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Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 4:22:55 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

Good morning everyone-

*taking a swallow of freshly brewed coffee*

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to pose a question. If not, my apologies.

El Lobo and I have been good friends for over 45 years. I live in California and El Lobo (an ex patriot) lives in Thailand. A few months ago we both bought WITP AE. We plan to slug it out in a PBEM after we've both had time to learn the rules, read hundreds of pages of AARs, determine the answers to numerous questions, and study the complexities of the game. I intend to be the Allies and El Lobo intends to be the Japanese.

At this point in our learning curve, it appears to both of us, that in Scenario 1 the Japanese have no chance to actually win the war, and not much chance to even achieve a draw.

If we played PBEM WITP AE Scenario 2, considering neither of us have ever played this game before, might the Japanese have a chance of winning the war, and perhaps a good chance to achieve a draw?

We will be very interested to hear your opinions.

By the way, it has been great fun reading all of your AARs. I'm looking forward to getting to know all of you much better.

-Rio Bravo

< Message edited by Rio Bravo -- 10/30/2013 4:32:22 PM >

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

Post #: 1

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 5:53:33 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

Good morning everyone-

*taking a swallow of freshly brewed coffee*

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to pose a question. If not, my apologies.

El Lobo and I have been good friends for over 45 years. I live in California and El Lobo (an ex patriot) lives in Thailand. A few months ago we both bought WITP AE. We plan to slug it out in a PBEM after we've both had time to learn the rules, read hundreds of pages of AARs, determine the answers to numerous questions, and study the complexities of the game. I intend to be the Allies and El Lobo intends to be the Japanese.

At this point in our learning curve, it appears to both of us, that in Scenario 1 the Japanese have no chance to actually win the war, and not much chance to even achieve a draw.

If we played PBEM WITP AE Scenario 2, considering neither of us have ever played this game before, might the Japanese have a chance of winning the war, and perhaps a good chance to achieve a draw?

We will be very interested to hear your opinions.

By the way, it has been great fun reading all of your AARs. I'm looking forward to getting to know all of you much better.

-Rio Bravo

Welcome aboard!

It's been often said but bears repeating: one must distinguish between winning the war and winning the game. Winning the war is not defined in the game design. Winning the game is build into the bones of the design and is fully explained in the manual in the Victory Conditions chapter. To win the game one must play with an eye on VPs and the other factors in that chapter. Many players don't do this preferring to define their own criteria for satisfaction. If you do play for VPs and under the design it is very possible for Japan to win the game. The late war period will likely be challenging as the perimeter shrinks and the clock ticks on, but it can be done. The victory conditions are very well balanced to that end.

Remember: the Allies HAVE to win an auto-victory to win the game. Under the design there's no other way. Japan has to only not lose. If you adopt those mindsets you'll have a whale of a time.

Edit: to answer your scenario question #2 gives the Japanese certain starting advantages in the economy and the OOB. In exchange many Japanese players feel that the "pilot tax" later on is onerous. Certainly the early months will be easier in #2. It is a non-historical scenario though. If you want history play #1 with PDU OFF.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/30/2013 5:57:32 PM >

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 2

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 6:00:41 PM

tigercub

Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline

Hi Rio Bravo you will enjoy Scenario 2...it seems Bullwinkle has put you on the right Track ...I also live in Thailand...Chiang mai.

Tigercub

_____________________________

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 3

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 6:19:22 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

Bullwinkle-

Thanx for your imput.

I understand your comments regarding playing the game for VPs versus playing to achieve a different form of satisfaction.

Both of us are excited about entering the war and we both think we'll have a blast playing the game and enjoying everyone's comments on our AARs.

We were both just curious because it seems like the allies just get so strong and that the Japanese (as was the case historically) just get played out due to later years weak production.

Your comments are great though! Now El Lobo can take a look at your comments and Scenario 2 so he can decide what suits him best.

By the way, I've followed your AAR and still do. I'm current in reading it. Great fun. Thanx for providing so much through your AAR for everyone.

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 4

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 6:22:16 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

Tigercub-

Good meeting you Tigercub.

Thanx for your welcome and your reply.

Please ask Tokyo Rose to stop tempting my marines with promises of over-friendly geishas!

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to tigercub)

Post #: 5

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 6:36:59 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

Bullwinkle-

Thanx for your imput.

I understand your comments regarding playing the game for VPs versus playing to achieve a different form of satisfaction.

Both of us are excited about entering the war and we both think we'll have a blast playing the game and enjoying everyone's comments on our AARs.

We were both just curious because it seems like the allies just get so strong and that the Japanese (as was the case historically) just get played out due to later years weak production.

Your comments are great though! Now El Lobo can take a look at your comments and Scenario 2 so he can decide what suits him best.

By the way, I've followed your AAR and still do. I'm current in reading it. Great fun. Thanx for providing so much through your AAR for everyone.

You are very welcome. I've seen your name in the AAR. It's a Scenario #2 with about every negative an Allied player can volunteer for: no HRs, non-historic R&D, advanced weather OFF, dud torpedoes, PDU ON. Don't forget to consider the pros and cons of the other settings besides the scenario itself when beginning the game.

There are long and avid debates in the archives here about how Japan can win the game. Whether it's a function of this or that (too rapid/distant expansion, control of petroleum, certain air R&D paths, night bombing, etc, etc.) And combos of those and others. To my way of reading dozens of AARs Japan can win IF they accept they have to shrink, and they shrink in a controlled way at the right time so the ultimate smash by the Allies comes too late to achieve auto-vic. If I may let me recco jrcar's AAR as an example of how to do it. It seems to have been left behind just as the final phases were beginning, but what's there for 1944 is well worth a read by both you and your opponent.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 6

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 6:47:08 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

Hi mate,

May I recommend you to play the DBB Mod scenarios rather than the stock ones? I've migrated to DaBigBabes and I will never get back to stock again.

IMHO, another way to win the war as Japan is to crush the allied player's will to fight...which is very possible. I'm currently playing a game as Allies against a very competent jap opponent and be sure that there have been many moments of serious frustration for me...

WELCOME!

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 7

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 8:45:40 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

Submariner Moose-

We agreed about a month ago as you recommend regarding: No HRs, non-historic R&D, advanced weather OFF, dud torpedoes, and PDU ON."

I haven't read Recco or Jrcar's AARs, but will now. And, I'm sure that El Lobo will be very interested to read those two AARs to gain insight as to how the IJA can go at me.

Again, thanx for your time to respond and your experienced imput.

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 8

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 8:58:31 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

I also found jrcar's AAR extremely well done and an eye opener in terms of playing Japan. I echo Bullwinkle's thoughts.

Welcome aboard and I'm looking forward to following your PBEM and both AAR's.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 9

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 9:01:55 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

GreyJoy-

Very pleased to hear from you.

You are my hero for two reasons:

First, early on I took a look at the short distance between the Aleutians and Hokkaido, grinned, and said to myself; "I'll hit El Lobo's Saki storage on Hokkaido in mid '42." *laughing* Since then I've come to realize that idea would have been a disaster. Still, the massive invasion force you put together to invade Hokkaido was quite simply creative, damn impressive, and unique.

Secondly, like that pesky Moose, your AAR was loads of fun to read, following your ups and downs, and that backbone to get right back up to fight again. Yet, the main reason you are my hero is because as you waded through all the turmoil, you never once failed to remain polite, appreciative, and respectful toward those experienced players giving you sound advice (though at times contradictory advice...which makes sense as we all see things differently)and towards that nasty "Raider Rader" whom constantly kept unbelievable pressure on your allies!

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 10

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 9:06:55 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

SqzMyLemon-

Thanx for the welcome.

Ummmm, can I trade the Enterprise, the Repulse, two xAKs, and an APD for the gal sliding down the tree (points to the photo under your name)?

Your name is familiar as well. I think mainly from reading your posts under the Joel/Rader AARs.

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 11

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 9:10:55 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

Submariner Moose-

We agreed about a month ago as you recommend regarding: No HRs, non-historic R&D, advanced weather OFF, dud torpedoes, and PDU ON."

I haven't read Recco or Jrcar's AARs, but will now. And, I'm sure that El Lobo will be very interested to read those two AARs to gain insight as to how the IJA can go at me.

Again, thanx for your time to respond and your experienced imput.

Ah, English! It's just jrcar's. Recco was short for "recommendation."

Also, Obvert is in that 1945 phase which can be so "interesting" for Japan. His AA is stuffed full of detailed reports, screen-shots, statistics, and a lot of input from experienced Japan players.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/30/2013 9:12:36 PM >

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 12

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 9:15:58 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

Moose Mariner-

*whispers* Shhhhhhh, El Lobo will be reading all that to kick me around the Pacific!

*laughing*

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 13

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 9:18:36 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

GreyJoy-

Sorry, but I haven't a clue what DBB Mod scenarios is?

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 14

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/30/2013 9:21:02 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

tigercub-

El Lobo has lived in Thailand for I'd guess about seven years now. He visits me every year in the states and I seem to recall that he took a serious look at making his home in Chiang mai. You might want to touch base with him on that. I'm sure he'd enjoy hearing from you.

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 15

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/31/2013 5:33:56 AM

Feltan

Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline

Rio Bravo,

Welcome!

You and your friend will have fun. I am in a PBEM with someone I've known over 40 years. We've been at it over 5 years now and it is Feb '45. Not only will you learn the game, but your skill at "smack talking" will greatly improve (i.e., ".... don't think of it as the loss of a valuable carrier, think of it as a valuable artificial reef. You may suck as an admiral, but you have great promise as an environmental champion.").

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 16

RE: Introducing Myself - 10/31/2013 12:57:43 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feltan

Rio Bravo,

Welcome!

You and your friend will have fun. I am in a PBEM with someone I've known over 40 years. We've been at it over 5 years now and it is Feb '45. Not only will you learn the game, but your skill at "smack talking" will greatly improve (i.e., ".... don't think of it as the loss of a valuable carrier, think of it as a valuable artificial reef. You may suck as an admiral, but you have great promise as an environmental champion.").

Regards,
Feltan

Felton-

Thanx for the welcome.

And, for the insight. Improving my "Smack Talking" has been on my do list for years.

*laughing*

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Feltan)

Post #: 17

RE: Introducing Myself - 11/1/2013 2:08:11 AM

dr.hal

Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline

Well this is a lively exchange! Welcome to our new players. Just keep in mind that you don't have to stick to the historical script. I'm presently in a good game with someone who didn't bother with Pearl and hit Manila hard instead, which has certainly changed the nature of the game. So feel free to think outside the box... or forget the box altogether. Hal

_____________________________

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 18

RE: Introducing Myself - 11/1/2013 3:00:24 AM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Well this is a lively exchange! Welcome to our new players. Just keep in mind that you don't have to stick to the historical script. I'm presently in a good game with someone who didn't bother with Pearl and hit Manila hard instead, which has certainly changed the nature of the game. So feel free to think outside the box... or forget the box altogether. Hal

dr. hal-

Thanx for the welcome.

Initially, El Lobo thought he wanted to play a non-historical scenario, but he changed his mind. Nothing is engraved in gold...yet...so, he might change his mind again.

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to dr.hal)

Post #: 19

RE: Introducing Myself - 11/1/2013 4:13:43 AM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

Like GreyJoy, I'm a convert to the DBB mod system. DBB Scenario 30 is stock Scenario 2 that has been transferred over to the DBB mod. I know you are both going to be new to PBEM play, but you can go to this website linked below for a further explanation. One thing I would strongly recommend is the modified 'pwhex' files that you can install in your game regardless of which one you chose. This imposes a stacking limit on each hex. It eliminates the "Death Star" that each side can make make and just plow through your opponent. It forces both sides to use tactics more than brute force on land.

https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswitpae/

A useful tool is Tracker. It has been around for years and gets updated by two players. IMO, it is a "MUST" for playing Japan to assist in running the economy. It is helpful for the Allies, but not as much.

https://sites.google.com/site/witptracker/

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 11/1/2013 4:16:29 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 20

RE: Introducing Myself - 11/1/2013 5:16:31 AM

Cpt Sherwood

Posts: 837
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: A Very Nice Place in the USA
Status: offline

I would also like to recommend Combat Reporter, found here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2456864

_____________________________

�Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.� ― Lucius Annaeus Seneca

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 21

RE: Introducing Myself - 11/1/2013 10:38:34 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

I can only second the praise given for the DBB mod and DBB team.

Its a fantastic effort and I will never again be able to play the official unmodded game.

(in reply to Cpt Sherwood)

Post #: 22

RE: Introducing Myself - 11/1/2013 5:12:56 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

ny59giants-

Appreciate the information regarding the DBB mod system, that the DBB Scenario 30 is stock Scenario 2, that the modified 'pwhex' files impose "stacking limits", and that Tracker is a useful tool. Thanx for the links.

Seems that darn "Learning Curve" just got steeper!

But, I think the DBB Scenario 30 with the "pwhex" files is the way to go. So, I'll run this information and the links by El Lobo.

-Terry
L/Cpl U.S.M.C., Ret.

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 23

RE: Introducing Myself - 11/1/2013 5:15:19 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

Capt Sherwood-

Thanx for the link for the "Combat Reporter." I'll take a look at that link too.

I'm going to have to hire a secretary to keep everything organized for me. Maybe she can call your secretary and we can do lunch one day.

*chuckling*

-Terry
L/Cpl. U.S.M.C., Ret.

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 24

RE: Introducing Myself - 11/1/2013 5:19:19 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

JocMeister-

Thanx for your imput and recommendation regarding the DBB mod.

With the DBB Scenario 30, is the initial setup the same? I ask because so far I've been looking at the map, asset placements, and reinforcement schedules for the purposes of planning that horrendous first turn setup. The entire home is covered with sticky notes.

-Terry
L/Cpl. U.S.M.C., Ret.

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 25

RE: Introducing Myself - 11/1/2013 7:21:24 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

RB - Shoot me your email address via PM and I'll increase the amount of paper in you home by giving you "information overload" by forwarding you some notes that I've created and/or done by 'copy & paste' from this forum. As an example for both sides, I have a Word document from a post by one of DBB's developers, Symon/JWE (John), that covers the different type of engineers. You have construction, combat, shore party, and some that can do multiple jobs. I have another that list the characteristics your Leaders should prioritize depending on what they are leading (air, ships, land). You can have crappy leaders and they will make sure your combat is lousy. Lots of little things we have all learned here and will pass on to you.

Slightly OT - You need to make sure you have the latest official patch and then get the latest Beta (1123s). So many enhancements to make the game better.

_____________________________

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 26

RE: Introducing Myself - 11/1/2013 8:30:14 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

Late to this thread, but I recommend Scenario 2 for a beginning IJ player as I'm not too far removed from that newbie state myself. The "pilot tax" is higher even in the beginning and gets really bad later, but starting Japan as Scen 2 with the extra toys (ships, LCUs, some air units? mostly the LCUs and extra DDs) as well as the extra small stockpiles of Supply/Fuel at forward places like Cam Ranh Bay and Truk... that all makes the pilot tax worth it.

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 27

RE: Introducing Myself - 11/2/2013 2:52:20 AM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

ny59giants-

Well, being an Eagles fan it makes it kinda tough writing to you and having to put that "nygiants" in there all the time.

I'd send you a pm, but for some reason I can't send a pm here. So, I'll just give you my email here: oneoltgoatroper@yahoo.com

I appreciate all the help you're offering to give me. I'm sure the more I can pay attention to details (like Leadership priorities) and learn how to properly do things to improve Leadership, pilot training, device replacements, etc.; the stronger the allies can become.

For example: I notice many ground units (particularly in China), are low on support. I'm not exactly sure how to get more support troops for them...I think maybe it has something to do with Base Forces? But, not sure.

Anyways, lots of questions and so many aircraft. *laughing*

Thanx for all your help!

-Terry
L/Cpl., U.S.M.C.; Ret.

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 28

RE: Introducing Myself - 11/2/2013 2:56:55 AM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

Lokasenna-

Ah, good. That's what I was thinking that Scenario 2 would help out El Lobo a bit more thereby hopefully giving us a closer match.

I've let him let El Lobo about this thread. I'm sure he'll be reviewing all the comments here soon and then he can decide which scenario he wants to play. He'll no doubt pick scenario 2 based on all the good imput here from skilled and experienced players.

I'm positive that El Lobo will also appreciate all the help, information, and advice all of you have posted in this thread.

Thanx!

-Terry
L/Cpl., U.S.M.C.; Ret.

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 29

RE: Introducing Myself - 11/2/2013 3:17:43 AM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

Just click on my user name, NY59Giants, and that allows a private PM via the forum. I'm sending you stuff now. Warm up your printer.

OT - Cribtop is a Cowboys fan AND a lawyer.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 11/2/2013 3:19:04 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 30

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Introducing Myself