Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: crsutton
Well having just wrapped up a full campaign (Aug 1 1945, Soviets activated) I can say that the BBs especially the old BBs are highly overrated for surface combat. I never use old Allied BBs in surface fights, they are too slow, too inexperienced and rarely fire their guns at night It is just easy points for the Japanese player. They have their greatest value later in the war supporting landings and should be saved for that.

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ORIGINAL: crsutton

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ORIGINAL: HexHead

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ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, the good news is that the Pearl Harbor attack does not have a great impact on the game. The Allied player can recover from the loss of the old BBs and if they are damaged that is one good way to keep them out of trouble for a year or so. For the Japanese player, if he does not find and sink a carrier or two, Pearl Harbor does not mean too much either.

I agree largely, Sarge, but wish to point out, at the risk of an Intel leak:

In the scenario I described above, with six BBs gone, off the board right away, the Allies are hurtin' fer certain when it comes to severe losses. Why? This is my teacup of experience: the Allies have next to no BB power when suffering more than a few bad losses/extreme damage/on the shelf time. The IJN has what, ten BBs on the board? The difference between the battlewagon capabilities is stark. This means that the IJ player can escort with, theoretically, a single BB or more practically, two; he can have more than a few SurfFleets to support invasions and cause trouble in general. Ya got nuttin' to stop 'em.

When the best the AFB can do is scratch together CruRons (OK, mebbe/prolly POW &, OK, Repulse) - well, all is takes is a Kongo in the vicinity and there went the neighborhood.

He doesn't even need the KB, etc., to run wild. Allied LBA? Yeah, right. Some good episodes here & there, but not a truly serious threat to a full fledged IJN flotilla. Will/should he use the KB? Sure, but the central point is that his surface capabilities are now a whole 'nother ball game, on top of existing problems.

It really stinks when you gotta be constantly worrying about an IJ BB TF with a bad attitude comin' round the bend - CA/CL combos can't deal with it for long, I think.

Especially at night. It is just a Most Royal PITA - it handcuffs the Allied surface game.

These are bad losses, to repeat - like six, fer instance, just poof!

ADDENDUM

I did forget Colorado and Warspite, but still...

Colorado won't see the waves 'til mid-Jan42, if you want the upgrades; Warspite is on the other side of the map from HM brethren. So, for weeks and weeks and weeks, an AFB can be looking at three or four BBs (BC) and that is it. Not a pretty picture.

Well having just wrapped up a full campaign (Aug 1 1945, Soviets activated) I can say that the BBs especially the old BBs are highly overrated for surface combat. I never use old Allied BBs in surface fights, they are too slow, too inexperienced and rarely fire their guns at night It is just easy points for the Japanese player. They have their greatest value later in the war supporting landings and should be saved for that.

I never found Japanese BBs to be that much of a threat either. Yes, they are powerful and you will be pounded on occasion but just like Allied BBs they are vulnerable at night, vulnerable to subs, vulnerable to PTs, One torpedo hit on a BB might put it in the shipyard for four to six months. I played my whole campaign and never intentionally used my Allied BBs once in a night surface fight. You simply do not need to waste them this way. Of course losing them all at Pearl Harbor kind of removes that temptation anyways...

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ORIGINAL: spence

According to Zimm in Attack on Pearl Harbor: (etc) the number of torpedo aircraft was determined months before the attack (IIRC September): long before the attachments to even make the attack possible at all were even invented. The airgroups of Shokaku and Zuikaku had exactly NO PRACTICE WHATSOVER at launching torpedoes at ships because they only came online in the fall of '41.

The complained of result is an approximation of what actually occurred. Given how the American Commanders (unconsciously perhaps) contributed with their orders to the disaster it is pretty difficult to figure out what the basis of the complaint is? The stupidity of the British Command in sending Prince of Wales and Repulse to their doom is almost guaranteed by the Historical First Turn option. So the IJ Player almost automatically gets a free slate to play at whatever he
wants.

While IJ Players wouldn't have as much fun without all these "gimmees" maybe the "historical scenario" should usually start somewhat close to historically. It just seems fair that the the IJ Players should negotiate for their Nuclear Death Rays and so forth instead of having them just being something that is given.