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RE: Stealth - 11/4/2014 4:28:59 PM   
orca

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 11/6/2013
Status: offline 		Just checking to see if there was any clarification on the RCS issues previously reported. I did simple test scenario and an E-2 detected a 7m civilian small boat, a zumwalt, and an ultra-large commercial container vessel at essentially the same range. So it seems like different detection ranges based on different RCS is not currently modeled (or at least working).

(in reply to IWS)
Post #: 31
RE: Stealth - 11/4/2014 4:47:43 PM   
Dutchie999


Posts: 117
Joined: 10/8/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: orca

Just checking to see if there was any clarification on the RCS issues previously reported. I did simple test scenario and an E-2 detected a 7m civilian small boat, a zumwalt, and an ultra-large commercial container vessel at essentially the same range. So it seems like different detection ranges based on different RCS is not currently modeled (or at least working).


It is modelled.

FRO SIDE REAR TOP
Civilian small boat
Radar, A-D Band (30-2000 MHz) 3.1 4.3 3.1 5.1
Radar, E-M Band (2-100 GHz) 3.1 4.3 3.1 5.1

Zumwalt
Radar, A-D Band (30-2000 MHz) 27.1 29.7 27.1 30.5
Radar, E-M Band (2-100 GHz) 17.1 19.7 17.1 20.5

Arleigh Burke Class
Radar, A-D Band (30-2000 MHz) 32.4 34.9 32.4 35.7
Radar, E-M Band (2-100 GHz) 32.4 34.9 32.4 35.7

Ultra large container vessel
Radar, A-D Band (30-2000 MHz) 45.2 48.1 45.2 48.9
Radar, E-M Band (2-100 GHz) 45.2 48.1 45.2 48.9

(in reply to orca)
Post #: 32
RE: Stealth - 11/4/2014 5:24:02 PM   
Tomcat84

 

Posts: 1952
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: orca

Just checking to see if there was any clarification on the RCS issues previously reported. I did simple test scenario and an E-2 detected a 7m civilian small boat, a zumwalt, and an ultra-large commercial container vessel at essentially the same range. So it seems like different detection ranges based on different RCS is not currently modeled (or at least working).



Could you post your sample scenario?

How high is the E-2 flying? Is it possible that they are all being detected at same range because the deciding factor is not RCS but simply the radar horizon for the E-2? Just a thought.

_____________________________

My Scenarios and Tutorials for Command

(Scenarios focus on air-warfare :) )

(in reply to orca)
Post #: 33
RE: Stealth - 11/4/2014 5:34:25 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Yeah the 'problem' is that the radar is extremely powerful and B-band so not too much affected bt stealth shaping. There is also a balance issue with powerful radars vs sea clutter that we are aware of and that will be looked into after Christmas.

Thanks

_____________________________



Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to Tomcat84)
Post #: 34
RE: Stealth - 11/4/2014 9:33:46 PM   
Dutchie999


Posts: 117
Joined: 10/8/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Yeah the 'problem' is that the radar is extremely powerful and B-band so not too much affected bt stealth shaping. There is also a balance issue with powerful radars vs sea clutter that we are aware of and that will be looked into after Christmas.

Thanks


Emsoy am I correct in assuming you build the radar-part of the database? I am wondering why you sanchwiched band A to D and E to M together and not put in every band on its own?

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 35
RE: Stealth - 11/5/2014 5:08:39 PM   
orca

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 11/6/2013
Status: offline 		I changed the "test". Instead of an E-2 I used a Seasprite helicopter which has a less powerful radar. The zumwalt and the extra large container ship were detected at exactly the same range as each other (but less that the range they were detected by the E-2). The 7m craft was detected at a shorter range. I know virtually nothing about what affects radar detection ranges but it doesn't seem right that a supposedly very stealthy ship (zumwalt) is detected at the same distance as a massive non stealthy ship.

I did another test with the seasprite coming from the side and the detection distances were exactly the same. I added another supposedly stealthy ship (la fayatte) which was also detected at the same range. Shouldn't front/side detection's be different?

I only could attach 1 pic so it's of the first scenario

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Dutchie999)
Post #: 36
RE: Stealth - 11/7/2014 10:45:18 AM   
Spookyashell

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 4/25/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

That sounds a bit strange. Are you sure you were detected by radar and not visually? Can you please post a save from just prior to being detected? Thanks!


Does it? It's not like stealth planes are totally invisible to radar. They are just harder to pick up.
From what I read if you have a triangle of radars they are quite effective at picking up stealth planes.

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 37
RE: Stealth - 11/8/2014 8:10:03 AM   
Dutchie999


Posts: 117
Joined: 10/8/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spookyashell


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

That sounds a bit strange. Are you sure you were detected by radar and not visually? Can you please post a save from just prior to being detected? Thanks!


Does it? It's not like stealth planes are totally invisible to radar. They are just harder to pick up.
From what I read if you have a triangle of radars they are quite effective at picking up stealth planes.


Depends on the airplane. Does it have all aspect stealth? Anyway picking up the airplane on radar is only part of it. Effectively illuminating it with a S/X radar is another thing.




< Message edited by Dutchie999 -- 11/8/2014 9:12:15 AM >

(in reply to Spookyashell)
Post #: 38
RE: Stealth - 11/8/2014 11:34:10 AM   
scottb613


Posts: 186
Joined: 8/9/2014
Status: offline 		Hi Folks,

Just an OBTW - just drove past the Zumwalt this morning as the sun was coming up - man - she's not a pretty ship...


Regards,
Scott

(in reply to Dutchie999)
Post #: 39
RE: Stealth - 11/8/2014 12:53:17 PM   
Dutchie999


Posts: 117
Joined: 10/8/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scottb613

Hi Folks,

Just an OBTW - just drove past the Zumwalt this morning as the sun was coming up - man - she's not a pretty ship...


Regards,
Scott


And not cheap either...

quote:

The Zumwalt was originally estimated to cost about $3.8 billion, but so much technology crammed on board that its cost has nearly doubled, and after the first three are built, production will stop. Including the exhaustive research and development required by each vessel to total cost jumps to $7 billion apiece.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-uss-zumwalt-ddg-1000-a-silver-bullet-of-stealth-2012-06


Could have easily bought three Arleigh Burke Class destroyers for that kind of money. 3x 96 VLS versus 1x 80 VLS

(in reply to scottb613)
Post #: 40
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