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- 1/31/2003 1:38:30 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Sex is not a rigid system of rules on paper (hmmm well yes there are no hexes I recall, but is that significant)?

Hmm me thinks you don't get much tombstone:D

There are a LOT of "Rules" (ask any married guy).

But I suppose convenience is important to some. The convenience though really doesn't mean much to me.
I don't "like" rolling dice per se, as an action it really isn't awe inspiring, but it hardly bothers me.

Puzzling over the game with friends...I guess it depends on the friends. I have some good buddies that suck as gamers. So I don't game with them when I want to game.
My old wargaming buddy and I always added something to the game experience though. He acted out the pationate Nazi while I was intent on sweeping the world of capitalist scum. To be sure, anyone taping us would think we were both hostile racist swine:)
It was all just harmless vocal stupidity though (neither of us would push a racist out of the way of an onrushing truck in truth).

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 31
- 1/31/2003 5:24:33 AM   
Tombstone

 

Posts: 764
Joined: 6/1/2000
From: Los Angeles, California
Status: offline 		As far as sex (which I can't believe I'm even responding) I get neither too much, nor too little. I'm not saying that boardgames are not to be liked, nor am I saying that they are obsolete. I am saying that there isn't anything you can do as boardgame that can't be done better and faster on a computer.

Tomo

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 32
- 1/31/2003 5:30:23 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tombstone
[B]But it WOULD be silly to say that boardgames are doing as well as they were doing 15 years ago tho. People do play boardgames, I do myself sometimes... but come on, things aren't like they used to be.

Tomo [/B][/QUOTE]

Exactly. Just a FACT. And as computer wargames get better and better, and as the "nostalgic" wargamers amongst us get older and older... It will only get worse..

Just like no one uses horses to pull farm equipment, does long division anymore, or uses typewriters, even faxing is dying out, postal mail?, hundreds of examples..

Board wargames will die out as well...

They will be "obsolete".

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 33
- 1/31/2003 5:38:38 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Nah, lets see.

A turn of Victory the Blocks of War, faster than most of my computer wargames.

A turn of Axis and Allies, faster than any computer wargame that I can think of.

A turn of ASL (if you play the small scenarios) about as long as a turn of Steel Panthers on average (unless your play style is not to analytical).

I think a turn of most division level games on board games, is comparable to a turn in Operational Art of War.

A turn in A3R might be longer than a turn in Strategic Command, but then it depends on what side, what year it is, and how much thinking you want to do.

A turn in Up Front, almost as fast as you can play cards. No computer game is going to keep up with that.

A turn in Panzerblitz is basically about as fast as a turn in SP 3. Depends on how long you are going to spend deciding where to move the unit to.

Just because the computer is keeping track of the rules and the math, does not make playing them faster i n all cases eh.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 34
- 1/31/2003 5:48:12 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]Nah, lets see.

A turn of Axis and Allies, faster than any computer wargame that I can think of.

Just because the computer is keeping track of the rules and the math, does not make playing them faster i n all cases eh. [/B][/QUOTE]

A turn in computer axis and allies is faster than a turn of the board game. For one no setup or cleanup, and it rolls the dice and interprets rules so less need to look them up. If your going to compare, compare equal things. If a computer game takes longer than a boardgame, its only because it has more depth of play, detail etc.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 35
- 1/31/2003 5:58:24 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Well considering that there are practically no examples of board game version, and exact computer game conversion comparisons, the comment has little merit on its own.

Computer wargames are not always faster than comparable scale board games.

That Axis and Allies on the computer can be set up and started faster, does not in any useful way say that computer wargames are defacto faster by default in all cases.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 36
- 1/31/2003 6:25:33 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		What does "faster" have to do with it? A month or so ago, somebody took issue with my ability to play UV turns at what seemed to him to be a rapid rate and stated that he liked to savor the experience more.

Board wargames are not dying out, nor are they likely to do so. The designers have taken two directions: one, they are producing serious, sophisticated games that only devotees of the hobby can enjoy; and two, they are producing easy-to-medium difficulty games that engage a wider playing public. The companies that survived the shakeout of the nineties are staying alive and even increasing their sales (although the current state of the world economy is having an effect, as it is on all sectors of economic life). This is not at all different from the approach taken by many of the early leaders in the hobby, such as Avalon Hill. AH met its Waterloo (sorry, couldn't resist) by sacrificing the serious for what it perceived to be the saleable. "Dr. Ruth's Game of Good Sex" may have been the final stake through the heart. Multi-Man Publishing is trying to keep the flame burning, but seems to be having trouble moving significantly beyond the ASL series (which is remarkable in itself).

Those who collect board wargames (and I am one of them) are contributing to a healthy commercial exchange of fun, interesting games that can be enjoyed anytime, by anyone. My collection consists of many duplicate copies: one that is punched and used for play and another that is in "mint" condition and safely stored away to appreciate in value.

I have a nice group of wargaming friends, both locally and with whom I play postally and PBEM, who range in age from 24 to (this is just an estimate, 'cause Barry don't like to tell) 70. We love our board games. We love our computer games. We love to play them both solitaire and with each other.

Scr*w this "better on a computer" nonsense. Some subjects are better treated as board wargames. Some subjects are better treated as computer wargames. Some subjects can be done successfully both ways (and unsuccessfully both ways). The idea here is FUN, not characterizing those of us who buy and play board wargames as dinosaurs, computer illiterates, or people who just don't get it. Maybe YOU ought to try getting it and stop being so closed-minded and chauvinistic.

My baby asked me last night if I wanted to have some fun. I said, "Yeah, baby." She asked me how I wanted it. I said, "I takes my fun any way I can get it, long as it's fun."

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 37
- 1/31/2003 9:45:05 AM   
Tombstone

 

Posts: 764
Joined: 6/1/2000
From: Los Angeles, California
Status: offline 		Under rare circumstances a radio show can be superior to one on video or a screen. Those instances are rare. There will always be those who live in the past, it's comforting. It is just an opinion I suppose, but it sure feels like a fact to me.

Tomo

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 38
- 1/31/2003 10:52:59 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Ah man the memories. Listening to the Shadow on the radio was so cool.

I can even remember when just getting FM was cool.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 39
- 2/1/2003 3:26:01 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tombstone
[B]There will always be those who live in the past, it's comforting. It is just an opinion I suppose, but it sure feels like a fact to me.

Tomo [/B][/QUOTE]

Listen, pal, I hardly live in the past. Part of my work as an editor of scholarly legal publications involves graphic design, and I spend a great deal of my time working with some of the most sophisticated software and hardware in the publishing industry. Your evaluation of board wargames and those who play them strikes me as inconsequential when seen in light of your lack of significant experience with the board wargaming hobby. The plain fact is that there are many facets of board wargame design that computer wargame designers can't even come close to reproducing. The environments are entirely different and I, for one, enjoy both - without deprecating one or the other or the people who appreciate them.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 40
- 2/1/2003 3:52:29 AM   
Tombstone

 

Posts: 764
Joined: 6/1/2000
From: Los Angeles, California
Status: offline 		That's funny. I play a lot of boardgames, I used to play them all the time. Computers, job, and wife have changed that a lot. My life is games and understanding them is very important to me. I'm not knocking boardgames, but I honestly think that they exist mostly in a time that is nearly passed. The new developments in boardgame rules now focus a lot more on person to person interactions. Some of them are really sophisticated and a lot of fun. Games like Modern Art and even light duty games like Settlers of Cataan are a huge improvement over a lot of the classical wargames out there. Those wargames are far better portrayed in the computer format. Especially ones that model operational issues. I'm generalizing here as well, there are exceptions... but they are just that. Exceptions.

Tomo

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 41
- 2/1/2003 6:52:22 AM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tombstone
[B]Under rare circumstances a radio show can be superior to one on video or a screen. Those instances are rare. There will always be those who live in the past, it's comforting. It is just an opinion I suppose, but it sure feels like a fact to me.

Tomo [/B][/QUOTE]

Beer...

_____________________________


(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 42
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/2/2011 9:48:14 AM   
jeffcruz

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline 		i think both games are great at their own place ,i love to play carom etc and at the same time i love to play pc games like driver san francisco also.

_____________________________

jeff cruz

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 43
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/2/2011 1:11:54 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		I have joined a boardgame group in my area.When I get home I will probably attend.

(in reply to jeffcruz)
Post #: 44
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/2/2011 4:34:16 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		I had a 3 month period of fascination with solo boardgames this year. I don't know why but I have stopped playing them. On the other hand, I started spending unhealthy amounts of time by computer.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 10/2/2011 4:36:00 PM >

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 45
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/2/2011 5:53:23 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		A spambot bought this thread back from the ancient past.

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 46
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/2/2011 7:06:52 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		Another thing about board games is that they last longer if you take care of them(no system up grades). Also for some of the wargames(board) years later you can get your money back plus some-Look at ebay and the boardgame geek.  Last but not least most computer games the AI is marginial at best.  I myself still play and buy board wargames(I have DAK2 set up) along with the computer games(mainly historical).  I would recommend both. 

But I know after window's 20 comes out at least my DAK2 will still be running and looking pretty minus a little wear tear.


Note: With board games there is no DRM>

< Message edited by Titanwarrior89 -- 10/2/2011 7:10:42 PM >

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 47
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/2/2011 8:37:56 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Currently testing the solo gameplay for Bloody April by Terry Simo GMT games. You want a WW1 airwar game....this is the one.

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 48
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/2/2011 9:13:50 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		Ill take a look at it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Currently testing the solo gameplay for Bloody April by Terry Simo GMT games. You want a WW1 airwar game....this is the one.



_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 49
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/2/2011 10:03:49 PM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
But I know after window's 20 comes out at least my DAK2 will still be running and looking pretty minus a little wear tear.

Assuming you have not lost any counters and have a sports arena to lay out the maps for that particular game. *grin*



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Friends Don't Let Friends Facebook.

Twitter is for... (wait for it!) ...Twits!

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 50
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/2/2011 10:27:54 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
A spambot bought this thread back from the ancient past.


The odd thing though is that it hasn't dated at all. That must prove something, but I'm not quite sure what!

I was never that 'into' boardgames, although I've picked up some over time where the subject or mechanics particularly interested me. I think that's mainly because when I first got into wargaming at Uni both the college and city wargaming groups played miniatures games almost exclusively; SFB being about the only regular exception. Probably 80&% of my gaming time was playing WRG 6th or 7th ancients.



(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 51
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/2/2011 10:34:32 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
Note: With board games there is no DRM


Last month I traded 4 boardgames for others I might enjoy a bit more - imagine the horror if you tried that with DRM-infected pc games.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/71879/item/1830989#item1830989

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx


(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 52
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/3/2011 12:42:38 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		@TitanWarrior go to the forum on consim world...some AARS up there give you an idea of how it plays.

(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 53
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/3/2011 3:19:26 AM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		I have a table set up in my-"Man Cave"-all children out of the house-No Cats-baby gate for dog-and now soloing DAK2.
Wodin: I am a regular on Consim ill check the AAR's out.
quote:

ORIGINAL: E


quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
But I know after window's 20 comes out at least my DAK2 will still be running and looking pretty minus a little wear tear.

Assuming you have not lost any counters and have a sports arena to lay out the maps for that particular game. *grin*





_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to E)
Post #: 54
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/3/2011 4:01:50 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		God, what a freakin coincidence. I just joined a boardgame group this weekend. 

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 55
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/3/2011 10:00:36 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
Note: With board games there is no DRM


Last month I traded 4 boardgames for others I might enjoy a bit more - imagine the horror if you tried that with DRM-infected pc games.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/71879/item/1830989#item1830989

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx




Because pirating them is a difficult task! Unless you have the nerves to get the VASSAL version without owning the game itself.

Speaking of VASSAL. I own boardgames but I play them in the computer. :) I write Excel programs to automate some die roll resolution and chart referencing, as well as book-keeping and play the pieces in VASSAL. I might someday program something in Java (learning) as well.

< Message edited by jomni -- 10/3/2011 10:02:27 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 56
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/3/2011 11:52:03 AM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni
Because pirating them is a difficult task! Unless you have the nerves to get the VASSAL version without owning the game itself.


PC wargame world : don't put the pdf manual online, don't publish demos, keep games under lock&chain with DRM so their resale value is zero

Boardgame world : put the pdf manual oline, publish Vassal modules, do everything possible to accomodate the customer.

Guess which which market segment had a (reported) 10% market growth in 2010 ? Hint : it ain't the digital one

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to jomni)
Post #: 57
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/3/2011 1:19:56 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		The boardgame group I joined plays "Axis and Allies".How detailed is this game?Is it grognard?I was thinking of bringing ASL.

(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 58
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/3/2011 1:51:34 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander
The boardgame group I joined plays "Axis and Allies".How detailed is this game?Is it grognard?I was thinking of bringing ASL.


Axis and Allies is like advanced Risk - it has some nice wargamey type provisions for transporting troops, subs getting a free shot and nice subtleties like infantry being better in defence than offense but it's very, very light. Example : if the US builds a factory in China they can start "producing" troops there.

ASL is waaaaaay more complicated and frankly not really a good choice if you want to get people to play WWII tactical combat games with you. Conflict of Heroes, Lock 'n Load, Valor and Victory and even Combat Commander are better choices.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 59
RE: Board games v Computer games - 10/3/2011 3:18:51 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		Does anyone know any good board wargame that follows the up to two levels down rule?

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 60
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