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RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/12/2013 4:35:58 AM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pax25

Just purchased today. Never have I spent this much money on a computer game, but I simply had to add this to my collection. Have watched all the YouTube tutorials and now trying out the Barbarossa scenario. Looking forward to online play soon.


Play solitaire mode at first.

I just found a few netplay bugs.

Steve is doing great fixing things though.

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Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

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Post #: 151
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/14/2013 11:58:14 AM   
Walker84


Posts: 850
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		So, I downloaded the game a week ago and my glossy manuals have also turned up.

As I have never played the board game before, I am slowly working my way through the game solitaire fashion in an attempt to understand all of the rules. As a War in the Pacific vet, I chose Guadalcanal as an 'entry level' scenario to help me to get a feel for the mechanics of naval and air combined ops, plus an opportunity to compare and contrast both games. They are very different!

So far, Japan has captured Guadalcanal which I allowed for historical reasons rather than being a key victory condition. I have also spent a fair bit of time learning how to move ships and air units around, transport different unit types, and launch an amphibious assault. There have been various air vs naval encounters but no major Coral Sea-type CV action has taken place as yet. I'm tempted to just throw the main fleets next turn together to see what happens!

It certainly has been a steep learning curve - although there's plenty of help in the tutorials & manual I was too impulsive to watch and read everything and decided to wade in. Along the way I have made basic errors, e.g. losing a unit to stacking limits, failing to load a unit on a TRNS correctly, spending ages figuring out why I can't end an impulse due to a greyed out box etc. etc. However, solitaire mode can be most forgiving!

Hoping that some of the netplay glitches I have been reading about will have diminished by the time I come to play a live opponent.

When I have played through Guadalcanal I am planning to move on to Barbarossa to get a feel for the land campaign; afterwards I will probably see if I can improve on Guadalcanal second time round, then I might start the full campaign. The forum continues to be a great source for a new player, reading AARs and other tips has been invaluable.





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Post #: 152
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/14/2013 3:58:54 PM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline 		I wish every new player would approach the game the same way you are.

By the time you get the hang of the mechanics, the pro's will be there to educate you on the operational art of war. (oops did I steal that from somewhere?)

However...

Definitely have a big carrier battle / Ship battle, and save before you search for each other.

Repeat that battle 4+ times, and report back on your findings :) I'm sure you will notice that outside of failing the find with both players, the battle result is almost never the same.

This will help you a lot.

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

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Post #: 153
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/14/2013 6:24:07 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Any naval combat that isn't completely lopsided in the favor of one side is terrifying for both.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 154
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/14/2013 11:12:37 PM   
Walker84


Posts: 850
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks for the feedback. Well, I did have a couple of successful naval actions with land-based air also involved. Interestingly the main surface battle fleets never got together as it ended up in a contest of naval air just like in the real war.

In the Gulf of Bengal, Japanese Hayabusas won the die roll and AX'd the elite Spitfire VB unit protecting the CW Far East Fleet. Then, in the Coral Sea, CV Essex was lost to naval air. Other ships were aborted and/or damaged but here is the final destroyed pool tally as the game drew to an end in J/F '43.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most advanced nations are always those who navigate the most -
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 -1882)

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 155
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/14/2013 11:19:59 PM   
Walker84


Posts: 850
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		The only thing I don't follow is the Allied decisive victory result as I can't figure out how the victory conditions were satisfied with no strategic objectives changing hands and only 1 CV lost, plus I suspect I may not have kept the requisite number of Japanese convoys in the S China Seas. Anyway, its on to Barbarossa next.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most advanced nations are always those who navigate the most -
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 -1882)

(in reply to Walker84)
Post #: 156
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/14/2013 11:21:37 PM   
Walker84


Posts: 850
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		Meant to embed the picture...




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The most advanced nations are always those who navigate the most -
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 -1882)

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Post #: 157
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/15/2013 12:14:13 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker84

Meant to embed the picture...




The convoys were crucial for Japan. Without oil, they would have been unable to fly air units and sail ships. The 40 points looks like there were a lot of missing convoys.

It's real important to know the victory conditions.

===

One of the most infuriating games I ever played was at an Origins convention in the 1970's. The people running the tournament had made up multiple secret victory conditions for each side and gave them out at the beginning of each round. You only knew what your own victory conditions were. After completely destroying my opponent, so he had no units left on the board and I held every hex on the map, I found out that I had lost because he only had to destroy a few of my units. Livid doesn't begin to describe it.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 158
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/15/2013 2:17:11 AM   
LiquidSky


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Joined: 6/24/2008
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The rule book is rather vague on victory conditions. And spread out in a few different spots. In the RaW, you bid for powers, and you add that bid to a base value.

The rules on bidding in Volume 1. are on page 99-100. They say that in a multiplayer game you can bid. Page 136 tells you when victory is checked.
Volume 2 Page 125-126 tells us how to get an automatic victory, and lists all the objective hexes. It tells you how to add up victory points, and to subtract your bid. It mentions subtracting your modified bid, and points you to the third book...

RAC 23.1.2 Which doesn't exist.

There is a little chart in each scenario (pages 86-87 in Volume 1 for Global War), which lists Historical objectives. Nothing mentions using this in the bidding process. I would assume that this chart is what you are supposed to use to modify the bid except:

It differs greatly from RaW.

Volume 1: Global War....Germany. Modify by 0.
RaW Modify by 10.

RaC Japan: 9
RaW Japan: 5

The number of objectives in RaC and Raw are the same, so why the huge swing in favour of the Germans? Is the Historical objectives list in the scenario used for victory, or is it just an information thing?

There is nothing on pages 186-187 of Vol2, which tells the differences between Raw and RaC to say that victory has changed between the two games.



< Message edited by LiquidSky -- 12/15/2013 3:40:18 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 159
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/15/2013 11:25:14 AM   
Walker84


Posts: 850
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks for the helpful responses guys.

Steve, I'm sure it was the convoys that made the difference. I saw these big convoy units in the Philippines at the start and broke them up to transport reinforcements from the Home Islands to Truk and Rabaul. Subsequently I forgot all about re-positioning them. I guess in the main scenarios you would soon discover if you were not sending enough oil and resources in the right direction.

So, the important lesson is to be clear about the victory conditions from the outset and check again in good time before the scenario draws to a close. I was mainly concerned with play-testing the game mechanics on this occasion but will watch out for this in future. Incidentally, I did locate the Guadalcanal VC conditions again from the drop down menu on the last turn but, as this was after naval movement, it would have been too late to change anything. Aw well, we live and learn.



_____________________________

The most advanced nations are always those who navigate the most -
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 -1882)

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 160
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/15/2013 12:41:43 PM   
wolf14455


Posts: 1196
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline 		Yesterday me and my co owner of this game tried to play this long awaited game. We bought it when it came out but hadnt got a chance to try it togehter. First we tried Barbarossa but after 3 events where game didnt find the way to ask for end of action after a groundstrike we thought we go for broke and started Global instead. But after +2 hours (was planned to do at least 6 h) we called it quits. We used the best tool in the game, autosave to go back every time things maked us stuck. And the game didnt help us much as computergames do, was more like a computer aided boardgame my co-owner thought. He is an awsome opponent in more complez ww2 games like Gary Griegsbys "War in Russia" but he thought this game was a fight with computer forced boardgame rules and not very exciting. Maybee I can make him play again when AI comes for some of the Powers like USA,China etc and the game is more like a computergame with less bugs and freezes.
If someone in Sweden want to buy it with all three books we can let them hav it without the huge 500skr in postage. Why do I sell it, you thinking, as I still rule for the games potential and eventual awsomeness. The answer is an easy one. I cant afford bearing the cost my self and couldent afford to buy it if I was buying it alone.
So as I live in Gothenburg Sweden and anyone think a trip here to fetch it or pay for less in Europe postage I let you have it. PM me if you interested.
Sorry dev for me not economicly can carry the game to support your huge effort.
cheers

< Message edited by Swedewolf -- 12/15/2013 2:26:10 PM >

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SwedeWolf

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RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/15/2013 3:48:25 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		Why does everyone expect perfection from a game this complex upon release? Do you honestly think a single developer along with a small handful of beta testers could do this when major studios cannot? How many differnet PC's/internet connections could they really test on?

If the game is so fustrating just wait until a few more patches and then give it a try. And we are not talking about months before the next patch, we are talking next week, And another one after the 6th. Is it really too much to have wait a few weeks? If so, then you should not be playing any computer games if this is your expectation.

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Post #: 162
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/15/2013 4:10:08 PM   
wolf14455


Posts: 1196
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline 		We not talking about me but my co owner. He want me to buy him out. But thanx for understanding my txt. Good job.

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SwedeWolf

I was called Lill Sputnik (Little sputnik) as a baby in 58-59

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Post #: 163
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/15/2013 5:45:28 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



The rule book is rather vague on victory conditions. And spread out in a few different spots. In the RaW, you bid for powers, and you add that bid to a base value.

The rules on bidding in Volume 1. are on page 99-100. They say that in a multiplayer game you can bid. Page 136 tells you when victory is checked.
Volume 2 Page 125-126 tells us how to get an automatic victory, and lists all the objective hexes. It tells you how to add up victory points, and to subtract your bid. It mentions subtracting your modified bid, and points you to the third book...

RAC 23.1.2 Which doesn't exist.

There is a little chart in each scenario (pages 86-87 in Volume 1 for Global War), which lists Historical objectives. Nothing mentions using this in the bidding process. I would assume that this chart is what you are supposed to use to modify the bid except:

It differs greatly from RaW.

Volume 1: Global War....Germany. Modify by 0.
RaW Modify by 10.

RaC Japan: 9
RaW Japan: 5

The number of objectives in RaC and Raw are the same, so why the huge swing in favour of the Germans? Is the Historical objectives list in the scenario used for victory, or is it just an information thing?

There is nothing on pages 186-187 of Vol2, which tells the differences between Raw and RaC to say that victory has changed between the two games.



A comparison of the Scenario Booklet PDF included with MWIF and the corresponding section from the Players Manual.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 164
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/15/2013 5:49:14 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Another helping of crow, monsieur?

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RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/15/2013 5:53:51 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

One of the most infuriating games I ever played was at an Origins convention in the 1970's. The people running the tournament had made up multiple secret victory conditions for each side and gave them out at the beginning of each round. You only knew what your own victory conditions were. After completely destroying my opponent, so he had no units left on the board and I held every hex on the map, I found out that I had lost because he only had to destroy a few of my units. Livid doesn't begin to describe it.

I would still be mad about it.

You do have my sympathy Steve even though it is a bit late.

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RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/15/2013 8:08:11 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Swedewolf

If someone in Sweden want to buy it with all three books we can let them hav it without the huge 500skr in postage. Why do I sell it, you thinking, as I still rule for the games potential and eventual awsomeness. The answer is an easy one. I cant afford bearing the cost my self and couldent afford to buy it if I was buying it alone.
So as I live in Gothenburg Sweden and anyone think a trip here to fetch it or pay for less in Europe postage I let you have it. PM me if you interested.
Sorry dev for me not economicly can carry the game to support your huge effort.
cheers


Can you please explain how I misunderstood your post please? Since when you discussed 'buying out' you always used 'I" and not 'my friend'?

(in reply to wolf14455)
Post #: 167
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/15/2013 8:50:17 PM   
wolf14455


Posts: 1196
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline 		Hehe low grade Swedish translated to English combined with light dyslexia. Sorry for my temper.

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RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/15/2013 11:19:56 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
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Status: offline 		That what I figured so no problem

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RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/16/2013 11:16:19 AM   
mldtchdog

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 7/23/2006
Status: offline 		Today the French resistance immediately made an appearance in Le Havre, one of the only two hexes in German occupied France that did not have a German unit there and of the those two the only hex that did not lie in Zone of Control. Like the very next impulse after Germany entered and left that hex and the turn ended.

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Post #: 170
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/17/2013 1:49:13 AM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



The rule book is rather vague on victory conditions. And spread out in a few different spots. In the RaW, you bid for powers, and you add that bid to a base value.

The rules on bidding in Volume 1. are on page 99-100. They say that in a multiplayer game you can bid. Page 136 tells you when victory is checked.
Volume 2 Page 125-126 tells us how to get an automatic victory, and lists all the objective hexes. It tells you how to add up victory points, and to subtract your bid. It mentions subtracting your modified bid, and points you to the third book...

RAC 23.1.2 Which doesn't exist.

There is a little chart in each scenario (pages 86-87 in Volume 1 for Global War), which lists Historical objectives. Nothing mentions using this in the bidding process. I would assume that this chart is what you are supposed to use to modify the bid except:

It differs greatly from RaW.

Volume 1: Global War....Germany. Modify by 0.
RaW Modify by 10.

RaC Japan: 9
RaW Japan: 5

The number of objectives in RaC and Raw are the same, so why the huge swing in favour of the Germans? Is the Historical objectives list in the scenario used for victory, or is it just an information thing?

There is nothing on pages 186-187 of Vol2, which tells the differences between Raw and RaC to say that victory has changed between the two games.



A comparison of the Scenario Booklet PDF included with MWIF and the corresponding section from the Players Manual.

EDIT: Image removed for bandwidth


This comparison does nothing except make me suspect that you and the people responsible for writing the players handbook have never played a game with the actual victory conditions from the RaW.

Let me explain how bidding works...in the board game. Better yet, from the very same place you got your image from, I pull this:









Basically you bid a number in auction style, starting at -20. Highest bidder gets to pick any country (or group of countries) that are available.

In the example, the highest bid is 5. She picks USA/CHINA. Her modified bid is her bid (5), plus USA (17) + CHINA (2) for a modified bid of 24.
On the next page, the example goes on showing how the rest of the bidding works, USING THIS CHART!

The historical controlled objectives is just to help you bid intelligently, and is not actually used in the bidding process. For example, Susan would have had a final score of 15 - 24 = -9.

This chart is rather important for determining victory, and it is missing from the books.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by LiquidSky -- 12/17/2013 3:03:03 AM >

_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

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Post #: 171
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/17/2013 4:04:17 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		Well untill more that 2 people can play the game I really see no need for this to be included yet do you? As we do not know how the game will work for more than two people at a time, but I would assume that this would be included at that point.

I would much rather the current crop of bugs, etc. be corrected versus adding this in when it is not even needed yet.

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 172
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/22/2013 10:52:33 PM   
Dorb


Posts: 371
Joined: 10/8/2013
From: Ohio
Status: offline 		Downloaded version 1.07. But really must confess, I have not messed much with this game lately, as I have been busy grabbing other games on the holiday Sale and playing them. Like I said, no rush with this, until the AI comes out.

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Post #: 173
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 12/23/2013 9:17:11 PM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		I've finished Mar/Apr40 for my AAR. Working on May/Jun40.

Yes! shameless promotion.

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Post #: 174
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 1/10/2014 11:18:12 PM   
Dorb


Posts: 371
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From: Ohio
Status: offline 		Downloaded Version 1.00.09.00

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Post #: 175
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 1/11/2014 1:38:12 AM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		well I haven't played World in Flames today but I might run through an impulse when I get 'home' in an hour or so

but over the last 3 weeks I have been trying a solitaire game using the Australian resources > Canada & Canadian resources > UK convoy routing I first read about here, probably from Paul D.

I have to say that it is quite a superior set up to anything I have come up with before. It burns a little more oil in production for the Commonwealth than I am used to, but that should work out OK as the Axis will likely be demoralized by the time the Allies feel any oil pinch late in the game. This is because this routing brings all 4 French overseas resources to France, along with the Iraqi oil, which is something I've never accomplished before as the Allies.

The result is that France is a fair bit stronger, with more BPs to get units on the board for the spring of 1940. When you combine this with my preferred CW strategy of pumping BPs into France for a few turns from N/D 39 through M/A 40, the Germans have a tough go of it.

If….. the German strategy is to take down France without using an Offensive Chit, and without generating any non-necessary US Entry Chits in 1939.

My first run through of this worked so well - Paris fell in Nov/Dec 40, with a huge BEF building houses to stay in out in Brittany - that the Axis threw in the towel. I now started another game to work on an improved Axis response to this strong France blocking them, before their preferred strategy for the mid-game. I think I have that figured out …. we'll see …..

I would say that shipping Australian resources to Canada is a fairly gamey thing to do. But then the Axis strategy I am trying to counter as the Allies, though a standard WiF strategy, is fairly gamey as well.

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Post #: 176
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 1/11/2014 1:47:43 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		Well that is really gamey. There were no major Canadian ports on the Pacific coast that could handle that kind shipping. Matter of fact there still aren't any to this day. Not to mention that the rail capicity between the west and east coast could not handle that amout of load either. So it may look like we need our first house rule to not allow this type of shipping path.

As I have never played the board game, was this allowed or is this somrthing new that has been discovered due to MWiF?

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 1/11/2014 2:48:44 AM >

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Post #: 177
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 1/11/2014 2:37:49 AM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		No, that is just part of World in Flames. I'm sure the city of Vancouver would dispute your analysis of Canadian west coast shipping capacity. But in WiF you could just land the resources in San Diego or Mexico first anyway, and burn up the rail networks of several countries at once instead.

It does pay to recall that World in Flames is designed to be as simple as possible, believe it or not. With as few special case rules as possible, while you can still play all of WWII on a global level. It achieves this at the expense of realism at times. There are ways around this, sure, but they are unlikely to be implemented formally in the game. That's just the way it is. No one wants to play Quartermaster in Flames.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 178
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 1/11/2014 6:38:59 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		Yes Vancover is a port, but it certainly would not have had the capacity in 1939 to be able to handle a massive amount of goods like that.

Also until the US was in the war, only Canadian ports and rail lines could be used. Which of course is why this never occured in the real war. If something like this was at all doable in the real war, it would have been done as Oz is a lot closer to Canada than the UK.

I also agree the game simplifies things for the reasons you mention. Of course this simplification allows actions that I would consider impossible to occur in RL. Not just unlikely or difficult, but impossible. Of course that is just my opinion

All I can say I would not want to play that way since it obviously 'breaks' the system. Remember all games are really systems. So if you push any system to extremes or do things outside the design paramenters, the system cannot handle it so it breaks down. In this case it allows ahistorical prodcuction to occur without any coresponding downside, like needing more CPs or reducing UK BPs to increase Frances, etc. Just beacuse a system allows something to done, does not always means it is a good thing to do it. Of course if finding ways to 'break the system' is part of the enjoyment of playing games, then that is fine too it just does not appeal to me.

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Post #: 179
RE: What did you do today in World in Flames? - 1/11/2014 12:55:51 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
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From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		Neutral countries liked the trade coming from transporting raw materials of the other countries. As long as there weren't weapons transported through their countries, they were OK with the additional use of their transportation systems. A lot of goods were exported by South American countries to Spain and than transported into Germany for example. Merchant vessels of nations at war were welcome in any neutral port. So if the CW would have set up a large convoy line towards the US east coast, they would have gotten the trains in the US to transport the goods into Canada as long as they would pay for the transportation...

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