when they are completely conquered. In WiF Headquarters (HQ) are quite important units and the CW has the opportunity to save the Polish HQ from removal form the game and rebuild it in the UK after the USSR goes to war with Germany. To do so, the CW has to make sure the Polish HQ gets interned in the USSR during the USSR occupation of Eastern Poland, since all land units there become available for building in the CW after the USSR-German war breaks out. Therefore, don't be surprised to see a player set up the Polish HQ somewhere far away towards the USSR border (since the Poles will get killed anyway).
Same with the airplanes. The CW can get two pilots, if the optional rule "internment" is used. Air units can rebase into neutral countries and are than destroyed, but the pilot survives and can be put into another CW plane. Since the Polish airforce (as shown by Bo here) is useless against the Luftwaffe, it's something which is done quite a lot in WiF.
This means of course, that killing Poland is getting easier for the Germans, but on the other hand it might be better to keep the pilots and the HQ to fight another day.

The way Bo did set up the German airforce, I would have saved the pilots and the HQ, since I know I'm going to have no chanche on killing any German land or air units, except if the Germans would roll very, very bad...

Also, Bo set up all Danish naval vessels in Denmark itself. Allowed is to set up half a minor countries units outside it's home country in territories it controls. Now, Denmark has convoys, which the CW is going to need in the future. So, set up those convoys in Iceland, Greenland or the Far Oer Islands and they will fall in CW hands and come in handy for the war effort...

_____________________________

Peter

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 3:34:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I'm going to commend a little on strategy here now, Bo, if you don't mind.

First, the goal of the Allies in the game should be to delay the Axis advances. Therefore, don't expect the Poles to survice, just make sure it takes the Germans time to take them out. There are however, some nice tricks that could be done with the Polish army and air force, I like to put those in here.

Poland is a somewhat strange country. It is the only country in the game, which still can have land units on the board, when they are completely conquered. In WiF Headquarters (HQ) are quite important units and the CW has the opportunity to save the Polish HQ from removal form the game and rebuild it in the UK after the USSR goes to war with Germany. To do so, the CW has to make sure the Polish HQ gets interned in the USSR during the USSR occupation of Eastern Poland, since all land units there become available for building in the CW after the USSR-German war breaks out. Therefore, don't be surprised to see a player set up the Polish HQ somewhere far away towards the USSR border (since the Poles will get killed anyway).
Same with the airplanes. The CW can get two pilots, if the optional rule "internment" is used. Air units can rebase into neutral countries and are than destroyed, but the pilot survives and can be put into another CW plane. Since the Polish airforce (as shown by Bo here) is useless against the Luftwaffe, it's something which is done quite a lot in WiF.
This means of course, that killing Poland is getting easier for the Germans, but on the other hand it might be better to keep the pilots and the HQ to fight another day.

The way Bo did set up the German airforce, I would have saved the pilots and the HQ, since I know I'm going to have no chanche on killing any German land or air units, except if the Germans would roll very, very bad...

Also, Bo set up all Danish naval vessels in Denmark itself. Allowed is to set up half a minor countries units outside it's home country in territories it controls. Now, Denmark has convoys, which the CW is going to need in the future. So, set up those convoys in Iceland, Greenland or the Far Oer Islands and they will fall in CW hands and come in handy for the war effort...

This has ended our friendship forever Centuur, you will never ever again hear one of my Budweiser comments, this is on you

First and most important is good experienced players like me [7 months] never give away their combat secrets in an AAR, they wait and when they catch some experienced player, like say someone from Hoorn, they unleash all of their WIF war knowledge on that poor unsuspecting player.

Couple of comments this was a fast start game so I had nothing to do with the set up of Germany, of course I did of Poland. If I had been playing seriously

I would have put up a different kind of a fight by Poland, 2 units in Warsaw etc. Drawing the elite Polish more quickly towards Warsaw. I did not put up a real good war plan for Poland, because IHMO there is none.

I am learning every day that I start to beta test this game like the calculation that tells you what the die roll was and how it was calculated and what happened in battle, I knew it was there but never used it until the AAR.

I am sure there is not one true WIF experienced board gamer that could not whip my behind in a long game, but I will tell you this I do not care how good of a player you are if you play me in Poland you are going down, most likely in the first turn

The other, about saving pilots and such will come in time, that is why I think Annual 98 is so important to a newbie like me. Or if I have you centuur critque my every move I can burn Annual 98 and listen to you.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 9/21/2013 4:10:14 PM >

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Post #: 110

RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 8:20:12 PM

Centuur

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There's the Budweiser again... Now, I don't know if you are living anywhere near New York, but if you are, there is a craft beer festival going to happen there end of november. I just found out today, when I was looking at the Oktoberfest opening on the Internet. It simply popped up on screen. Why they thought I would want to have that add? Perhaps it's just that I write a lot of English lately on a US forum...

Now, you are slowly giving me the impression that you would like to play against me after all. You may choose the optional rules and the side you want to play... OK?

Or are you still showing a lack of morale? I'm now issuing a formal challenge...

Or do I have to force the issue by undertaking a Declaration of War?

And you are quite right. There is no really good war plan for Poland. It's dead after the first turn, except when there is a France First policy or if really bad weather occurs and stays after the first two impulses, combined with very bad combat die rolls by Germany.

_____________________________

Peter

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/21/2013 9:57:42 PM

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I will never mention B******** again, never. And of all the people I would not play right away is you centuur, you can slice me and dice me on the forums insult me about my manhood and courage, nothing will work call it fear of you if you want. And from now on

My first game hmmm what is that persons name, the one that has never seen this game before

No centuur it will not be you, I was sorta hoping crussdaddy would want to play me

bo

< Message edited by bo -- 9/21/2013 10:02:06 PM >

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/22/2013 5:46:16 AM

terje439

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo
The German player had the choice of destroying the fighter or the bomber, it made sense to destroy the bomber because the fighter posed no threat to the German forces on the ground.

"In the game" it claims that the roll was enough to destroy either a bomber or a fighter, but that the CW got to chose. Guess that was just a mix up due to you playing both sides? And I also suppose that the CW would have killed off the fighter in the hope of getting the bomber through?

Terje

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/22/2013 3:31:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo
The German player had the choice of destroying the fighter or the bomber, it made sense to destroy the bomber because the fighter posed no threat to the German forces on the ground.

"In the game" it claims that the roll was enough to destroy either a bomber or a fighter, but that the CW got to chose. Guess that was just a mix up due to you playing both sides? And I also suppose that the CW would have killed off the fighter in the hope of getting the bomber through?

Terje
[/quote

Good eyes Terje to pick that up and thank you for letting me down so gently I tried to show that in the Battle of the Coral sea one side choosing a ship and the other side choosing a ship, this one slipped past me no excuses. It is nice to see someone showing interest in this post or at least taking the time to express a concern. I made a mistake pure and simple.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 9/24/2013 7:32:39 PM >

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/22/2013 3:50:00 PM

Klydon

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It is all good Bo. Stuff happens and trying to take notes, take screen shots, and doing all the cut and paste and providing commentary isn't easy and takes a lot of work.

Honestly, I wish there had been more AAR's earlier to attract interest.

When it was announced the game would have no AI to start, I had no interest in getting it. Now, as a result of all these AAR's, etc I am not so sure on that decision and may well rethink it. WiF was one of my favorite games and unfortunately I never got a chance to play it as often as I would have liked and it has been well over 20 years since I last played. Unfortunately I am not in a position where I would play against opponents, but would love to play against an AI. Hopefully that won't take long to come out with, but I am sure it is going to take a bit. I would rather have it take a bit longer and be a better AI than to rush something out that is not very good at all. Part of the challenge for an AI is because this game is basically the board game, it is harder to give the AI "help" and it has to stand on its own a lot more.

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/22/2013 5:29:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

It is all good Bo. Stuff happens and trying to take notes, take screen shots, and doing all the cut and paste and providing commentary isn't easy and takes a lot of work.

Honestly, I wish there had been more AAR's earlier to attract interest.

When it was announced the game would have no AI to start, I had no interest in getting it. Now, as a result of all these AAR's, etc I am not so sure on that decision and may well rethink it. WiF was one of my favorite games and unfortunately I never got a chance to play it as often as I would have liked and it has been well over 20 years since I last played. Unfortunately I am not in a position where I would play against opponents, but would love to play against an AI. Hopefully that won't take long to come out with, but I am sure it is going to take a bit. I would rather have it take a bit longer and be a better AI than to rush something out that is not very good at all. Part of the challenge for an AI is because this game is basically the board game, it is harder to give the AI "help" and it has to stand on its own a lot more.

Thank you Klydon appreciate your comment, if you go back to posts in november 2009 and early 2010 you will see a battle over the AI, nobody in this forum was more AI oriented than I was just ask Steve

We took a poll and outside of board players it was overwhelming for the AI.

My feelings were if the AI was excellent, very good, good, not so good, poor or it stunk I did not care. It gave me something to practice against, I want to play when I want to play not wait for some player in Sweden or the Netherlands

to decide at 9 oclock in the AM to want to start a game with me or continue a game with me and wake me up to play and it is 3 AM in Philly, no thank you.

This game can be played solo maybe not as much fun but it can be done. And the great thing about playing against yourself and the AI is if you start losing turn the damn computer off

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/22/2013 5:37:58 PM

Klydon

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Yeah, I was here for the AI debate and put my two cents in and you are probably right as far as the quality of the AI.

For me, as a long time board gamer along with being a computer game junkie, I have played far too many computer games that had great graphics and terrible AI's. I would rather have ok graphics and good AI's. Unfortunately, it is all too often easier to make things look great than it is to develop a good AI.

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/22/2013 8:00:04 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Yeah, I was here for the AI debate and put my two cents in and you are probably right as far as the quality of the AI.

For me, as a long time board gamer along with being a computer game junkie, I have played far too many computer games that had great graphics and terrible AI's. I would rather have ok graphics and good AI's. Unfortunately, it is all too often easier to make things look great than it is to develop a good AI.

Different skill sets are needed: left brain versus right brain.

_____________________________

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg - 9/22/2013 9:14:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Yeah, I was here for the AI debate and put my two cents in and you are probably right as far as the quality of the AI.

For me, as a long time board gamer along with being a computer game junkie, I have played far too many computer games that had great graphics and terrible AI's. I would rather have ok graphics and good AI's. Unfortunately, it is all too often easier to make things look great than it is to develop a good AI.

Different skill sets are needed: left brain versus right brain.

Or no brain

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 119

RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg-AAR - 9/23/2013 1:37:39 AM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

I went through the allied move phase 6 too many screens to do it. And now I am in the German phase 7 of the first turn, I saw the weather it was a nasty storm, the North sea was very turbulent, visibilty was not good. Now every player will know the weather for that turn as it is the first screen of a new phase [impulse]

Bo