Air Tutorial

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Air Tutorial - 10/18/2013 10:35:18 PM

Panzerldr

Posts: 26
Joined: 10/18/2013
Status: offline

Hello All,
Just finished playing the basic air tutorial twice with two very different results. In the first tutorial I followed the steps that Primarchx presented in his videos and I managed to win loosing only 2 F14. On my second attempt it was an utter disaster, I managed to loose 4 F14's with two MIG's surviving. I think my issues was not waiting until the ambiguity numbers were better. It was fun and I've learned a lot watch the videos as well as reading Spelks tutorial.

Tanks
Andy

Post #: 1

RE: Air Tutorial - 10/19/2013 6:07:25 AM

dongonzo

Posts: 9
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline

I don't know if it's _really_ in keeping with the spirit of the scenario, but since there are apparently no neutral air [suggestion to author: add neutral air to scenario], you can change the ROE to engage non-hostile targets since it's a foregone conclusion that everything you see in the air on this scenario is hostile. With that in mind you can stagger F-14 launches in pairs with an AAW mission configured to ref-points just outside of hostile SAM site engagement range. As soon as they're off the runway they'll unleash the fury with Phoenix missiles and knock a couple down before closing in to engage with Sparrow and Sidewinder which will knock a few more down... most of the 'close' wave should be dead at this point, though you may have a single straggler chasing your Tomcats back to base.

While the first pair of 'cats is on their way out to engage with Sparrows [ie: Phoenix missiles have all been launched] get dat jammer up in the air-- I'm not positive it made a difference but I know as soon as the Tomcats report Winchester and start heading back the remaining Migs will try to engage them-- with very limited results... on my first attempt with this setup they collectively [all Migs] only got off 5 R-24Rs with zero hits. By the time the first pair of Tomcats are about... 1 minute or two out in their landing pattern the second group will be in the air and unleash the Phoenix barrage once again, close to engage with Sparrow and Sidewinder. Wash, rinse, repeat.

... again not sure if this is in keeping with the intent of the scenario, and it is borderline meta gaming, which is why I suggest some neuts somewhere nearby, so you can't just down everything by assuming it's all hostile. Though, if you don't want to change the ROE because you're too good for that you could just manually mark hostile anything that has you painted with a Fire Control, which would basically do the same thing.

Also semi related but in the AI department, the remaining Mig chose to chase my Tomcats back to base [right up to the point they ate Phoenix] rather than engage what was an undefended jammer target that was right next to it [I would estimate within heatseeker range]. Either way it was much closer than the escaping Tomcat, but he just kept chugging away on the Tomcat's tail... They might be a little overzealous once they've made up their mind so to speak. I cannot speak for anybody else, but I would have gone after the jammer over the winchester Tomcat.

Now if anyone has suggestions for blowing up the ground targets with zero losses, I'd love to hear it... I have a hard time getting all the A-7s back alive.

-DonGonzo

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< Message edited by dongonzo -- 10/19/2013 6:18:17 AM >

(in reply to Panzerldr)

Post #: 2

RE: Air Tutorial - 10/19/2013 2:38:18 PM

Panzerldr

Posts: 26
Joined: 10/18/2013
Status: offline

Dongonzo,

Some great advice and ideas there. I played it again last night. I launched the 2 pairs for F14 along parallel axis in an attempt to split the migs. I then launch a third pair up the middle which do any clean-up work. I then experimented with setting up missions using the mission editor; AEW, JAM, CAP, and SEAD. Now, I noticed with the SEAD package the aircraft flew the most direct route to target, they got the job done, but all the SEAD packages flew the identical route. SO, the AI doesn't do it for me here. I like to hit from multiple axis. I then brought in the various strike packages on routes that I defined coming in from various cardinal directions. In this second scenario, I lost a A7 on the SEAD mission hitting all the primary mission objectives.
I would also like to add some non-hostiles to the tutorial just to see what happens.

Thanks
Andy

(in reply to dongonzo)

Post #: 3

RE: Air Tutorial - 10/19/2013 4:09:54 PM

dongonzo

Posts: 9
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline

quote:

I like to hit from multiple axis.

I think aircraft will fly to an existing waypoint before engaging in a mission... so you could try getting the strike aircraft off the ground with no mission, assigning them a waypoint for navigation [say, 2 to the north, 2 to the west and 2 to the south] and while they're on their way to their respective waypoints assigning a mission to them for various strike packages. You could even have the strike packages ready to go, just with no aircraft assigned to them before takeoff-- simply edit the mission and add the respective groups once they're navigating in the right direction.

I'm fairly confident that's how it works...

(in reply to Panzerldr)

Post #: 4

RE: Air Tutorial - 10/19/2013 4:37:11 PM

Panzerldr

Posts: 26
Joined: 10/18/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dongonzo

quote:

I like to hit from multiple axis.

I think aircraft will fly to an existing waypoint before engaging in a mission... so you could try getting the strike aircraft off the ground with no mission, assigning them a waypoint for navigation [say, 2 to the north, 2 to the west and 2 to the south] and while they're on their way to their respective waypoints assigning a mission to them for various strike packages. You could even have the strike packages ready to go, just with no aircraft assigned to them before takeoff-- simply edit the mission and add the respective groups once they're navigating in the right direction.

I'm fairly confident that's how it works...

That's exactly how I do it. I guess what I should have said was that if you assign a flight directly from the airbase they fly direct to the target via straight line distance and engage. I monitored to see if they would come in low, pop up and attack. They simply took off, climbed straight to altitude and flew directly towards the target. I was most successful by plotting the waypoints, anchoring at the last waypoint outside the threat circles and then having them roll in on their perspective targets.

Thanks
Andy

(in reply to dongonzo)

Post #: 5

RE: Air Tutorial - 10/20/2013 8:06:17 PM

Panzerldr

Posts: 26
Joined: 10/18/2013
Status: offline

Hello All,
The results below are the best that I have managed so far. Prior to launching the scenario I set up various form-up points around the target area for SEAD, and the various strike packages for the runway, fuel farm, missile assembly building and the industrial site. In this scenario I started by launching the pairs of F14 to deal with any inbound air threats. I had a third pair launched after I determined what the enemy air threat was up to. I then brought them down in between the first two pair. This confused the enemy, you could see q pair split to attack the third pair but it was too late and missiles were inbound taking out the majority of the aircraft the survivors were taken out by a few sparrows. As soon as air dominance was assured I launched the following packages to pre-determined patrol areas. AEW to the North for Fallon, Jammer to the Southwest, and Tanker to the Northeast.
Once the support aircraft were up and in their respective areas I launched the SEAD packages to their various form-up points. Map 1 shows the form-up points, I hit the radar�s and sam sites from various compass points which was very successful. I coordinated their strikes when the EAB-6 Prowler was jamming the radars. This worked out well, but I still lost some aircraft. I then launched the various packages to their respective form-up positions. Once all packages arrived on station I launched them at their respective targets which was fairly successful as seen in map 2.
I played this tutorial three times and this is my best outcome. It taught me a lot about the key commands and various menus.

SIDE: CVW-15
===========================================================
LOSSES:
-------------------------------
4x A-7E Corsair II
1x A-6E Intruder
EXPENDITURES:
------------------
8x AIM-54A Phoenix
4x AIM-7F Sparrow III
17x AGM-45B Shrike [ARM]
11x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
8x AGM-62B Walleye II ER/DL
148x Mk82 500lb LDGP
16x GBU-10E/B Paveway II LGB [Mk84]
SIDE: Red Side
===========================================================
LOSSES:
-------------------------------
4x MiG-23ML Flogger G
4x MiG-21bis Fishbed N
4x Vehicle (Spoon Rest C [P-12])
12x SA-2f Guideline Mod 1/2 Single Rail
9x SA-7a Grail [9K32 Strela-2] MANPADS
3x Vehicle (Fan Song F [RSNA-75M])
5x Vehicle (Flat Face B [P-19])
2x SA-3c Goa Quad Rail
1x Vehicle (Low Blow [SNR-125])
7x Building (Large)
3x A/C Hardened Aircraft Shelter (1x Medium Aircraft)
2x A/C Tarmac Space (4x Very Large Aircraft)
3x SA-6b Gainful [2P25] TEL
6x SA-6a Gainful [2P25] TEL
2x Vehicle (Straight Flush [1S91])
2x Vehicle (Fire Dome [9S35])
EXPENDITURES:
------------------
4x AA-7 Apex C [R-24R, SARH]
8x SA-2f Guideline Mod 1 [S-75M2 Volkhov, 5YA23 / V-759]
8x SA-6b Gainful [9M336]
9x SA-6a Gainful [9M336]
28x SA-3c Goa [5V27D, V-601PD]

I would post images but I say's I'm not allowed to.

(in reply to Panzerldr)

Post #: 6