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On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ?

 
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On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/23/2013 3:54:44 PM   
Furbet


Posts: 95
Joined: 10/23/2013
Status: offline 		So 50 copies of this are on Sale tomorrow at Essen - how much is it selling for ?



< Message edited by Subeto -- 10/23/2013 4:22:38 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/23/2013 5:18:44 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Subeto

So 50 copies of this are on Sale tomorrow at Essen - how much is it selling for ?





If this is true then the NDA will expire on July 24, 2014.

_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

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RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/23/2013 5:41:37 PM   
Furbet


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Joined: 10/23/2013
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Well it's announced by Matrix staff in "World in Flame developer interviewed on The Wargamer" post above so I hope it's true.....

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RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/23/2013 7:06:31 PM   
michaelbaldur


Posts: 4774
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: Subeto

So 50 copies of this are on Sale tomorrow at Essen - how much is it selling for ?





If this is true then the NDA will expire on July 24, 2014.


not for the people, who continue on the project after the release

_____________________________

the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 4
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/23/2013 9:09:17 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: Subeto

So 50 copies of this are on Sale tomorrow at Essen - how much is it selling for ?





If this is true then the NDA will expire on July 24, 2014.


not for the people, who continue on the project after the release

However, if I get my free copy saturday and buy another one for a good friend of my, I don't think I'm going to get problems with the NDA if I put the price in here at that point. If it's on the market, than the price is set, isn't it...

_____________________________

Peter

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RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/23/2013 9:37:32 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
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Status: offline 		we knew you'd come through for us, being only 3 hexes away

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RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 12:48:16 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 3065
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From: Southern Missouri
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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

we knew you'd come through for us, being only 3 hexes away



Lol. Awesome.

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**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

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Post #: 7
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 1:32:05 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		It would make sense for Matrix to hold of setting the final price until they see the results of the Essen "Early Access Beta" price. If those 50 copies go in the first two hours then add another $30 to the final price for the rest of us. If they are left with 47 copies at the end of Essen then take $30 off the final price.

I'm not saying they would do this, merely that it makes good economic sense to do so.

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

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Post #: 8
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 1:18:51 PM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		Hi guys - the game is on sale at Essen for early access!

To give you an idea of pricing we are selling the PC Game, 3 Hardback books and the 21 x 9 foot map in a package for just €150 at Essen.

This is discounted on the final price but indicative of it. If you think about the cost of a new hard backed game book - usually ~$40 each plus the cost of a printed map at that size - At least $100 and probably up to $400, the value for money on the physical part of the game is unbelievable. The physical items alone could have been valued at $200-$400.

Then add in that you are getting the PC game too and I think you'll agree this is an amazing amount of value for money!

_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

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Post #: 9
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 2:12:29 PM   
shaddock

 

Posts: 192
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Status: offline 		n


< Message edited by shaddock -- 10/24/2013 2:18:44 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 2:45:16 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		Wow, I posted that in my Facebook, I will comment the results...

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Post #: 11
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 3:12:25 PM   
CrusssDaddy

 

Posts: 330
Joined: 8/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Hi guys - the game is on sale at Essen for early access!

To give you an idea of pricing we are selling the PC Game, 3 Hardback books and the 21 x 9 foot map in a package for just €150 at Essen.

This is discounted on the final price but indicative of it. If you think about the cost of a new hard backed game book - usually ~$40 each plus the cost of a printed map at that size - At least $100 and probably up to $400, the value for money on the physical part of the game is unbelievable. The physical items alone could have been valued at $200-$400.

Then add in that you are getting the PC game too and I think you'll agree this is an amazing amount of value for money!


I picture the 21' x 9' map as a reverse Spinal Tap scenario, like you guys meant inches and then this thing shows up from the manufacturer and everyone's like "Are you an idiot? WE MEANT INCHES!!! WTF is anyone going to do with a 21-foot f***ing map?!?!?!?"

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 12
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 4:10:02 PM   
shaddock

 

Posts: 192
Joined: 9/18/2013
Status: offline 		First I love maps, so this will be bought just because the map is beautiful. Second the large maps will help provide a way to make strategic decisions. It might seem strange, but I like to look at the big picture and I can't do that on any monitor I can afford. Third the maps will provide a base for terrain, for a much larger map I'm making, for a different game. Also I am not limited to space. Every persons situation is different, so what works for me may not work for anyone else.

P.S. oh yeah, there's a game included with the map too...

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save the carrots; eat a vegan!

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Post #: 13
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 4:17:05 PM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		Some people will mount it on a steel sheet and put it on a wall (or even wrap around a cylinder). Then stick magnets to the unit counters and play WiF on it. It's been done with the boardgame maps.

Cheers, Neilster





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Neilster -- 10/24/2013 4:22:25 PM >

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Post #: 14
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 4:39:20 PM   
gridley

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 10/2/2006
From: Caledon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Hi guys - the game is on sale at Essen for early access!

To give you an idea of pricing we are selling the PC Game, 3 Hardback books and the 21 x 9 foot map in a package for just €150 at Essen.

This is discounted on the final price but indicative of it. If you think about the cost of a new hard backed game book - usually ~$40 each plus the cost of a printed map at that size - At least $100 and probably up to $400, the value for money on the physical part of the game is unbelievable. The physical items alone could have been valued at $200-$400.

Then add in that you are getting the PC game too and I think you'll agree this is an amazing amount of value for money!


I know you probably didn't mean anything by your post...but please show us a little bit of respect.

Those of us who have been following and waiting for the release of MWiF are buying it for one reason and one reason only. Steve has created the digital version of,what we feel, is the best WWII grand strategy game ever made. I don't mean to put words in other peoples mouths, but I doubt many will say they are buying this because of the pretty "physical" aspects of the purchase, you place so much value on. In fact many would probably vote to have the game $200-$400 cheaper and have it shipped in a garbage bag with just a digital version of the rules and no map...

Anyway, most of us will pay the price, I'm sure you are pricing some out of the market, but most of us will pay.

Trying to "sell" us, with what to me rang of used car salesman tactics, is not necessary and almost offensive.

Like I said, I'm sure you didn't mean to sound the way it came across...at least to me.

Congrats, and I hope this game is a success for you.

< Message edited by gridley -- 10/24/2013 4:47:31 PM >

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 15
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 5:31:27 PM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy


I picture the 21' x 9' map as a reverse Spinal Tap scenario, like you guys meant inches and then this thing shows up from the manufacturer and everyone's like "Are you an idiot? WE MEANT INCHES!!! WTF is anyone going to do with a 21-foot f***ing map?!?!?!?"



You'd be surprised! The map is so big it comes in around 24 sections from memory so you can use bits of it or if you have room the entire thing. You can get this magnetized paint these days and you stick the map on top of it and magnetic counter holders and you have an entire wall you can play on, which is a lot easier than getting a huge steel plate. It works surprisingly well.


_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

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Post #: 16
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 6:01:34 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil


quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy


I picture the 21' x 9' map as a reverse Spinal Tap scenario, like you guys meant inches and then this thing shows up from the manufacturer and everyone's like "Are you an idiot? WE MEANT INCHES!!! WTF is anyone going to do with a 21-foot f***ing map?!?!?!?"



You'd be surprised! The map is so big it comes in around 24 sections from memory so you can use bits of it or if you have room the entire thing. You can get this magnetized paint these days and you stick the map on top of it and magnetic counter holders and you have an entire wall you can play on, which is a lot easier than getting a huge steel plate. It works surprisingly well.


Sorry Iain this map should be sold seperately I have no need of it but that is just me.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 10/24/2013 7:43:06 PM >

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 17
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 6:29:32 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		too many threads on all this right now.

aside from forcing people to own the maps on paper, I think the map was printed too early, and if anyone had known that was coming I think this would have been pointed out. putting the digital map in the hands of thousands of people is going to reveal scores of small improvements that would be easy to make, digitally. yes, we went through that process here already, pretty much, but with a very small group of people at any given point, who were frequently overruled on things in a top-down manner. that won't be the same things as many, many times more people looking at it.

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 18
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 6:33:39 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bo


Sorry Iain this map should be sold seperately I have no need of it but that is just me, the price of the map should be deducted from the main price no if's and's or but's.

Bo



here ya go Bo:



quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

The price at Essen includes the map which is an optional extra is half the cost, so halve the price when you think about the game alone.





from another thread

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 19
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 6:35:35 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		Hmmm. I don't think I want to buy the game with the map. To expensive for a map which we won't use anyhow. Is there also the possibility to buy the game without the map in Essen, and what would be the price in that case?

_____________________________

Peter

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Post #: 20
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 6:38:27 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		The maps are OPTIONAL


How many times does this need to be said?The cost of the game without the maps is about half of the price it is being sold at Essen.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 21
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 6:40:05 PM   
Bfgpaladin

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/21/2013
Status: offline 		Well I did the conversion of the €150 to USA dollars. That $207 dollars and some change. If I read the your statement the right way, your saying that price you quoted for Essen is cheaper then what where going to have to pay??? I'm sorry but there no way in HECK that your going to sell many copies of this game. I was thinking $100 top, I may have gone as high as $150 but I would have waited to see what the reviews where first and even then at the $150 price point its doubt full I would have bought right now. Again if I'm reading what you posted correctly that the price point is higher then $207, then you have doom this game before it began so many years ago. I be shock if you manage to sell 500 copies before the new year.

If the price can not be lowered due to expense of the physical items included then you all need to SELL digital copies of the game and manual. Also I recall Steve talking about how the game is 2G+. He mention a lot of it was the tutorial videos. Have those as stand alone downloads from main game or use Youtube for people to watch them. If the game is Price in the $100 range give or take 20 bucks ether way I think you have a LOT more sales. $150 is top and then I think your still hurting your sales selling it for so much. I have followed this game for 4+ years and hope Matrix you listen to your fans about this.

Steve you are the man for putting so much effort into this project. I just hope you get a ton of sales despite what I have posted and what ever the final price is. Thank you for the hard work.

Sign,
Brian

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Post #: 22
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 6:41:46 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		Half as much NOT twice as much. So around $125 USD WITHOUT the maps.

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Post #: 23
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 6:43:14 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

too many threads on all this right now.

aside from forcing people to own the maps on paper, I think the map was printed too early, and if anyone had known that was coming I think this would have been pointed out. putting the digital map in the hands of thousands of people is going to reveal scores of small improvements that would be easy to make, digitally. yes, we went through that process here already, pretty much, but with a very small group of people at any given point, who were frequently overruled on things in a top-down manner. that won't be the same things as many, many times more people looking at it.

Actually I am very comfortable with the map. It was worked on intensely for 6 years. Most of the places where differences of opinion existed were caused by needing to choose one terrain type for a single hex which in reality contains several different types of terrain (Burma and coastal hex terrain come to mind). For example, hex size also meant that Luxembourg is not shown on the map. But all of this is a function of the original World in Flames design decisions dating back to 1985.

There were numerous individuals from many countries who gave their advice on the terrain in their local regions. I did so for the New York City and Philadelphia area. Others did so for Scandinavia, China, Australia, parts of Africa, South America, the US West coast, and so on. Patrice, who coordinated and synthesized all of this information, did extensive research of rail lines too. In particular, he added Australian and Siberian rail lines based on maps from the war years.

There might be small improvements to the maps in the future, but I seriously doubt that there will be anything substantive that would affect game play.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 6:46:51 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		Pricing looks tough, but not too tough, IMHO. It's a lot of money, that's for sure...


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Peter

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Post #: 25
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 7:21:35 PM   
Bfgpaladin

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/21/2013
Status: offline 		$125 is something I think most of us that have been following the game could swing sense we are big fans. Not sure what it would do for people who have never played WIF before. Sorry about the knee jerk response earlier. Just threw me with the post about it and should have waited to make sure it was for that event only.

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Post #: 26
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 7:42:09 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo


Sorry Iain this map should be sold seperately I have no need of it but that is just me, the price of the map should be deducted from the main price no if's and's or but's.

Bo



here ya go Bo:



quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

The price at Essen includes the map which is an optional extra is half the cost, so halve the price when you think about the game alone.





from another thread

Ok read it wrong

Bo

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Post #: 27
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 7:44:44 PM   
Lascar


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/7/2000
Status: offline 		Without the map about 75 euros at the current exchange rate that comes to $103.52, say about $105. Not an unreasonable price for such a feature filled game (the definitive strategic level WW II game) that comes with 3 hard bound color manuals. Maybe the hardbound manuals are unnecessary but their inclusion does not push the asking price into the stratosphere. Sounds like a good value at that price, if $105 will indeed be the actual price on Nov. 7.

(in reply to Bfgpaladin)
Post #: 28
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 7:58:18 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Pricing looks tough, but not too tough, IMHO. It's a lot of money, that's for sure...




If you look at the ADG website where the board game is sold you'll see that they sell a Deluxe Game package which includes several other products bundled together.

That price is $199.

MWiF includes all those same elements and much more such as, and not limited to;

Rule enforcement
Unified map
Online play
Quick setup
No mess
In game helps
Hard bound rules
Searchable PDF
In game rules and charts
All of the global maps
Automated supply
Production planning interface
Tons of book keeping forms fully automated and integrated
Much easier and integrated pools
In game note making per unit
A lobby to meet players across the globe
Automated process for returning planes
Automated window showing eligible units for many phases
Weather displays and rules integrated into the system
Pbem will be added as an update
Multi monitor support that allows thousands of configurations for maps, forms, rules, helps etc.
Flyouts for hex displays


And many many more things. I know pricing and affordability are all relative, but everyone should consider how much is stuffed into this game. Had it been an untried system, then I might be wary of committing to such a product. But we're talking about a system that is tried and true and has already been refined and expanded upon through the decades with uncountable hours of play time.

Mo reb


_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

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Post #: 29
RE: On sale at Essen tomorrow - How Much ? - 10/24/2013 8:01:17 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

The Essen release is a special early access release. Since Harry Rowland would be at the show, we wanted to make sure to have some copies there so fans could get his signature and so that he could get a look at the physical product as well.

This release is very much about the physical product, in that we wanted to give WIF tabletop gamers the benefit of all the work done to bring WIF to the computer as well. Hence the hard-bound Rules as Coded, with all the clarifications and errata from Harry that we built into the game, as well as the first ever global playable same scale map for WIF. Whether you play the computer game or not, these are very cool. You of course also have the hard-bound two volume full color Player's Manual for the computer game and the DVD with the computer version of WIF for solitaire or online multiplayer play, but the whole package is intended to be a very unique and exceptional product that has both computer and tabletop value.

The maps are part of the Essen package, but for the full release in November they will be optional. You'll be able to purchase the three hard-bound volumes with DVD as one product and the maps as another. This is also intended to make it possible for WIF players who only want the map to order that or to order an extra copy of the computer game or an extra copy of the map without getting two of both. The three hardbound volumes + DVD will be at a lower price (about half) than the Essen package which includes the maps.

The maps are also in 24 sections, so while you may not have the space to assemble all 21 feet by 9 feet, you can certainly use the sections that are most useful to you within a more reasonable space.

Regards,

- Erik


< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 10/25/2013 4:07:42 AM >

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