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New to Japanese side. - 11/1/2013 3:15:57 PM

cplprice

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/8/2011
From: Chickamauga GA
Status: offline

I've played a number of times as the Allies but have been preparing to try the game as the Japanese. I have been reading and studying the various threads on how to handle Japan's economy. There are still a couple of questions that I have:

1.) In Tracker there is a TBO YTA column that is for aircraft being built and yet to arrive. This I believe is for reinforcement air units. Do I have to build the aircraft to fill these units or do they enter the game with their aircraft. If the latter is the case I could limit my production to adjust for these aircraft or if the former were the case I'd need to boost production to fill the units out. Which is it?

2.) Japanese reinforcement LCU's. A similar problem to question #1. Do I need squads and weapons in the pools to build these units or are these units "free" and in addition to my production?

Post #: 1

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/1/2013 4:33:11 PM

Numdydar

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Joined: 2/13/2004
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I can answer 2

Yes you need devices to fill in LCU that are destroyed and paid to come back or for any operation/combat losses. Devices are 'free' in the sense that you do not specificly produce them. Devices are placed in their pools and their 'costs' come from manpower and the armement pools. Manpower you have no control over, but armemnts you do. As long as your armement pool is positive, devices will automaticly be created based on data setup in the game (can be changed in the Editor). If your armement pool is low or 0, then the engine will build what it can and ignore the rest. Obviously you want your armement pool to stay above (say 2K) so that you can maximize production of your devices.

I hope this helps.

(in reply to cplprice)

Post #: 2

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/1/2013 4:40:15 PM

n01487477

Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cplprice

I've played a number of times as the Allies but have been preparing to try the game as the Japanese. I have been reading and studying the various threads on how to handle Japan's economy. There are still a couple of questions that I have:

Look also at Numdydar and my doc in my signature. I hope you enjoy the challenge ...

quote:

1.) In Tracker there is a TBO YTA column that is for aircraft being built and yet to arrive. This I believe is for reinforcement air units. Do I have to build the aircraft to fill these units or do they enter the game with their aircraft. If the latter is the case I could limit my production to adjust for these aircraft or if the former were the case I'd need to boost production to fill the units out. Which is it?

Total Build Out Yet to Arrive - is the number of planes needed to fill the groups. Some groups come with a few placeholder a/c but mostly you'll have to build what you need. There is also another column for upgrades you need too. I think I did a video of it, but maybe it is a little old now.

quote:

2.) Japanese reinforcement LCU's. A similar problem to question #1. Do I need squads and weapons in the pools to build these units or are these units "free" and in addition to my production?

A number of processes take place here & I'm speaking from memory. The TOE is determined by the editor, there is also a percentage that is given initially. When the lcu enters the game, arm, manpower & veh points are deducted and the unit is assembled. If the unit is not 100%, then the necessary devices will be created and HI is expended to place them in pool. Over time the will fill out.

If there isn't enough arm/veh points to cover the initial formation then the unit comes in at a smaller percent and HI is expended again.

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

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Post #: 3

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/1/2013 7:43:51 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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I believe it is 1/3 size if you don't have enough devices or armaments/vehicles/HI.

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Post #: 4

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/2/2013 1:01:12 AM

nashvillen

Posts: 3836
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
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Welcome to the light!

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Post #: 5

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/2/2013 1:21:33 AM

cplprice

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/8/2011
From: Chickamauga GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

Welcome to the light!

Haah, thank you. I'm just hoping I do enough research and prep to prevent it from being "lights out" too quickly. The more I've read up on it the more daunting it appears.

(in reply to nashvillen)

Post #: 6

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/2/2013 1:32:47 AM

cplprice

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/8/2011
From: Chickamauga GA
Status: offline

Numdydar, Damian and Lokasenna, than you for the info. Damian, I've read your econ doc a number of times and have it saved on my computer for reference. Excellent work. Tracker is a great tool and I've been using it for my pre-game planning. The CSV export feature is handy and has allowed me to use the data in Excel spreadsheets to help guesstimate the effects of certain decisions and aid in developing an operational plan. Once I start the game as Japan I am sure it will be invaluable.

(in reply to cplprice)

Post #: 7

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/2/2013 1:35:15 AM

n01487477

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cplprice

quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

Welcome to the light!

Haah, thank you. I'm just hoping I do enough research and prep to prevent it from being "lights out" too quickly. The more I've read up on it the more daunting it appears.

Actually, it is easier than one would think once you have initially set up your industry. Small steps / number changes. And then just a bit of tweaking once in a while with monitoring.

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to cplprice)

Post #: 8

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/2/2013 5:13:10 AM

Numdydar

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I got it so I only tweaked factories about once a month and when new types started producing. If you change too much at once, then it is harder to get things back into balance

So as Damian said small changes are best, let things run for a few weeks (not turns) and see what imapct the changes have had on the econemy.

You can check out my Primer as well if you have not looked at it already. It is MUCH better than Damians (just kidding Damian

). You can find it here

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3329605

(in reply to n01487477)

Post #: 9

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/2/2013 5:13:22 AM

nashvillen

Posts: 3836
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From: Christiana, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cplprice

quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

Welcome to the light!

Haah, thank you. I'm just hoping I do enough research and prep to prevent it from being "lights out" too quickly. The more I've read up on it the more daunting it appears.

I am not the one to give advice when you are recieving such from such experts on how to run Japan. My first two games with Japan I drove the Japanese economy into ruin in the first 9 months in the first one and in the second one, have wasted over 1m in supply with mistakes, which is causing me problems in August of 1945...

I do better each time, and that is what is so great about doing the Japanese. It is totally different from how the allied side plays and a great challenge.

_____________________________

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Post #: 10

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/2/2013 5:13:46 AM

nashvillen

Posts: 3836
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cplprice

Numdydar, Damian and Lokasenna, than you for the info. Damian, I've read your econ doc a number of times and have it saved on my computer for reference. Excellent work. Tracker is a great tool and I've been using it for my pre-game planning. The CSV export feature is handy and has allowed me to use the data in Excel spreadsheets to help guesstimate the effects of certain decisions and aid in developing an operational plan. Once I start the game as Japan I am sure it will be invaluable.

+1 on the .csv option!

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Post #: 11

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/2/2013 9:58:37 AM

Mike Solli

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Welcome to the dark side! My advice is to take it slow. Figure out how much supply you want to spend on facility upgrades/changes and the make a list of everything you want to do. Prioritize that list and don't exceed your spending budget. In a few months, see how your levels (HI, resources, oil, fuel, supply, etc.) and adjust accordingly. Once you get things in sync, you can review monthly or so. You have some 1600 turns. You do not have to do everything on 7 Dec 41.

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Created by the amazing Dixie

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Post #: 12

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/2/2013 10:16:04 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Welcome to the dark side! My advice is to take it slow. Figure out how much supply you want to spend on facility upgrades/changes and the make a list of everything you want to do. Prioritize that list and don't exceed your spending budget. In a few months, see how your levels (HI, resources, oil, fuel, supply, etc.) and adjust accordingly. Once you get things in sync, you can review monthly or so. You have some 1600 turns. You do not have to do everything on 7 Dec 41.

+1

Also, think in terms of your entire game goals from the beginning. If you know you want an aggressive AV attempt you should plan to make more airframes early, not bank as much HI, not plan as prudently for the future. If on the other hand you want to survive into the late game with some fighting ability, plan now for ALL of your future airframe and engine choices. I thought it was crazy when people suggested that in my first AAR, but they were absolutely correct. The more you look ahead and think through these things, the better.

A while back I created an "average" balanced look at fighter airframe production for Japan throughout the war. It's not necessarily based on what I would do for myself, but what might happen if a player wanted to build a lot of different airframes, didn't want to either front load or back load the economy. Not useful for everyone, but gives an idea of how things ramp up at least.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3359966

Good luck!

< Message edited by obvert -- 11/2/2013 10:17:52 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 13

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/2/2013 12:35:49 PM

mike scholl 1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cplprice

quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

Welcome to the light!

Haah, thank you. I'm just hoping I do enough research and prep to prevent it from being "lights out" too quickly. The more I've read up on it the more daunting it appears.

Not supposed to be "easy". Remember you are playing the side that historically got rather soundly stomped into the dirt.

(in reply to cplprice)

Post #: 14

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/2/2013 12:48:01 PM

Mike Solli

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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

Not supposed to be "easy". Remember you are playing the side that historically got rather soundly stomped into the dirt.

_____________________________

Created by the amazing Dixie

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Post #: 15

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/2/2013 2:17:01 PM

cplprice

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/8/2011
From: Chickamauga GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
You have some 1600 turns. You do not have to do everything on 7 Dec 41.

I appreciate all the advice. I really appreciate the quoted statement. It helps put things in perspective.

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 16

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/2/2013 2:44:35 PM

cplprice

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/8/2011
From: Chickamauga GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I got it so I only tweaked factories about once a month and when new types started producing. If you change too much at once, then it is harder to get things back into balance So as Damian said small changes are best, let things run for a few weeks (not turns) and see what imapct the changes have had on the econemy.

You can check out my Primer as well if you have not looked at it already. It is MUCH better than Damians (just kidding Damian ). You can find it here

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3329605

Good stuff! Thanks. I bumped it. I'm about a third of the way through it now and it is a great help.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 17

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/5/2013 11:00:44 AM

Dili

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Btw you can also save the first turn to reuse or keep improving it.

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Post #: 18

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/5/2013 1:47:58 PM

Numdydar

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The biggest issue for japan and the production system is that is takes a long time to see the effects your changes have on the economy. Unlike other games, like HoI 3 for example where you can make changes and see almost right away the impact, Japan has to wait months or even years to find out "uh oh, I should not have doen THAT back in '42" in '44

One thing you might want to try (I did not do it but wish I had) is make some changes to the production and then set the game to run continously for some time. While not an accurate picture, you could at least get a feel for how fragile Japan's balance really is.

Regardless, small monthly changes are much better than major cahnges. So bump up production on an airframe by 10 or 20 and see what happens to engine demand over the next month, etc.

Thanks for the kind words on the Primer. Just trying to get more people to try and play Japan

After playing Japan, the Allies seem so boring

(in reply to Dili)

Post #: 19

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/5/2013 7:28:47 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

The biggest issue for japan and the production system is that is takes a long time to see the effects your changes have on the economy. Unlike other games, like HoI 3 for example where you can make changes and see almost right away the impact, Japan has to wait months or even years to find out "uh oh, I should not have doen THAT back in '42" in '44

One thing you might want to try (I did not do it but wish I had) is make some changes to the production and then set the game to run continously for some time. While not an accurate picture, you could at least get a feel for how fragile Japan's balance really is.

Regardless, small monthly changes are much better than major cahnges. So bump up production on an airframe by 10 or 20 and see what happens to engine demand over the next month, etc.

Thanks for the kind words on the Primer. Just trying to get more people to try and play Japan After playing Japan, the Allies seem so boring

If you're into doing some basic math and planning, you can calculate forward with a fair degree of accuracy what effect changes in your air production or engine production will do to your respective pools. There is some randomness involved in production so you can't be exact, but it's close enough.

The numbers that confound my calculations are the armaments and vehicle points. I always just guesstimate these, as there are so many units and they each have to check for replacements...and it can be difficult to estimate when they will pull them in.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 20

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/6/2013 10:22:42 AM

Dili

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It depends also of you are in a war of attrition or not. Those that have - or are forced by the opponent -a very active game need much more increase of production and the potential for errors increase.

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Post #: 21

RE: New to Japanese side. - 11/6/2013 2:24:20 PM

Numdydar

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That is very ture. I had everything going well with my production until the Allies started attacking

Once they started overruning everything, my production got much simplier