Missiles, base pK, agility and degree of control

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Missiles, base pK, agility and degree of control

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Missiles, base pK, agility and degree of control

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Missiles, base pK, agility and degree of control - 9/27/2013 6:45:05 AM

JWNoctis

Posts: 10
Joined: 9/27/2013
Status: offline

First, I wish to say that I'm glad to see this comes to fruitation...Been having a blast!

Though there are still something confusing, particularly about missiles. Here are my observations so far:

First, the current, or shall I say, Harpoon-like system of anti-air pK calculation by (1-CM1)*(1-CM2)*...*(1-CMn)*(BasepK*DistancePenalty-SpeedPenalty-TargetAgility*0.1) felt a bit biased against low-tech missiles firing against low maneuverability targets, and newer missiles, such as AIM-9X or R-77 against highly agile targets, making them only marginally more effective when compared against previous generation ones like AIM-9M and R-27, and less noticeably making low-tech ones barely fit for service since most of them are unlikely to hit their targets, even if they are literally coming in dumb without any ECM, and even though the systems themselves were -presumably- being continuously improved over the years of their service....Though this is just a gut feeling, without any hard evidence.

A global increse in base pK to only take account of the missile's intrinsic inaccuracy and unreliability and an additional multiplier for the target's agility to reflect the missile's own maneuverability during endgame maneuvers, as well as a greater representation of older weapon system's susceptibility to modern ECMs, which -might- have had a much more pronounced and diversified effect in real world might help, or at least further differentiate things a bit. Of course, your mileage may vary.

Also, all aircrafts seemed to be evading every single missile coming at them with the same agility, regardless of any energy bleed-offs during previous evasions. I think this is mentioned in some other threads, and maybe could use some improvement later on.

Then there is an unusual feature and a potential bug, where missiles like R-77 could be manually steered by F3-waypoints inflight just like a wire-guided torpedo, and the UI controls will be locked to waypoint designation mode if the missile self-destructs with designation mode on, which could only be resolved by a save and a reload.

Any thoughts? Can't wait to see more post-v1 improvements!

Post #: 1

RE: Missiles, base pK, agility and degree of control - 9/27/2013 10:21:05 AM

ComDev

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline

Hi JWNoctis, thanks for your feedback

So... where to start.... Jakob, any chance you could explain the new PoK/PoH model that is being designed?

The F3 waypoint bug is on the to-do list and will be looked into

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Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to JWNoctis)

Post #: 2

RE: Missiles, base pK, agility and degree of control - 9/27/2013 11:05:54 AM

Jakob Wedman

Posts: 202
Joined: 3/20/2013
Status: offline

Thanks JWNoctis! These questions, along with some great ideas, were raised during beta test and we have been working with a new PoK/PoH model for some time (but not top priority

).

The idea is to use a non-linear logistic transformation of the variables that effects the PoK/PoH, like TargetAgility (and SpeedPenalty?) today, but also new like aspect, energy and loadout. The effects would then be added and the sum (X) would determine the final PoK/PoH with 1/(1+EXP(-X)).

If we had enough data of anti-air missile engagements when could easily estimate each effect with logistic regression but as we add more variables we will be forced to make assumptions and test until we have a model that works (better).

What do you think?

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Post #: 3

RE: Missiles, base pK, agility and degree of control - 9/27/2013 12:10:30 PM

JWNoctis

Posts: 10
Joined: 9/27/2013
Status: offline

Sounded like a good idea...And indeed, didn't realize about those parameters at first. Also that speed penalty is that -50% pK for high supersonic targets -- which sounds like something that will be modeled in another way in the new model, I guess!

This is awesome -- Thanks!

(in reply to Jakob Wedman)

Post #: 4

RE: Missiles, base pK, agility and degree of control - 9/27/2013 12:20:05 PM

smudge56

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
Status: offline

Ok what's pK?

(in reply to JWNoctis)

Post #: 5

RE: Missiles, base pK, agility and degree of control - 9/27/2013 12:22:13 PM

Maesphil74

Posts: 93
Joined: 4/10/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

Ok what's pK?

pK = probability of kill

(in reply to smudge56)

Post #: 6

RE: Missiles, base pK, agility and degree of control - 9/27/2013 1:15:21 PM

smudge56

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
Status: offline

Cheers that makes sense

(in reply to Maesphil74)

Post #: 7

RE: Missiles, base pK, agility and degree of control - 9/27/2013 9:35:43 PM

Tomcat84

Posts: 1952
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakob Wedman

Thanks JWNoctis! These questions, along with some great ideas, were raised during beta test and we have been working with a new PoK/PoH model for some time (but not top priority ).

The idea is to use a non-linear logistic transformation of the variables that effects the PoK/PoH, like TargetAgility (and SpeedPenalty?) today, but also new like aspect, energy and loadout. The effects would then be added and the sum (X) would determine the final PoK/PoH with 1/(1+EXP(-X)).

If we had enough data of anti-air missile engagements when could easily estimate each effect with logistic regression but as we add more variables we will be forced to make assumptions and test until we have a model that works (better).

What do you think?

Sounds very interesting. You may remember I brought up that in my opninio agility affects missile PH too much, so this sounds good.

Looking forward to testing this out when it arrives. I'm also interested to discuss all variables you are planning and their effects.

(in reply to Jakob Wedman)

Post #: 8