Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Turn 22: 13th November 1941 - 19th November 1941

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: Turn 22: 13th November 1941 - 19th November 1941 Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Turn 22: 13th November 1941 - 19th November 1941 - 2/21/2014 3:33:28 PM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		No operative offensives anymore. Time just not enough to set them up with breakthroughs etc. As for pounding deliberate attacks just to whittle down Red Army strength, I would love to. Unfortunately his disengagement has robbed me of the opportunity. With snow just not enough mobility to get in, hammer out a deliberate attack and get out. I don't want to leave my units possibly exposed for counterattacks. North of Kaluga a couple of strikes may be possible. Aside from that I'll probably start pulling units (my 6 high morale infantry divisions if I. and XX. AK and selected panzer formations) into cities in the rear.

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 151
RE: Turn 22: 13th November 1941 - 19th November 1941 - 2/24/2014 2:51:29 PM   
Gabriel B.

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 6/24/2013
Status: offline 		Good leaders are the key in my view.
Failed admin/ combat checks is something you can ill aford during blizard turns.

Panzer commanders have generaly also good infantry skils, so it cost efective to give them some infantry divisions ,
while depriving less than stellar corps leaders of combat units.


(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 152
RE: Turn 22: 13th November 1941 - 19th November 1941 - 2/24/2014 2:58:04 PM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		Thanks for the advice. Last turn I already began switching out some leaders with low morale values. In terms of infantry skills the lowest ranked are 6.

(in reply to Gabriel B.)
Post #: 153
RE: Turn 22: 13th November 1941 - 19th November 1941 - 2/25/2014 6:51:06 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Very interesting AAR, your maps are wonderful and your comments very useful!

Good luck for the blizzard

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 154
RE: Turn 22: 13th November 1941 - 19th November 1941 - 2/25/2014 7:35:51 PM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		Thanks.

Right now I'm a bit delayed on the next turn due to work reasons. Guess tomorrow the next part of the AAR will be up and the last pre-blizzard turn done. I'm not really that confident going in, just too many Russians. Incredible how the Red Army blows up if you don't inflict 100.000 plus casualties a turn.

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 155
RE: Turn 22: 13th November 1941 - 19th November 1941 - 2/25/2014 7:50:55 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp

I'm not really that confident going in, just too many Russians. Incredible how the Red Army blows up if you don't inflict 100.000 plus casualties a turn.

That's true but reduced blizzatf gives a very exciting and fun winter 41/42. Nothing to see with "old blizzard"

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 156
RE: Turn 22: 13th November 1941 - 19th November 1941 - 2/26/2014 9:33:55 AM   
Gabriel B.

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 6/24/2013
Status: offline 		can you post the list of destroyed soviet formations ?



(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 157
RE: Turn 22: 13th November 1941 - 19th November 1941 - 2/26/2014 2:20:21 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp

I'm not really that confident going in, just too many Russians. Incredible how the Red Army blows up if you don't inflict 100.000 plus casualties a turn.


I've only played the AI, but yes, this is very discouraging. Even with the Reds just about totally destroyed, with the front past the Volga, a few mud turns will get their numbers back up miraculously. And it never works that way for the Germans!

Good luck with your winter preparations.

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 158
Turn 23: 20th November 1941 - 26th November 1941 - 3/1/2014 9:24:33 AM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		Turn 23: 20th November 1941 - 26th November 1941

In late November 1941 the signs for a Soviet winter offensive mounted and sent German frontline commanders in a heavy commotion. Despite Hitler's insistence on the Soviet buildup being a mirage, staff chief von Kluge ordered the army group commanders to deliver a report detailing Soviet buildups, anticipated offensives and planned German countermeasures by 25th November.

Army Group North

North of Moscow von Leeb was confidently looking ahead into December. Soviet troops facing the Finns and 16th Army were weak, while the positions were well fortified. 18th Army's lines were not as well secured, but von Küchler doubted his army would be a focus of a Russian winter offensive. Furthermore the location of a mobile corps at Rzhev meant that a breakthrough could be sealed off without too much damage.

Army Group Centre



The most concerning area of the front in late November was the area of von Bock's Army Group Centre, where German intelligence and reconnaissance made out large numbers of Soviet reserve units in the rear. Five full fronts, parts of an additional one and the troops of the Moscow Military District were facing Army Group Centre's three armies and three panzer groups. The biggest buildup of units occured in the Tula sector where prisoner interrogations revealed troops redirected from Leningrad front after the Valdai fell to German forces in October. Von Bock and his army commanders came to the conclusion that the biggest strike would probably occur here with 4th Army and 2nd Panzer Army being the recipient of it. Additionally major offensives were anticipated against 4th Panzer Group at Klin and 2nd Army near Livny.

To prepare for the imminent threat von Bock ordered various formations - first and foremost mobile divisions - to be pulled out of the front to serve as local and operational reserves. Of 4th Panzer Group's three armoured corps two were pulled into reserve positions at Rzhev and Volokolamsk with the remaining one backing up infantry positions at Klin. Von Manstein meanwhile pulled the two mobile corps of his 3rd Panzer Group into Kaluga and Mozhaysk. This luxury was not possible for Guderian's 2nd Panzer Group, which had to keep most of its fast divisions in the frontline to strengthen the infantry forces that were badly shaken by Soviet counterattacks the previous months. To serve as operational reserves the elite infantry formations of I. and XX. AK were also pulled out.

In terms of defensive preparations the German commanders were prepared to offer harsh resistance to every Soviet breakthrough attempt. Von Bock and his subordinates agreed that a preventive retreat was unnecessary and possibly dangerous to morale. [Note 1] Additionally rear area fortifications were prepared by 3rd Panzer Group stretching from Mozhaysk to Kaluga, while another defensive line was located between Orel and Kursk.

Army Group South



In the South von Rundstedt was less worried about Soviet prospects. Though Soviet buildups south of Voronezh had him and von Reichenau on high alert, the overall state of Army Group South was more optimistic by his estimations. The main thrusts was most likely to come against 6th Army's bulge with perhaps an attempt to separate it from Army Group Centre's 2nd Army. Additionally a major attack was probable against 17th Army's positions north of Voroshilovgrad.

To counter the threat von Reichenau proposed a retreat towards Oskol as soon as the Soviet offensive was launched, while the armies further south would hold their lines. To cover for eventualities von Kleist's 1st Panzer Group was split up. One corps each would be located at Kursk, Stary Oskol and Dybaltsevo.

More concerning than the situation on the mainland,however, was the front at the straits of Kerch where the Rumanians were exhausted. Three weak divisions were holding Kerch, while another corps as fortifying positions at Ak-Manay. Ciuperca was not confident of his troops ability to hold back a serious Soviet crossing attempt and therefore LIV. AK pulled two German divisions out of the frontline near Sevastopol and put them into reserve in Simferopol.

Other news

On 23rd November 1941 the commander of IV. AK von Schwedler suffered a heart attack while on an inspection tour. His replacement was Generalleutnant Kurt Herzog. Two days later Ion Antonescu gave up command of his army group to Iosif Iacobici to focus on the political leadership of his country. [Note 2]

[Note 1: North of Kaluga I trust my defenses and the terrain to eliminate the need for a runaway, south of Kaluga I don't have the terrain to run. 4th Army and 2nd Panzer Group will probably be badly mauled, but I don't think I can afford the Soviets to run into the open field west of the Oka all too fast.]

[Note 2: Antonescu was killed in action, but I find this pretty implausible.]

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 159
RE: Turn 23: 20th November 1941 - 26th November 1941 - 3/1/2014 9:29:52 AM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		And here are the destroyed formations for Gabriel:


(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 160
RE: Turn 23: 20th November 1941 - 26th November 1941 - 3/1/2014 11:17:22 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		We’ve agreed to open up our AARs as we’ve reached one of the natural breaks in the campaign, so these are my comments on issues that SigUp has identified. But before that, really should say, he’s been an excellent opponent. We both have odd working patterns and playing with someone who makes no demands for return speed is most appreciated. Its also been a game played in a great spirit – the email chat is always one of the fun aspects of PBEM.

Also have to say, his AAR is superbly written, it was a very easy informative read to go over.

Some comments (actually a few), but I’ll try not to raise things where the answer is in my own AAR (I’m assuming most regular readers are following both).

Evacuation Strategy:

As SigUp mentioned, I tended to emphasise everything but the HI. I probably got out too much of the specialist factories (for eg I’ve just evacuated all the Il-2 factories at Moscow). My losses were at Stalino (more of this below) and Kaluga. Beyond that I’ve only lost a few isolated armament factories.


Speed

So far my experience has been 2 campaigns vs the AI, a Barbarossa PBEM and a lot of both SP and PBEM on the various ‘roads to …’. So this is the first proper campaign. Even with our reduction to logistics, I got caught out several times by the sheer speed of the Germans, when well rested. Stalino was one instanance – probably the first time that SigUP cut loose rather than went for an army sized encirclement. The result was I got very little out of the Dombas cities, even if I did poke his over-stretched units pretty hard.

Chaos

Sort of related, a few turns/places, the Luga is a good eg, I thought things were under control. One turn of combat later and it was an utter shambles.

Pockets

As is clear, I mostly attacked into pockets. I had no illusion of anything escaping but obviously I was trying to make SigUp spend an extra turn digesting his recent gains. This is, of course, utterly different to the AI when you get routed out of pockets. In turn, of course, vs the AI, armaments are not too stressed, repairing all the returning shells is proving a huge burden for my already disrupted industry.

One thing I am not sure of is whether or not attacking in was a good idea. I guess any destroyed tanks = good but in an email SigUp said that mostly he had exhausted that particular Pzr Grp in securing the pocket so one turn more to clear it made little difference in terms of when they were ready again.

Rzhev

Of all the pockets this is the one I see as my biggest mistake. I knew it was coming but I was too keen on my level 3 forts (there and in the Valdai) to pull back. The result was another 150,000 prisoners (including some divisions with a few wins to their names) and, far worse, the Panzers reaching the Moskva-Volga canal. That is still my biggest worry for 1942.

Reduced settings

I’ve got no feel for the lower logistics setting so far. Its not really made any real difference (I’ll see it in the winter offensive). The lower morale does show. Around 41-43 is the morale point for the bulk of my rifle divisions and I also thing the returning units are taking at least one more turn to be battle ready (ie >40). Given the imposed morale problems in the summer of 1942 this is going to be interesting.


1942

Not got a clue. I think I am badly placed, not least with that lodgement north of Moscow. But then SigUp scarcely sounds optimistic in his emails.

I think on balance, he’s won 1941, what isn’t clear is if that is a game winning position.


_____________________________


(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 161
RE: Turn 23: 20th November 1941 - 26th November 1941 - 3/3/2014 7:33:18 AM   
Gabriel B.

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 6/24/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp

Two days later Ion Antonescu gave up command of his army group to Iosif Iacobici to focus on the political leadership of his country. [Note 2]

[Note 2: Antonescu was killed in action, but I find this pretty implausible.]

quote:

Iosif Iacobici


On a historical note ,Iacobici asked to be relived ,since he disagreed with Antonescu over the size of the romanian comitment for the 1942 campaign.

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 162
RE: Turn 23: 20th November 1941 - 26th November 1941 - 3/3/2014 8:01:51 AM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gabriel B.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp

Two days later Ion Antonescu gave up command of his army group to Iosif Iacobici to focus on the political leadership of his country. [Note 2]

[Note 2: Antonescu was killed in action, but I find this pretty implausible.]

quote:

Iosif Iacobici


On a historical note ,Iacobici asked to be relived ,since he disagreed with Antonescu over the size of the romanian comitment for the 1942 campaign.

Interesting. Well, here he got rewarded with the backwater post that is Army Group Antonescu. His main task will be the management of rail repairs...

(in reply to Gabriel B.)
Post #: 163
RE: Turn 23: 20th November 1941 - 26th November 1941 - 3/3/2014 8:23:38 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Hmm, I remember I have also gotten Antonescu killed in action! I thought it unlikely too. He seems pursued by a dark fate

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 164
RE: Turn 23: 20th November 1941 - 26th November 1941 - 3/3/2014 8:50:06 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Stuff the HQs with support units, that will make leaders safe. An empty HQ is a grave for leaders.

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 165
RE: Turn 23: 20th November 1941 - 26th November 1941 - 3/3/2014 9:43:39 AM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		Army Group Antonescu has 15 support units, although all but 3 are construction units away on rail repair. And it sits in cozy Nikolaev, far away from the front.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 166
RE: Turn 23: 20th November 1941 - 26th November 1941 - 3/3/2014 10:23:15 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Distance helps as well, but I don't know if units away on repair help to protect leaders or not.

< Message edited by morvael -- 3/3/2014 11:23:40 AM >

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 167
RE: Turn 23: 20th November 1941 - 26th November 1941 - 3/4/2014 6:07:56 AM   
Gabriel B.

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 6/24/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Hmm, I remember I have also gotten Antonescu killed in action! I thought it unlikely too. He seems pursued by a dark fate


Turn 2 for me , replaced also by Iacobici . I am starting to think it;s a coup d'état

< Message edited by Gabriel B. -- 3/4/2014 7:12:34 AM >

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 168
RE: Turn 23: 20th November 1941 - 26th November 1941 - 3/4/2014 6:30:35 AM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		This is getting suspicious. Perhaps we should ask morvael to check if there is a Rumanian coup d'état routine built into the engine.

(in reply to Gabriel B.)
Post #: 169
Monthly Report: November 1941 - 3/7/2014 12:27:10 PM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		Monthly Report: November 1941



In November temperature drop and snowfall ended the rasputitsa and restored mobility to the German forces. However, by the the combination of strong Soviet defenses and weaker German units meant that ambitious operations were impossible. Instead the German leaders concentrated their forces for one hammering blow against the Soviet positions around Kaluga which pointed threateningly into the plains between Kaluga and Bryansk. Led by the newly appointed commander of 3rd Panzer Group, Erich von Manstein, the German forces succeded in evicting the Soviets out of the city and secured an anchorpoint for the frontline.

Meanwhile the Soviets continued to mobilize forces and looked poised for a massive counterattack from Kalinin to the Sea of Azov. OKH was alarmed by this development and despite Hitler's insistence on them falling prey to a feint, ordered the frontline commanders to devise plans for a defensive conduct of operations. However, by month's end the freezing temperaturs completely overwhelmed the ill-prepared German forces, placing them in serious peril.

Losses

After a relatively calm October the resumption of fighting increased German losses to over 100.000 men. 28.779 soldiers were killed, while another 824 were reported to be missing. Gun losses were registered at 778, while AFV losses stood at 373. The Luftwaffe in those four weeks lost 29 fighters, 7 fighter bombers, 19 tactical bombers, 57 level bombers, as well as 75 reconnaissance aircraft and 11 transports.

Soviet losses in the same timespan dropped to a new low with only around 160.000 men. 35.208 Red Army soldiers were killed, while 9.507 were captured by German forces. 2.154 guns were reported as being destroyed, as were 585 tanks. The VVS lost 394 fighters and fighter bombers, 58 tactical bombers and 162 level bombers.

With the German offensive running dead in the last week of November it was apparent that Operation Barbarossa had failed. The ambitious goal of destroying the Red Army in a swift campaign fell way short and the Germans now had to prepare for a war of attition they weren't equipped to deal with. Especially the heavy losses would be difficult to replace. In five months of fighting the Wehrmacht and its allies lost close to 650.000 soldiers of which 196.541 were killed with another 3.926 missing. In terms of equipment losses 5.415 guns and 2.949 tanks were destroyed. The Luftwaffe on the other hand suffered moderate losses which were replaceable. 348 fighters, 89 fighter bombers, 226 tactical bombers and 517 level bombers were lost. In addition 437 reconnaissance and 79 transport aircraft didn't return from their mission.

The Soviets suffered devastating defeats from June to September, but their vast industry and reserves kept the Germans at bay. Over 2.8 million men were logged as casualties with 234.315 killed and 1.650.513 captured. Equipment losses were equally high with 38.088 guns, 15.769 AFVs and 107.118 vehicles. In total, 21 tank, 12 motorized, 109 rifle, 5 cavalry and 4 mountain divisions were obliterated by the German advance. Likewise the VVS also suffered atrocious losses without being destroyed. 6.416 fighters, 581 tactical bombers and 2.110 level bombers were downed.

Reserves

Afer reaching a high of 83.380 men in late October, German manpower reserves quickly dwindled in November. By December 1941 only 26.611 men remaind. Armaments reserves meanwhile held up better and stood at 168.893.

OOB

On 4th December 1941 the German forces in the East consisted of 3.445.662 men, 34.579 guns, 2.390 AFVs (1.871 in panzer divisions) and 3.362 aircraft. Opposing them were 5.556.293 Soviets with 47.874 guns, 3.623 AFVs and 7.226 aircraft.

Heeresgruppe Nord (v. Leeb)

16. Armee (Busch) - 204.721 men, 2.117 guns, 0 AFVs
II. AK (v. Brockdorff-Ahlefeldt) - 4 infantry divisions
X. AK (Hansen) - 4 infantry divisions
LI. AK (Reinhard) - 4 infantry divisions

18. Armee (v. Küchler) - 224.602 men, 2.457 guns, 0 AFVs
VI. AK (Laux) - 3 infantry divisions
XXVI. AK (Wodrig) - 3 infantry divisions
XXVIII. AK (v. Wiktorin) - 3 infantry divisions
L. AK (Lindemann) - 3 infantry divisions

4. Panzerarmee (Hoth) - 223.938 men, 2.262 guns, 724 AFVs
V. AK (Ruoff) - 3 infantry divisions
XXXX. AK (mot.) (Schaal) - 2 panzer divisions, 1 SS motorized brigade
XXXXI. AK (mot.) (Reinhardt) - 2 panzer divisions, 1 motorized division
LVI. AK (mot.) (Kirchner) - 1 panzer division, 1 motorized division, 1 SS division

Heeresgruppe Mitte (v. Bock)

2. Armee (v. Weichs) - 207.088 men, 2.284 guns, 32 AFVs
4. G.D.
8. SS-K.B.
XII. AK (Marcks) - 4 infantry divisions
XIII. AK (Angelis) - 3 infantry divisions
XXXV. AK (Kämpfe) - 4 infantry divisions

4. Armee (Heinrici) - 242.750 men, 2.926 guns, 26 AFVs
1. G.D.
VII. AK (Fahrmbacher) - 3 infantry divisions
IX. AK (Hell) - 3 infantry divisions
XXXXIII. AK (Rendulic) - 3 infantry divisions
LIII. AK (v. Tippelskirch) - 4 infantry divisions

9. Armee (Strauss) - 228.399 men, 2.531 guns, 55 AFVs
VIII. AK (Heitz) - 2 infantry divisions, 1 flieger division
XX. AK (Materna) - 3 infantry divisions
XXIII. AK (Stemmermann) - 3 infantry divisions
XXXXII. AK (Mieth) - 3 infantry divisions

2. Panzerarmee (Guderian) - 191.858 men, 2.025 guns, 521 AFVs
III. AK (mot.) (v. Mackensen) - 2 panzer divisions, 1 motorized division
XXIV. AK (mot.) (v. Schweppenburg) - 2 panzer divisions, 2 motorized divisions
XXXXVII. AK (mot.) (Lemelsen) - 2 panzer divisions, 1 motorized division

3. Panzerarmee (v. Manstein) - 246.570 men, 2.568 guns, 442 AFVs
I. AK (Model) - 3 infantry divisions
XXXVIII. AK (Strecker) - 3 infantry divisions
XXXIX. AK (mot.) (Schmidt) - 2 panzer divisions, 2 motorized divisions, 1 motorized brigade
LVII. AK (mot.) (v. Arnim) - 2 panzer divisions, 1 motorized division

Heeresgruppe Süd (v. Rundstedt)

6. Armee (v. Reichenau) - 253.252 men, 2.769 guns, 0 AFVs
XVII. AK (Schmidt) - 4 infantry divisions
XXIX. AK (v. Obstfelder) - 3 infantry divisions
XXXXIV. AK (v. d. Chevallerie) - 3 infantry divisions
LV. AK (Vierow) - 2 infantry divisions, 1 Slovakian division

11. Armee (v. Schobert) - 267.980 men, 2.694 guns, 21 AFVs
XI. AK (v. Kortzfleisch) - 3 infantry divisions
XXX. AK (v. Salmuth) - 2 infantry divisions, 1 airlanding division
XXXIV. AK (Hollidt) - 3 infantry divisions
LIV. AK (Hansen) - 3 infantry divisions

17. Armee (Hoepner) - 222.963 men, 2.519 guns, 21 AFVs
IV. AK (Herzog) - 4 infantry divisions
XXXXIX. GK (Kübler) - 4 infantry divisions
LII. AK (v. Briesen) - 4 infantry divisions

1. Panzerarmee (v. Kleist) - 201.253 men, 2.371 guns, 481 AFVs
XIV. AK (mot.) (v. Knobelsdorff) - 1 panzer division, 1 SS division, 1 SS motorized brigade, Großdeutschland, 1 Slovakian mobile division
XXXXVI. AK (mot.) (v. Vietinghoff) - 1 panzer division, 2 SS divisions
XXXXVIII. AK (mot). (Kempf) - 2 panzer divisions, 1 motorized division

Armata 3 (Dumitrescu) - 233.421 men, 2.083 guns, 105 AFVs
Corp. 1 (Ionescu) - 4 infantry divisions
Corp. 4 (Sanatescu) - 4 infantry divisions
Corp. de Munte (Avramescu) - 3 mountain brigades
Corp. de Cav. (Racovita) - 1 armoured division, 3 cavalry brigades

Armata 4 (Ciuperca) - 207.627 men, 1.712 guns, 4 AFVs
Corp. 2 (Macici) - 3 infantry divisions
Corp. 3 (Atanasiu) - 3 infantry divisions, 1 cavalry brigade
Corp. 5 (Levanti) - 3 infantry divisions
Corp. 11 (Constantinescu-Claps) - 1 infantry division, 2 infantry brigades

CSIR (Messe) - 2 infantry divisions, 1 cavalry division

Hungarians - 1 motorized brigades, 1 cavalry brigade

< Message edited by SigUp -- 3/7/2014 1:27:51 PM >

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 170
Blizzard - 4/2/2014 6:54:33 PM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		Due to my work commitments there hasn't been an update in a long time, but this period should be coming to an end, so no, the game is not dead.

Just had an opportunity to review the turn loki sent back, but the changes are not significant enough to warrent an AAR update. So I just review the 14 battles that were done, in regards to the question that was brought up quite some time ago, of how much a removal of the 1:1 = 2:1 rule would affect Soviet success during the blizzard.

Of course the sample size of 14 battles if fairly small, but nevertheless I think I can already say that the removal wouldn't affect the success significantly. From my perspective the most important aspect for the Soviets is the CV modification, and that won't get affected by the rule. Of those 14 battles (2 holds, 12 retreats) the average modification was 2.43 times. A couple of battles were swung by modifications in excess of 3 times. The 1:1 = 2:1 rule won the Soviets 4 battles. While this number looks high compared to 12 successful battles one has to remember that these attacks were all conducted on fortified German units. Once the Soviets manage to push into open field, they will be able to push away the German divisions at will using the modifications alone, at least in December and January.

In contrast a removal of the rule would in my opinion benefit gameplay, as it would prevent the most excessive battles. An example of excesses enabled by the rule is a battle near Naro-Fominsk. The initial situation was an attack by 6 Soviet divisions with slightly over 100.000 men and a combat value of 162. The German defenders consisted of 1 + 2/3 infantry divisions and a reacting panzer division with a CV of 519, in a level 2 fort. So in terms of unmodified CV the Soviets only matched 31% of the German one. After modifications, fort destruction etc. the German CV dropped to 308, which was still 1.9 times higher than the unmodified Soviet CV. However, the Soviet one jumped by 3 times to 491 for a ratio of 1.59:1 plus 1 for a final ratio of 2.59:1. I don't think such a result is really justifiable and extremely demoralising for a German player.

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 171
RE: Blizzard - 4/3/2014 1:45:42 AM   
jmarzian

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 3/27/2014
Status: offline 		Looking forward to reading more, this is an excellent AAR. TYVM and cheers to you both.

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 172
RE: Blizzard - 4/3/2014 8:50:49 AM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		Great AAR style. Wish you a good Blizzard.:) Your Armies seem to be in a good shape.

(in reply to jmarzian)
Post #: 173
RE: Blizzard - 4/10/2014 7:45:05 PM   
swkuh

 

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks to both players here; each deserve KUDOS for their excellent AARs...

As to player/gamer morale when dealing with 1:1::2:1, well Axis is expected to lose... sorry.

Any rule like this leads to other algorithms being questioned... and, let's hope for v2.0...

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 174
RE: Blizzard - 4/13/2014 2:36:01 AM   
Ike1947


Posts: 21
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I am a newbie to WitE and am reading both your and your opponent's AAR's. Very interesting, well-written and good maps. Thank you for increasing my interest in this game, as it reminds me strongly of the "monster" board games of the past, especially GDW's "Fire in the East", which I played until the counter were nearly illegible.

_____________________________

" ... it is only those who have never heard a shot, never heard the shriek and groans of the wounded and lacerated ... that cry aloud for more blood, more vengeance, more desolation"

(in reply to swkuh)
Post #: 175
Turn 25 - Turn 27: 4th December 1941 - 24th December 1941 - 5/21/2014 2:42:56 PM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		Turn 25 - Turn 27: 4th December 1941 - 24th December 1941


Soviet gains between 4th and 24th December 1941

As the German front commanders feared the beginning of December saw the launch of a massive counterattack by the resurgent Red Army. The kick-off was marked by the assault of the 52nd and 55th Army around Kalinin on the morning of the 4th December. Near Rogachevo and Dmitrov solid German fortifications were blasted aside by the weight of the Soviet forces and 162nd and 251st Infantry Divisions had to evacuate their position by the end of the week under heavy losses. The operations were accompanied by numerous aerial assaults courtesy of the VVS who enjoyed aerial superiority over Moscow for the first time due to the blizzard conditions grounding the majority of the Luftwaffe.

Two days later the positions of 87th Infantry Division at Istra was assaulted by 66.000 men of Kalinin Front's 21st Army. Luftwaffe support managed to stifle the Red Army for 48 hours before the German defenses finally began to crack and 21st Army recaptured Istra on 9th December 1941.

Around the same time the Soviet 20th and 33rd Army launched a massed attack against XXXVIII. AK's lines southeast of Mozhaysk. Not expecting an attack at this well fortified position the lines of the corps began to waver around 8th December, forcing von Manstein to allow the intervention of 19th Panzer Division to restore the situation. However, the damage was already done and two days later the Germans pulled back.



Between Kaluga and Kastornoe the Soviets launched a general offensive on 5th December 1941 and despite a setback at Plavsk - where a swift German counterattack displaced three Soviet divisions - managed to pierce the German lines in five spots. Further south 17th Army and the Rumanian 3rd Army also weren't spared a Russian offensive. On 6th December a surprise attack by 18th and 54th Army quickly gained ground against the IV. Rumanian Corps in Voroshilovgrad. Three days later the Rumanians were in open rout and lost over 7.000 men in the process. At Sverdlovsk, however, the rest of the Rumanian IV. Corps and the Rumanian I. Corps performed admirably and managed to hold their field fortifications against a three division attack launched by 61st Army.

After the initial shock wore off some German commanders were quick to react. Around Klin 4th Panzer Army's commander Hermann Hoth ordered all units to pull back to the Klin defensive line, which was designed to hold off the Soviets for at least the entirety of December. The prepared fortifications proved their worth this time when a massed strike by the Soviet 52nd Army was held off by the determined troops of 206th Infantry Division near Povarovo. Near Kaluga meanwhile von Manstein's 3rd Panzer Army had to take painful losses, as field fortifications to the east and northeast of the city were pierced by Soviet attacks between 12th and 17th December.

South of Kaluga 4th Army was still holding their initial lines, despite being the army that suffered the most during the previous months. Heinrici nevertheless warned that this was but the calm before the storm, as the Soviet 1st Shock Army had yet to committ the majority of its units into battle against 4th Army's exhausted and weakened divisions. The danger they faced was put on full display to the south of Tula, where the Soviets managed the first significant breakthrough of the winter campaign. Attacks by 24th and 32nd Army near Gorbachevo and a simultaneous offensive by elements of 19th, 34th and 43rd Army threatened to isolate 45th Infantry and 16th Motorised Division.


Situation on 18th December 1941

With Guderian and von Weichs knowing about von Bock's plan to disengage from the enemy south of Kaluga, motorised forces were scrambled to free up those two units. On 20th December elemets of XXIV. and XXXXVII. AK (mot.) began the relief operation. The northern Soviet prong consisting of three rifle divisions was caught unprepared as two motorised and an infantry division drove into its flanks, routing the divisions for a loss of over 4.000 men. At the same time the 2nd Cavalry Corps to the south was overwhelmed by three German divisions spearheaded by 17th Panzer Division and also routed by the evening of the 22nd December, enabling von Bock to give the order for a twenty mile pullback between Kaluga and Livny.

To the south of 2nd Army von Reichenau's 6th Army began to feel the Soviet pressure as its lines were getting pierced at a number of spots, causing von Reichenau to issue order Oskol - the retreat of 6th Army to the Oskol position which was backed up by XIV. AK (mot.). In the southeast of the Ukraine meanwhile, Soviet operations launched between 12th and 16th December further opened up cracks in the German lines. Dumitrescu and Hoepner were starting to get uncomfortable and called for panzer intervention which was granted on the 20th when 11th and 16th Panzer Division pushed back divisions of the Soviet 18th Army to give the infantry a little bit of breathing space.

In the week prior to Christmas the Soviets continued with their methodical approach. North of Khimki nine rifle divisions of 30th and 52nd Army managed to break 206th Infantry Division's positions and opened up the first gap in the Klin defensive line.



Meanwhile north of Kaluga Western Front's 13th Army pushed back 19th Panzer and 252nd Infantry Division for a ten miles' wide hole south of Maloyaroslavets. Although the road to the secondary defensive line at Medyn lay open, the Soviets were unable to capitalise on it due to the strong German presence north and south of the gap.

South of Kaluga the Red Army was busy catching up to the retreating German divisions, but still managed to land a couple of hard punches. Therefore what was supposed to be a silent night turned into a busy night when the German commanders were pondering how to maintain the integrity of their positions in the fields of Central Russia.

< Message edited by SigUp -- 5/21/2014 3:43:28 PM >

(in reply to Ike1947)
Post #: 176
Turn 28: 25th December 1941 - 31st December 1941 - 5/24/2014 10:19:59 AM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		Turn 28: 25th December 1941 - 31st December 1941



In the last December week the fighting in the Moscow region continued with unabated relentlessness. Since its pull-back to the Klin defensive line the newly renamed 4th Panzer Army had only faced minor Soviet attacks that were easily defeated. This period of rest, however, ended when the Soviet Northwest Front launched a general offensive on V. AK and XXIII. AK of 9th Army's position on 26th December. At the seam to 18th Army V. AK's well dug-in 35th and 106th Infanty Division - which hadn't faced an attack all month long - fell victim to a surprise strike courtesy of 22nd Army and 55th Army's six rifle divisions. Not accompanied by any significant aerial strike the lack of forewarning enabled the Soviets to quickly gain ground on the first two days of the offensive. By the time the Germans recovered from the shock the damage was done and corps leader Ruoff ordered the divisions to abandon their positions. At the same time seven other divisions of 52nd and 55th Army pushed back XXIII. AK's 102nd Infantry Division as well as XXXX. AK (mot.)'s 2nd SS Motorised Brigade.



While Hoth was disturbed by the relative ease of how the German divisions were beaten out of their solid field fortifications he still wasn't much concerned as his army still held strong positions to the edges of the breakthrough points, preventing the Soviets from capitalising on their successes.

Despite heavy Russian pressure the Germans were not ready to cave in and accept their fate. After Soviet successes near Kaluga prior to Christmas 3rd Panzer Army's commander von Manstein readied von Arnim's LVII. AK (mot.) for a counterattack to stabilise the German lines around the city. On 27th December the preparations were finished and south of Maloyaroslavets three German motorised divisions (12th Panzer, 18th Motorised and XXXIX. AK (mot.)'s 14th Motorised Division) moved against three Soviet divisions under command of 13th Army. Sitting out in the open the Soviets were an easy target for the more mobile German forces and only one day later they had to pull back to their original lines, losing over 3.300 men in the process.

Directly east of Kaluga the Germans had similar succes against the Russian 4th Army with a counterattack spearheaded by 20th Panzer and 20th Motorised Division, supported by another two infantry divisions. After breaking through the initial wave of Soviet troops 20th Panzer Division hit upon one of the remaining Soviet tank divisions, which possessed 237 AFVs. However, the superior maneuvering abilities of the Germans, as well as the intervention of the Luftwaffe routed the division which lost around 125 tanks in the process.

While the German counterattack was going on, however, the Soviets used this opportunity to break through 58th Infantry Division's fortified positions north of Maloyaroslavets. After successfully carving up the German front on 28th December sent 92nd Tank Brigade through the gap which managed to hit the now uncovered German rear area defensive line, causing the fortification workers to flee westward.

Around Orel meanwhile German prospects blackened, when Guderian and von Weichs underestimated the mobility of the newly formed cavalry corps in the snow. After successfully gaining space between them and the Soviet forces, the mobile elements of 34th and 50th Army re-established contact on 27th December. 31st Infantry Division - which was hanging back - became the first victim of the Soviet cavalry when it was easily outmaneuvered and pushed back. The next day another two cavarly corps under the banner of 50th Army attacked the positions of 45th and 183rd Infantry Division, again easily gaining ground on the hapless German units. The Soviet assault only came to a halt two days later, when a third cavalry corps of 50th Army failed to dislodge the retreating 183rd Infantry Division. Further to the south a fourth cavalry corps of 50th Army, as well as two corps under 34th Army took on the retreating 18th Panzer, 31st and 34th Infantry Division, pushing them over the Zusha after two days of heavy fighting. German losses were steep with 3.022 men and 32 tanks. The only success in that region came by 52nd Infantry and 4th Mountain Division which held off 6th and 7th Cavalry Corps, causing over 1.700 losses in the process. Upon hearing this Hitler, in a fit of rage, ordered Orel to be held at all costs. He was even about to dismiss von Weichs and Guderian when chief of staff von Kluge unexpectedly intervened and saved his old adversary Guderian.



South of Orel 6th Army continued the Oskol operation and retreated back over the Oskol, while XIV. AK (mot.) was covering its retreat by pounding exposed Soviet divisions. Stunned by this unexpected setback the Soviets avoided re-establishing contact with the German forces, who still held two Oskol bridgeheads at Stary and Novy Oskol.



Von Rundstedt and his staff at Army Group South's headquarter in Kremenchug weren't free of concerns, however. While the Germans and Rumanians were still holding more or less the same lines as at the beginning of the month, Soviet pressure began to force them to ponder retreat options. The main source of worries was a significant Soviet breakthrough between Lutugino and Sverdlovsk, where the Rumanian 1st and 2nd Infantry Division, supported by 1st Mountain Brigade, were badly beaten by a massed attack led by 54th and 61st Army. Losses were disturbingly high with nearly 7.000 men, opening up a 20 miles wide and 20 miles deep hole in the German lines. Facing this pressure von Rundstedt entrusted XXXXVIII. AK (mot.) with the planning of a counterattack. He and von Kluge agreed, it was still too early to evacuate Rostov without a fight.


(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 177
RE: Turn 28: 25th December 1941 - 31st December 1941 - 5/29/2014 6:30:36 PM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		A quick question, should I leave the He-111 H4 on the current version, upgrade them to H6, or just convert them all to Ju-88s now that a new version is available.

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 178
Monthly Report: December 1941 - 6/8/2014 9:24:53 PM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		Monthly Report: December 1941



Losses

The Soviet counteroffensive launched in December 1941 caused the German and allied forces to suffer their highest casualties for an entire month. In the span of four weeks frontline units registered the leaving of well over 325.000 men. Most of those losses, however, weren't of permanent nature. Aside from wounded in combat a large part of the casualties stemmed from frostbites due to the unexpectedly cold winter. In terms of fatal losses the Germans and their allies suffered their lowest for an entire month with 23.689 men. Additionally another 2.191 were captured by the Soviets. Equipment-wise Axis losses registered at 1.623 guns of all types and 319 AFVs. The Luftwaffe reported 31 fighters and fighter bombers lost, with another 45 bombers, 50 reconnaissance craft and 17 transport aircraft not returning from their missions.

Soviet overall losses on the other hand were the lowest since the beginning of the war. However, the attacks took their price with combat deaths only trailing the September numbers with 56.835. Another 7.959 men were captured by German forces. As for equipment the Red Army lost 1.352 artillery pieces and 641 tanks. The VVS lost 335 fighters and fighter bombers, 59 tactical bombers and 125 level bombers.

Reserves

The huge amount of short term losses caused German pools to skyrocket. On 1st January 1942 a number of 266.743 men were available with 218.289 units of armaments on hand.

OOB

On 1st January 1942 the German forces in the east counted 3.073.985 men, 32.647 guns, 2.278 AFVs and 3.397 aircraft. Especially the fighting backbone of the Wehrmacht, the rifle squads took a severe hit with numbers dwindling to 21.017 squads ready, or barely 60% of the TOE strength.

Heeresgruppe Nord (v. Leeb)

16. Armee (Busch) - 162.037 men, 1.878 guns, 0 AFVs
II. AK (v. Brockdorff-Ahlefeldt) - 4 infantry divisions
X. AK (Hansen) - 4 infantry divisions
LI. AK (Reinhard) - 4 infantry divisions

18. Armee (v. Küchler) - 197.973 men, 2.336 guns, 0 AFVs
VI. AK (Laux) - 3 infantry divisions
XXVI. AK (Wodrig) - 3 infantry divisions
XXVIII. AK (v. Wiktorin) - 3 infantry divisions
L. AK (Lindemann) - 3 infantry divisions

4. Panzerarmee (Hoth) - 201.386 men, 2.194 guns, 701 AFVs
V. AK (Ruoff) - 3 infantry divisions
XXXX. AK (mot.) (Schaal) - 2 panzer divisions, 1 SS motorized brigade
XXXXI. AK (mot.) (Reinhardt) - 2 panzer divisions, 1 motorized division
LVI. AK (mot.) (Kirchner) - 1 panzer division, 1 motorized division, 1 SS division

Heeresgruppe Mitte (v. Bock)

2. Armee (v. Weichs) - 154.824 men, 1.860 guns, 31 AFVs
8. SS-K.B.
XII. AK (Marcks) - 4 infantry divisions
XIII. AK (Angelis) - 3 infantry divisions
XXXV. AK (Kämpfe) - 3 infantry divisions, 1 mountain division

4. Armee (Heinrici) - 194.761 men, 2.613 guns, 28 AFVs
VII. AK (Fahrmbacher) - 3 infantry divisions
IX. AK (Hell) - 3 infantry divisions, 1 mountain division
XXXXIII. AK (Rendulic) - 3 infantry divisions
LIII. AK (v. Tippelskirch) - 4 infantry divisions

9. Armee (Strauss) - 200.469 men, 2.251 guns, 60 AFVs
VIII. AK (Heitz) - 3 infantry divisions
XX. AK (Materna) - 3 infantry divisions
XXIII. AK (Stemmermann) - 3 infantry divisions
XXXXII. AK (Mieth) - 2 infantry divisions

2. Panzerarmee (Guderian) - 174.655 men, 2.136 guns, 398 AFVs
III. AK (mot.) (v. Mackensen) - 2 panzer divisions, 1 motorized division
XXIV. AK (mot.) (v. Schweppenburg) - 2 panzer divisions, 2 motorized divisions
XXXXVII. AK (mot.) (Lemelsen) - 2 panzer divisions, 1 motorized division

3. Panzerarmee (v. Manstein) - 234.480 men, 2.525 guns, 414 AFVs
I. AK (Model) - 3 infantry divisions
XXXVIII. AK (Strecker) - 3 infantry divisions
XXXIX. AK (mot.) (Schmidt) - 2 panzer divisions, 1 motorized divisions, 1 motorized brigade
LVII. AK (mot.) (v. Arnim) - 2 panzer divisions, 2 motorized division

Heeresgruppe Süd (v. Rundstedt)

6. Armee (v. Reichenau) - 208.452 men, 2.431 guns, 0 AFVs
Hungarian M.B.
XVII. AK (Schmidt) - 4 infantry divisions
XXIX. AK (v. Obstfelder) - 3 infantry divisions
XXXXIV. AK (v. d. Chevallerie) - 3 infantry divisions
LV. AK (Vierow) - 2 infantry divisions, 1 Slovakian division

11. Armee (v. Schobert) - 233.076 men, 2.488 guns, 21 AFVs
XI. AK (v. Kortzfleisch) - 3 infantry divisions
XXX. AK (v. Salmuth) - 2 infantry divisions, 1 airlanding division
XXXIV. AK (Hollidt) - 3 infantry divisions
LIV. AK (Hansen) - 3 infantry divisions

17. Armee (Hoepner) - 180.083 men, 2.224 guns, 21 AFVs
IV. AK (Herzog) - 4 infantry divisions
XXXXIX. GK (Kübler) - 4 infantry divisions
LII. AK (v. Briesen) - 4 infantry divisions

1. Panzerarmee (v. Kleist) - 194.342 men, 2.337 guns, 535 AFVs
XIV. AK (mot.) (v. Knobelsdorff) - 1 panzer division, 1 SS division, 1 SS motorized brigade, Großdeutschland, 1 Slovakian mobile division
XXXXVI. AK (mot.) (v. Vietinghoff) - 1 panzer division, 2 SS divisions
XXXXVIII. AK (mot). (Kempf) - 2 panzer divisions, 1 motorized division

Armata 3 (Dumitrescu) - 201.531 men, 1.958 guns, 98 AFVs
Corp. 1 (Ionescu) - 4 infantry divisions
Corp. 4 (Sanatescu) - 4 infantry divisions
Corp. de Munte (Avramescu) - 3 mountain brigades
Corp. de Cav. (Racovita) - 1 armoured division, 3 cavalry brigades

Armata 4 (Ciuperca) - 151.106 men, 1.676 guns, 4 AFVs
Corp. 2 (Macici) - 3 infantry divisions
Corp. 3 (Atanasiu) - 3 infantry divisions, 1 cavalry brigade
Corp. 5 (Levanti) - 3 infantry divisions
Corp. 11 (Constantinescu-Claps) - 1 infantry division, 2 infantry brigades

CSIR (Messe) - 2 infantry divisions, 1 cavalry division

Hungarians - 1 cavalry brigade

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 179
Yearly Review: 1941 - 6/9/2014 12:09:31 PM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		Yearly Review: 1941


Territorial changes 1941


OOB














Pools



[
b]Losses








(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 180
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: Turn 22: 13th November 1941 - 19th November 1941 Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.672