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RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no MrKane please

 
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RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/26/2014 9:55:52 AM   
Spidery

 

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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery
I've been having problems with bombardments on the Java North Coast. I have a CA task force 7 hexes away, set to full speed, home base somewhere like Billiton but the force bombards during the night but is still there in the day - latest one didn't even bombard.



I have had many problems here too. I think the captains' look at risk reward, enemy plane strength, anticipated fuel usage and current reserves, their threat tolerance, aggressiveness, and probably a host of other things too.

It is frustrating...but should happen just as much for the other side.


Very frustrating since it means I can't, in practice, protect the clear terrain on the North side of Java which means I will lose Java far earlier than I should.

Don't think it effects the Allies as much because offensive bombardments don't seem to have problems. It is defensive ones where the problem seems to occur. I suspect there is an issue with the threat assessment not really taking into account that there is an island between my forces and his. However, it is just another issue to work around.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1531
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/26/2014 5:11:22 PM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		[bombardment orders]
It isn't something simple like not having "Retirement" toggled?

or are you saying they move a certain distance then halt, not closing to the bombardment hex.
There probably is a different in bombarding a hex/base controlled by the enemy vs adding shells to a base defense you own. IIRC part of the checks about the task force's ability to scoot in - blow up stuff - and run away is that it is an enemy base and the threat of air attack.

-- good luck with the rascally Mr. Kane, I have been a silent lurker for some time.

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1532
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/26/2014 6:08:06 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Not sure what the problem with bombardments is. But I had to stop doing them within range of enemy bombers. More often then not (later half of the game) my TF would end up somewhere they were not supposed to be.

Only thing I can think of is that the "threat calculation" gets stuck in a loop or something.

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 1533
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/26/2014 7:23:28 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but by using Full Speed the TF ends up arriving and staying in hex during the day and bombards after being subject to possible air attacks.

As Allies, I have Rangoon and have 2 BB (bombardment) TFs going in for regular attacks at Tavoy (8 hexes away). Each TF is made of CLs with DDs and CAs with DDs. As long as system damage is not too great, they can move, bombard, and be back at Rangoon for lunch. They will move Full Speed to accomplish mission. Please note I'm not sure how movement works when you have the TF moving for more than one day.

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Post #: 1534
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/26/2014 7:42:20 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I have used full speed and done normal bombardments at night (I usually choose that when at 8-9 hex range). They have also refused to go in many times too.

Remain on Station, normal speed, will sometimes get me day bombardments. Not always.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1535
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/26/2014 10:52:10 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		I am a control freak and dont want any of my ships going where their mindless commanders *think* they should. So, I set nearly every convoy to direct route, absolute threat tolerance.

The times when I have had problems with bombardment convoys is when the enemy had superior air cover. I think Mr. Kane's lvl 9 airfield and air control is affecting your bombardments.

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1536
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/27/2014 11:11:17 AM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		They have all been retirement allowed, direct, absolute, sent to a destination rather than a patrol zone. The problem (with one exception) hasn't been that the bombardments fail to occur but rather the ships remain in the target hex - the exact opposite with what would be expected given a level 9 airbase 75-150 km away

(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 1537
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/27/2014 12:40:52 PM   
Mike McCreery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

They have all been retirement allowed, direct, absolute, sent to a destination rather than a patrol zone. The problem (with one exception) hasn't been that the bombardments fail to occur but rather the ships remain in the target hex - the exact opposite with what would be expected given a level 9 airbase 75-150 km away



Hm... Anything to burn up their ops points? Sub attacks, surface combats etc? That is my only other guess.

Otherwise it is just broken :P

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(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1538
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/27/2014 1:53:53 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
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From: Hampshire, UK
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August 12th

No night strikes.

Allied sweeps are met only by N1K1-J and trade 48 N1K1-J lost for 30 F6F-3 and 12 P-38G. 13 pilots lost but that includes 3 Aces

I-182 is damaged attacking a transport force heading for Java area.

A BB force heading for Cocos is attacked by Nells but an oversight means there wasn't supply available for torpedoes and they all miss with bombs.

Have evacuated the North coast of Java next to Tjilatjap, so Java is cut in half. Assume he will now attack either North or South to secure more bases. If I could use my cruisers I think I could hold him in the mountains or along the coast but as it is... Djokjakarta is at risk because of the danger of bombardments but at least the forts there are strong.

More enemy forces heading around the North West Cape - possibly for Mataram or that area.

(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 1539
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/27/2014 1:56:54 PM   
Spidery

 

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From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

They have all been retirement allowed, direct, absolute, sent to a destination rather than a patrol zone. The problem (with one exception) hasn't been that the bombardments fail to occur but rather the ships remain in the target hex - the exact opposite with what would be expected given a level 9 airbase 75-150 km away



Hm... Anything to burn up their ops points? Sub attacks, surface combats etc? That is my only other guess.

Otherwise it is just broken :P


No subs (he doesn't send subs into shallow water), no surface forces or mines on the North coast.

My guess is that they didn't use up another ammo, decided they could stay around, then noticed that there were a 1000 aircraft close by so decided not to bombard but forgot to move. It may be better to not come in close so only main gun ammo is used.

(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 1540
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/28/2014 10:36:10 AM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		August 13th 1943

The defenders of Shortlands starve to death and the base auto-shifts to the Allies.

The damaged CL Kinu is nearly at Woleai when she eats a torpedo, at 68/65/29/27 damage the situation looks poor.

Not much else happens, no air combats and only routine bombings. Moonlight is now 96% so not sure why he isn't launching night raids on my oil wells.

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1541
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/28/2014 10:48:38 AM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		Economics

My current fuel and oil stocks if they could all be used to run the current HI would be able to run that until about March 1945. I have 2000 production of fuel that is essentially secure until the Allies advance a lot more. I have about 8000 more that is in locations that are relatively safe at the moment but could easily be endangered.

A typical E boat on ASW consumes about 30 fuel per day. A sub on patrol may use 10 fuel per day.

Tankers probably use about 100 per day to keep the flows from Sakhalin and Fusan working.

xAK delivering resources probably another 260. So with 30 E boats on ASW, 50 subs on patrol and the necessary convoys the secure production just about covers matters and I need to have more stockpiles for evacuations and delivery of reinforcements and supply plus offensive use of assets.

Conclusion, if I lost all my oil production now I would still be able to retain supply and production into 1945

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1542
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/28/2014 5:28:12 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Okay I got to thinking about supply and fuel conservation. What are some techniques?

I assume you are comfortable with your HI levels and not think this is a problem?

Then: Check the build cue for merchant ships, and build those that have large starting amounts of fuel. Build them to a couple of days of completion, and stop them. Then you will have a late game source of fuel for your Navy available whenever you need them. Note, this only works if new ships start with free fuel! I assume they do, but I never checked for sure.


I take it you are still getting full Magwe production? Seems odd, somehow. I know that in my Downfall game b29s sometimes don't fly for whatever reason plus lots and lots stray: I like to see good bomber morale, very low plane fatigue, decent weather in target hex (sometimes that doesn't seem to matter), high detection level in target hex, plentiful supply in airbase before I will send the bombers in at night and even then most won't make a bombing run due to either straying or simply not flying. Oh, and you need a good HQa too.






(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1543
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/29/2014 11:37:29 AM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

Okay I got to thinking about supply and fuel conservation. What are some techniques?

I assume you are comfortable with your HI levels and not think this is a problem?

Then: Check the build cue for merchant ships, and build those that have large starting amounts of fuel. Build them to a couple of days of completion, and stop them. Then you will have a late game source of fuel for your Navy available whenever you need them. Note, this only works if new ships start with free fuel! I assume they do, but I never checked for sure.


Not sure this is a good idea, problem is that merchant points get wasted on barges. I have now turned off all merchant yard production and I think that gives me enough HI.

Happy with amount of HI given likely duration of game, not if it was likely to go to 1946.

Supply is just a question of avoiding discretionary spending:
1. Selective engineering efforts,
2. Units in open terrain in rest mode if not needing to build forts.
3. Avoid using drop tanks (is there a supply cost using them for transfer?)
4. Avoid flying unneeded recce or search
5. Only fly ASW when subs are in area
6. Minimise aircraft losses
7. Don't reform units or take replacements until they are needed
8. Try to avoid building "dead-weight" devices, light AAMG etc.
9. Let an air group be trashed before upgrading

You could get tricky and allow a base to starve for a while and then provide supply. As long as you don't allow it to get so bad they start taking device losses.

Fuel the main thing is to note that, contrary to the manual, most task forces do not expend fuel if they remain stationery and only expend for distance moved. Other than that, picking the best units for a job.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1544
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 10/29/2014 11:40:15 AM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		August 14th

Night strike against Palembang, I don't have enough fighters on night and the later raids are unopposed. He attacks at 10000 feet and the 100 AA seem fairly ineffective. 46 oil production lost. 9 Ki-43-IV gone for just a single B-24D downed by flak.

Fires on CL Kinu get worse.

Otherwise quiet.

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1545
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/3/2014 7:39:15 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		A minor hiatus over the weekend as my PC needed repairs

August 15th

I-173 is damaged by enemy planes off Java and is RTB.

I-29 is worked over by enemy ASW near Pearl and is RTB.

E W-12 is sunk by SS Grunion near Kendari. The second E I have lost at the same point.

Allied carrier planes close Djokjakarta airbase. I guess he wants to stop fort building.

Allied attack at Kavieng reduces forts and the writing is on the wall for the defenders.

N1K2-J to 3/44 (I am stopping here and moving the 2 factories over to the N1K5-J).

< Message edited by Spidery -- 11/3/2014 8:39:38 PM >

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1546
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/3/2014 7:40:46 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		August 16th

A few DD try to make a pick up from Kavieng but encounter Allied bombardment forces and retire with light damage to one DD. Allies bombard Kavieng and then capture it.

Nothing much else happens.

Saving 5000 fuel a day and a few supplies depending how much R&D succeeds, about 4000 minus the R&D work.

Scuttle CL Kinu as the fires are growing and the system damage is too far gone to fight them.

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1547
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/3/2014 8:04:57 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		Mitsubishi Ha-43 production.

This is needed for the Ki-83, Ki-&4-I, N1K5-J, J7W1, A7M2. All models I am researching and hope to have available starting mid 1944. I have 5 repaired size 50 factories and 2 more that were converted from other engine models a bit later produce 30 and are still repairing.

Under my original plans I expected to need to produce about 12000 of these engines which meant expanding factories to about size 650. However, with the expectation that the HI will be in problems earlier I think I shall cut the planned build to about 9500. So I could let the two factories that are already converted repair fully and would be producing about 500 a month in 6 months time. Or I can expand all 7 factories by 27, having to pay to expand for 5 of them, that would produce 470 a month starting in a month. The supply cost of the two approaches is about the same. Option A produces 2340 in the next 6 months and B produces 2725 which is 385 more so it takes 19 months for Option A to be more cost effective than Option B.

So if I expect to be producing engines after March 1945 I should follow Option A, if I think things will have collapsed by then, supply run out, and the Home Isles be rubble then I should follow Option B. Interesting demonstration of the need for forward planning...

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1548
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/3/2014 8:17:22 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Good to see you up and posting again! Missed reading you.

You are by no means out of it. Yes, you have gotten a nasty blow here in the SRA, but don't despair. I believe you still have full production of Magwe, and while it isn't Palembang it certainly helps. And supplies into 45 is no mean feat. And you were worried that you had more oil than you could refine at the HI.

You have some really strong fighters coming online very early, at least to my thinking, and I think you can find a flaw in Mr. Kanes offensives.




(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1549
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/4/2014 2:55:35 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
August 17th

Allies bomb Merak heavily sinking 3 ACM and an AMc, at least they didn't attack anywhere important.

Defending Troops, driven out of the base, at Kavieng are finished off.

B7A2 accelerated to 7/44

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1550
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/4/2014 3:01:03 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		Resource flows into the home isles are mostly okay.

Resources are dropping slowly because I have cut back and now only run from Hokkaido and Korea. Sakhalin resources are not being sent to Hokkaido to save on fuel and supply (no need for an ASW search). The resource shortfalls are such as to last 1100 days!

Oil is being shipped only from Fusan and the various small places such as Formosa, Hokkaido and Sakhalin. However, still not getting oil to flow into Fusan as well as I would like. Just about keeping level but not draining the pools in China and Burma.

I probably need to send some supply out but need to find time to review my defenses and work out where to send it.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1551
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/4/2014 3:10:34 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Good to see you up and posting again! Missed reading you.

You are by no means out of it. Yes, you have gotten a nasty blow here in the SRA, but don't despair. I believe you still have full production of Magwe, and while it isn't Palembang it certainly helps. And supplies into 45 is no mean feat. And you were worried that you had more oil than you could refine at the HI.

You have some really strong fighters coming online very early, at least to my thinking, and I think you can find a flaw in Mr. Kanes offensives.



Not out of it; of course not. Magwe is a bit of an Albatross, to protect against an overland invasion I need to keep about 10 to 12 divisions in Burma but those are needed to build the next line of defenses as I don't really start getting reinforcements until November. Magwe is at 271 oil, he made one early bombing attempt.

Just think that a stretch goal of survival to 1st September 1945 is more reasonable than planning to May 1946 and falling well short.

Never been worried about oil, just that processing fuel before the factories were destroyed could have been an issue.

There are a lot of handicaps that I hadn't realised existed. The biggest is that naval search is almost useless against an Allied player that uses concentration of force.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1552
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/4/2014 3:22:46 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		August 18th

Allies bomb Samarinda at night. I expected some CAP from Balikpapan to drift over but it didn't. However, extended range and severe storms hamper the bombers and only a single point of production is knocked out.

Allies sweep Soerabaja with 3 strikes of 25 Thunderbolts each. I have 98 N1K1-J and 30 Ki-43-IV on CAP. Results are okay: 34 N1K1-J and 7 Ki-43-IV traded for 17 P-47D2.

A6M5d-S to 3/44.

Allies are moving on Semarang.

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1553
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/4/2014 3:36:54 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery
There are a lot of handicaps that I hadn't realised existed. The biggest is that naval search is almost useless against an Allied player that uses concentration of force.


No argument there!

How do you like the Oscar IV? Flying him very low?



(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1554
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/4/2014 4:05:43 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

How do you like the Oscar IV? Flying him very low?


Not sure yet, not enough experience.

I think it is better than the Ki-44-IIc:
1. Better guns, more range, and not much loss in damage or accuracy.
2. Climbs slower so doesn't get separated from the N1K1-J as much.
3. Much better maneuver, particularly at altitude
4. Better transfer range
5. Also, a reasonable bomb load.

Usually flying at 5000 feet but not sure what altitude they engage at.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1555
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/4/2014 4:13:21 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

quote:

Okay I got to thinking about supply and fuel conservation. What are some techniques?

I assume you are comfortable with your HI levels and not think this is a problem?

Then: Check the build cue for merchant ships, and build those that have large starting amounts of fuel. Build them to a couple of days of completion, and stop them. Then you will have a late game source of fuel for your Navy available whenever you need them. Note, this only works if new ships start with free fuel! I assume they do, but I never checked for sure.


8. Try to avoid building "dead-weight" devices, light AAMG etc.



Care to expand on this? What other dead weight devices are there?

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1556
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/4/2014 5:06:38 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

Care to expand on this? What other dead weight devices are there?


Construction labour squads (if playing DBB), tractors, observor squads, all Thai troops (because they withdraw).

Also questionable, Mongolian Cavalry squad, IJA shipping engineer squads (DBB), (maybe also) 50mm krupp Mtn gun, Type 91 Armored Car, Vickers VI tank, Type 1 Halftrack.

Basically, would you, for the load cost, prefer a basic infantry squad?

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 1557
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/4/2014 8:33:53 PM   
MrBlizzard


Posts: 636
Joined: 4/16/2012
From: Italy
Status: offline 		It would be nice if you could post a map of Java situation for your readers

_____________________________

Blizzard

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1558
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/4/2014 10:13:00 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

quote:

How do you like the Oscar IV? Flying him very low?


Not sure yet, not enough experience.

I think it is better than the Ki-44-IIc:
1. Better guns, more range, and not much loss in damage or accuracy.
2. Climbs slower so doesn't get separated from the N1K1-J as much.
3. Much better maneuver, particularly at altitude
4. Better transfer range
5. Also, a reasonable bomb load.

Usually flying at 5000 feet but not sure what altitude they engage at.


Make sure the Oscar IV is your first choice for escorts. They have an insanely high cruise speed, and I have seen them sweep ahead of the bombers, perform a sweep and are still there escorting the bombers in. Very nice.




(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1559
RE: Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no Mr... - 11/5/2014 12:48:09 PM   
Spidery

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 10/6/2012
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline 		August 19th

Samarinda is hit again at night. Some KI-43-IIb engage. 10 points of oil production lost, 4 fighters lost, no Allied bombers downed. There is only 1 flak unit at Samarinda.

I-124 is lost off Java; first of the mine-layers to be lost.

Ki-84r to 9/44.

(in reply to Spidery)
Post #: 1560
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