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So... how is it? - 11/8/2013 3:15:23 PM

Texashawk

Posts: 208
Joined: 12/9/2006
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Lot of positive comments buzzing around here. As I stated in an earlier thread, I'm picking up this bad boy regardless once I get home and even though I said I didn't plan to really play it, I'm now intrigued. The utter lack of major issues in the tech forum is very positive (and surprising!) so just one basic question...

How is the game?

Steve

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Post #: 1

RE: So... how is it? - 11/8/2013 4:06:01 PM

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Texashawk

Lot of positive comments buzzing around here. As I stated in an earlier thread, I'm picking up this bad boy regardless once I get home and even though I said I didn't plan to really play it, I'm now intrigued. The utter lack of major issues in the tech forum is very positive (and surprising!) so just one basic question...

How is the game?

Steve

Hi Steve

I have been a beta tester for several years now, I knew nothing of this game other then some posts when I started. They picked me for my superior knowledge of computer war games

or so I thought but actually they wanted a beta tester that had no idea what he was doing and they figured if Bo can learn the game then anybody could

I was one of the beta testers that felt we should release the game with an AI. But I realize now that this would have taken another year or so. I am a person who does not like solo playing but have since changed my mind on that. Everyone here knows I am not a homeboy and I speak my mind, sometimes too much.

If you read my posts on demo's and AAR's which are on other pages you will see I played most of the demo's from in the program and the outcomes of different battles were not enforced by me but by the program. I never knew how the battles were going to turn out at odds of 1/1, 2/1, 3/1, 4/1, and even at higher odds of 5/1 and 6/1 bad things could happen with a bad die roll.

At my age nothing excites me much anymore but I have to admit that when my Japanese carriers sunk the Enterprise the Lexington and the Hornet in the battle of the Coral sea with only the the loss of the Akagi I was happier than a pig wallowing in mud. Sorry I just got carried or carrier [pun] awayed.

This was the Guadalcanal scenario and if you lose a few carriers in that scenario you are in deep trouble.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 11/8/2013 5:09:33 PM >

(in reply to Texashawk)

Post #: 2

RE: So... how is it? - 11/8/2013 5:44:45 PM

Lingering Frey

Posts: 45
Joined: 2/16/2012
Status: offline

Since the AI has not been implemented: it's World in Flames, but without requiring a large sealed off room of your house to play in. Playable against another person over the internet. So far for me, bug free. There is a great deal of in-game help, beginner scenarios (from the original boardgame), and tutorial information to help with the learning curve. What more could one ask for?

(in reply to Texashawk)

Post #: 3

RE: So... how is it? - 11/8/2013 6:08:14 PM

Greyshaft

Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline

Like any new game there will inevitably be technical issues - definitely some small ones and maybe some bigger ones. The challenge is to keep them in context and provide the Forum feedback that will allow the problem to be fixed. There will always be those who attack every minor hiccup with cries of "The game is hopeless" and "Kill the developer" but for my part I prefer to see a glass that is almost full with a developer and team of testers working to squeeze even more nectar into the glass.

I say go for it!

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

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Post #: 4

RE: So... how is it? - 11/8/2013 6:33:10 PM

Peeking Duck?

Posts: 96
Joined: 8/30/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Texashawk

so just one basic question...

How is the game?

Steve

Sorry, too busy playing to reply

(in reply to Texashawk)

Post #: 5

RE: So... how is it? - 11/8/2013 7:04:50 PM

Zorachus99

Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline

Last night I started the Quickplay Barbarossa game.

I was playing in minutes. Port Attacked Leningrad on suprise impulse and sunk the BB Marat and a small cruiser.

Buoyed by my sucess, I setup 3 ground strikes in Russia with good bombers.

Ten rolls later, I had failed to disorganize a single unit. :(

Performed 6 attacks, and 5 of them went fine, but the important one rolled a '1' and most of army group north was disorganized, including Von Bock!

oy....

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Post #: 6

RE: So... how is it? - 11/8/2013 9:05:48 PM

Crimguy

Posts: 1409
Joined: 8/15/2003
From: Cave Creek, AZ
Status: offline

So are you guys playing solitaire or have human opponents?

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Post #: 7

RE: So... how is it? - 11/8/2013 10:25:02 PM

gravyhair

Posts: 164
Joined: 3/15/2003
Status: offline

Playing solitaire. The interface is ... clunky. There are little graphic glitches that seem to come and go without effect. It's not real intuitive, but if you know how to play WiF you can figure it out. The documents are quite ... pedantic. No style points there. But overall it is very impressive. Given the complexity of the task and the time it took, I frankly expected far less functionality. But it works. There are still some optional rules missing and I tend to use almost all of them, so I'll be looking for that. The big world map is quite impressive, if a little difficult to navigate (yes, I use the global map). China works, which was a concern. You need some serious screen real estate to take best advantage of it. I'm glad I bought it, but will still play VASSAL with my regular opponent for now.

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Post #: 8

RE: So... how is it? - 11/8/2013 10:56:52 PM

tdpyle

Posts: 76
Joined: 7/24/2004
Status: offline

I've been exploring the mechanics of the game versus the board game and the Chris Maracini's nearly complete (w/o AI) ADG computer version. Observations as follows (principally vs ADG version:

- The ADG version did not implement several of the board version options (such as kamakazes and V bombs. Neither does the Matrix version. As noted in the documentation still a work in progress.
- The ADG version had a "free setup" option which allowed positioning some units outside their assigned areas (ie: Nimitz could be setup in Honolulu). Neat but maybe gamey.
- The graphics and action/info boxes are generally much better than in the ADG version - with one exception. The setup box has somewhat tiny markers. Even on my 23" monitor, they are hard to read. Can't scale.
- The ADG version had an option for an "automatic vs manual initial setup for each power regardless of level of complexity chosen - including convoys. Made setup much easier. Could still adjust before ending.
- The documentation for the Matrix version is awesome. ADG version required relying on RAW from board game without much help interpreting them.
- So far, bug free but I've been poking around on mechanics and interfaces not playing out a game.

Overall, a classy offering. I look forward to future patches which add more options to the game. And maybe some day an AI although that's apparently where ADG's version went off the rails.

(in reply to Crimguy)

Post #: 9

RE: So... how is it? - 11/8/2013 11:43:03 PM

Dr. Foo

Posts: 666
Joined: 8/31/2004
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

So far, I'm pretty overwhelmed. I tried to read the tutorials but didn't like that much, so I've been watching the video tutorials and they are pretty good.

I started Barbarossa and kept messing up trying to set up air attacks...seriously, it's pretty easy in the video, but I was doing something wrong. Anyway, it's only my first day, so in a few days, I'm sure I'll have more of a feel for the game.

_____________________________

*Warning: Dr. Foo is not an actual doctor.
Do not accept or follow any medical advice*

(in reply to tdpyle)

Post #: 10

RE: So... how is it? - 11/8/2013 11:48:55 PM

FroBodine

Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline

I appreciate your comments, Dr. Foo, as a new player to World in Flames. I hope you continue giving your thoughts and comments as you learn over the next few days.

I am on the fence about getting this. I really want it, but I don't need another wargame that I hardly ever play.

I would love to hear your feedback as you play, if the game is learnable (is that a word), and if things are clicking as you go along.

(in reply to Dr. Foo)

Post #: 11

RE: So... how is it? - 11/8/2013 11:57:55 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

Well I've just finished my first session with the game (see my AAR if you are interested). I have to say that was a lot of fun. It will take time to get a proper understanding of the Production Planning / Convoy stuff, but that's okay.

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Post #: 12

RE: So... how is it? - 11/9/2013 12:22:33 AM

shaddock

Posts: 192
Joined: 9/18/2013
Status: offline

My observations so far: The game is beautiful. It works exceptionally well. Having tried to teach myself c/c++ I have a deep appreciation of the coding Steve has done (can you work on my game :) I've tried Barbarossa twice so far. The first time I got through only one turn. The second, and current time, I'm on turn 3. For a new player the learning curve is steep. If I can offer one piece of advice: a few high odds attacks are better than several low odds attacks. I shall continue to play around till I get the manuals (I know it's all in game, but I like holding a book).

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Post #: 13

RE: So... how is it? - 11/9/2013 12:53:25 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gravyhair

Playing solitaire. The interface is ... clunky. There are little graphic glitches that seem to come and go without effect. It's not real intuitive, but if you know how to play WiF you can figure it out. The documents are quite ... pedantic. No style points there. But overall it is very impressive. Given the complexity of the task and the time it took, I frankly expected far less functionality. But it works. There are still some optional rules missing and I tend to use almost all of them, so I'll be looking for that. The big world map is quite impressive, if a little difficult to navigate (yes, I use the global map). China works, which was a concern. You need some serious screen real estate to take best advantage of it. I'm glad I bought it, but will still play VASSAL with my regular opponent for now.

For navigation, try the Map Views.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to gravyhair)

Post #: 14

RE: So... how is it? - 11/9/2013 12:58:18 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tdpyle

I've been exploring the mechanics of the game versus the board game and the Chris Maracini's nearly complete (w/o AI) ADG computer version. Observations as follows (principally vs ADG version:

- The ADG version did not implement several of the board version options (such as kamakazes and V bombs. Neither does the Matrix version. As noted in the documentation still a work in progress.
- The ADG version had a "free setup" option which allowed positioning some units outside their assigned areas (ie: Nimitz could be setup in Honolulu). Neat but maybe gamey.
- The graphics and action/info boxes are generally much better than in the ADG version - with one exception. The setup box has somewhat tiny markers. Even on my 23" monitor, they are hard to read. Can't scale.
- The ADG version had an option for an "automatic vs manual initial setup for each power regardless of level of complexity chosen - including convoys. Made setup much easier. Could still adjust before ending.
- The documentation for the Matrix version is awesome. ADG version required relying on RAW from board game without much help interpreting them.
- So far, bug free but I've been poking around on mechanics and interfaces not playing out a game.

Overall, a classy offering. I look forward to future patches which add more options to the game. And maybe some day an AI although that's apparently where ADG's version went off the rails.

The setup tray has the same size unit depictions as the ADG version. I thought about making them larger but for player with a small monitor I wanted to keep the footprint as small as possible. You can switch on Medium resolution to make the numbers on the counters easier to read in the setup tray. The setup tray can also be resize horizontally, which you'll find useful if you have a larger monitor.

Try using the Restore Setup button in the setup tray. That will help get the convoys and the rest of the navy placed on the map for you. There's more to saved setups - described in the Players Manual. If you want to place convoys on the map individually, using the Global Map to drop them in sea areas is the easiest way to go.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to tdpyle)

Post #: 15

RE: So... how is it? - 11/9/2013 2:51:52 AM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline

I remember in 1978....I bought my first wargame(Squad Leader) and tried to read thru the rules. After reading thru it and trying to learn it....I thought to myself....for get this! So I put it in the closet.....way to hard for me. A few weeks later I went back to the hobby shop and bought 3R. I learned it....then thought, well if I can learn that one I can get the other one(Squad Leader). After learning 3R, Squad leaders system just fell into place. After you get the general ideal, most work on the same principle. However some are like a College course.....Such as GMT's A World at War(200 pages & Massive amount of Charts). For me at my age if it has more than 50-60 pages rules...I really have to be interested to spend the time to learn it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo

So far, I'm pretty overwhelmed. I tried to read the tutorials but didn't like that much, so I've been watching the video tutorials and they are pretty good.

I started Barbarossa and kept messing up trying to set up air attacks...seriously, it's pretty easy in the video, but I was doing something wrong. Anyway, it's only my first day, so in a few days, I'm sure I'll have more of a feel for the game.

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to Dr. Foo)

Post #: 16

RE: So... how is it? - 11/9/2013 3:52:44 AM

Dr. Foo

Posts: 666
Joined: 8/31/2004
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

I appreciate your comments, Dr. Foo, as a new player to World in Flames. I hope you continue giving your thoughts and comments as you learn over the next few days.

I am on the fence about getting this. I really want it, but I don't need another wargame that I hardly ever play.

I would love to hear your feedback as you play, if the game is learnable (is that a word), and if things are clicking as you go along.

Thank you much. You know, I was really on the fence on this one. The game seemed too big, and too daunting. I felt like mastering the game would be the equivalent if earning a PhD! However, this is the game I have always wanted...the entire war at my finger tips.

Everything is including land, air and sea combat. So many games give you land but make air and sea too abstract or they give you sea and make land combat abstract. This is finally the game that does it all. I just couldn't pass it up. I'll probably never get any better than experienced level but that's OK I'll most likely only have time for solitaire play anyway.

_____________________________

*Warning: Dr. Foo is not an actual doctor.
Do not accept or follow any medical advice*

(in reply to FroBodine)

Post #: 17

RE: So... how is it? - 11/9/2013 3:57:49 AM

Dr. Foo

Posts: 666
Joined: 8/31/2004
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

I remember in 1978....I bought my first wargame(Squad Leader) and tried to read thru the rules. After reading thru it and trying to learn it....I thought to myself....for get this!

I remember going through the same thing. My first game was Rise and Decline of the Third Reich...I gave up trying to learn it and just made up my own super simple rules.

_____________________________

*Warning: Dr. Foo is not an actual doctor.
Do not accept or follow any medical advice*

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)

Post #: 18

RE: So... how is it? - 11/9/2013 5:18:29 AM

Neilster

Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline

My first wargame was WiF. Kind of a steep learning curve but for the reasons Dr Foo has mentioned, I stuck with it because I wanted to play the entire war, control production and make all the strategic decisions.

After WiF I had a bit of trouble getting into operational level games because I was used to the corps level-strategic scale and always frustrated by "edge of map effects" and being constrained by directives etc. I delayed getting into TOAW because of that but with experience and application I eventually got it.

Now I love every scale, but I think it'll be plenty of MWiF for this guy. My wish...a proper slave labour rule, so as the Axis I can be truly evil and employ the vast pool of human resource in my conquered territories

Of course that's probably built into the game mechanics anyway, but the Germans especially didn't realise this for a while. I recall Himmler bemoaning all the Soviet POWs they starved to death in 1941 when they could have been employed as labour. What a ****.

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to Dr. Foo)

Post #: 19

RE: So... how is it? - 11/9/2013 1:10:52 PM

tdpyle

Posts: 76
Joined: 7/24/2004
Status: offline

Good suggestions. I'm still playing around exploring the mechanics and interface. Once I get a setup I like for each of the scenarios, I can save them and avoid the time consuming ships and convoys initial placements. Someone commented that the game interface was "clunky" but considering the complexity of the interfacing task, it seems pretty smooth to me. Lot of information available to the gamer onscreen.

What's really needed to improve this great game is larger monitor, faster processor in my desktop computer and a better graphics card. I must consult with my wife about this essential need (not want)

.

I'm looking forward to getting the books. The e-book versions look great and are much more coherent than the ADG RAW manual. I've tried side-loading PDF manuals into my e-reader but the results aren't very satisfactory from a useability standpoint. Putting them on one of my smaller laptops might work out.

Finally, my complements to the beta testers. They seem to have really worked out the glitches and bugs. Great job for an initial release.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 20