RE: Consequence of the Soviet side

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: Consequence of the Soviet side

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RE: Consequence of the Soviet side - 1/23/2014 8:04:54 PM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

quote:

The game is so screwed up right now far worse then 1 to 2 years ago.

Sad to say, but its really not worth playing right now.

You can close your eyes and win so easily now as Russian player-game is a complete waste of time in its current state.

This is not opinion but simply fact in AAR after AAR

Not sure how a game can be worse off then 2 years ago, but it clearly is.

+1

I am not even sure now the 1:1 > 2:1 option will help. Something has gone badly wrong with the game in the last 12 months. Meanwhile I am enjoying AGW.

No the game is working- morveal fixed so many screw ups.

2by3 has been tring to counter German MP's for 2.5 yrs buffing SHC- now that GHC side is WAD, SHC needs some major nerfs and I mean major.

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Michael T)

Post #: 91

RE: Consequence of the Soviet side - 1/23/2014 8:05:47 PM

Callistrid

Posts: 669
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline

Personally, I belive the best sollution is:

1. lowering the soviet movement points to max 8 in 41, 12 in blizzard turns, and 16 after 42 october
2. Double of the rail cost (all types, including industry, troops...)
3. In GC41 the 4 AGS panzer's movement set to 25, avoiding the Lvov pocket

(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 92

RE: Consequence of the Soviet side - 1/23/2014 8:58:15 PM

Michael T

Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline

quote:

SHC needs some major nerfs and I mean major.

Problem is it ain't going to happen my friend.

Callistrid your point 1 is very true. I advocated similar many moons ago. But ignored.

WITE is the only game on the War in Russia I have seen where Soviet INF can out speed German INF.

A big problem is Soviet units follow even the most complex orders perfectly in 1941.

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(in reply to Callistrid)

Post #: 93

RE: Consequence of the Soviet side - 1/23/2014 9:10:50 PM

M60A3TTS

Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

Personally, I belive the best sollution is:

1. lowering the soviet movement points to max 8 in 41, 12 in blizzard turns, and 16 after 42 october
2. Double of the rail cost (all types, including industry, troops...)
3. In GC41 the 4 AGS panzer's movement set to 25, avoiding the Lvov pocket

You can modify #2 as you wish on the transport section of game settings.

(in reply to Callistrid)

Post #: 94

RE: Consequence of the Soviet side - 1/23/2014 9:15:04 PM

Callistrid

Posts: 669
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

quote:

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

Personally, I belive the best sollution is:

1. lowering the soviet movement points to max 8 in 41, 12 in blizzard turns, and 16 after 42 october
2. Double of the rail cost (all types, including industry, troops...)
3. In GC41 the 4 AGS panzer's movement set to 25, avoiding the Lvov pocket

You can modify #2 as you wish on the transport section of game settings.

True :)

(in reply to M60A3TTS)

Post #: 95

RE: Consequence of the Soviet side - 1/23/2014 10:12:51 PM

hfarrish

Posts: 734
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

Personally, I belive the best sollution is:

1. lowering the soviet movement points to max 8 in 41, 12 in blizzard turns, and 16 after 42 october
2. Double of the rail cost (all types, including industry, troops...)
3. In GC41 the 4 AGS panzer's movement set to 25, avoiding the Lvov pocket

I think number 1 is extremely problematic (the other two probably ok) - with 8 MPs the Soviet player cannot attack at all unless their units start the turn adjacent to the Germans. This very often is not the case and will lead to a grossly ahistoric (and incredibly boring for the Red) '41 that I guarantee absolutely no Soviets will play once it is tested.

If anything the Soviets should have lower odds of succeeding in attacks (getting rid of the 1:1=2:1 rule and possibly other changes) and a GREATER ability to make them (i.e. a lower deliberate attack MP cost). This would do far more to simulate actual eastern front conditions - multiple bloody failures for the occasional success - than effectively cutting off the ability to counterattack meaningfully at all.

< Message edited by hfarrish -- 1/23/2014 11:13:40 PM >

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(in reply to Callistrid)

Post #: 96

RE: Consequence of the Soviet side - 1/23/2014 11:00:00 PM

Callistrid

Posts: 669
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish

quote:

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

Personally, I belive the best sollution is:

1. lowering the soviet movement points to max 8 in 41, 12 in blizzard turns, and 16 after 42 october
2. Double of the rail cost (all types, including industry, troops...)
3. In GC41 the 4 AGS panzer's movement set to 25, avoiding the Lvov pocket

I think number 1 is extremely problematic (the other two probably ok) - with 8 MPs the Soviet player cannot attack at all unless their units start the turn adjacent to the Germans. This very often is not the case and will lead to a grossly ahistoric (and incredibly boring for the Red) '41 that I guarantee absolutely no Soviets will play once it is tested.

If anything the Soviets should have lower odds of succeeding in attacks (getting rid of the 1:1=2:1 rule and possibly other changes) and a GREATER ability to make them (i.e. a lower deliberate attack MP cost). This would do far more to simulate actual eastern front conditions - multiple bloody failures for the occasional success - than effectively cutting off the ability to counterattack meaningfully at all.

Without the lvov pocket the soviet has enough power to something.

(in reply to hfarrish)

Post #: 97

RE: Consequence of the Soviet side - 1/23/2014 11:57:09 PM

hfarrish

Posts: 734
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline

Stopping power yes...but with no ability to plan counterattacks other than lucking into a reactionary slap at German units that the German player consents to leave nearby, it would be a profoundly passive defense, ahistoric and unfun.

I don't disagree that things need more work, but I don't think this is the solution.

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(in reply to Callistrid)

Post #: 98

RE: Consequence of the Soviet side - 1/24/2014 7:10:51 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

quote:

SHC needs some major nerfs and I mean major.

Problem is it ain't going to happen my friend.

Callistrid your point 1 is very true. I advocated similar many moons ago. But ignored.

WITE is the only game on the War in Russia I have seen where Soviet INF can out speed German INF.

A big problem is Soviet units follow even the most complex orders perfectly in 1941.

Except that MP is not the only issue, its also cost to enter enemy hexes/ZoCz etc (ie a consequence of morale). As hfarrish says, lowering MP removes the means to make any attacks. So MP in this game has to be set in terms of differential costs and that is unique.

Your second point has some merit, especially at the sub-game scale. The biggest problem in co-ordinating at division and above was getting everything in place in time. That leads to the problem of a 1 week turn with no interim time segments.

I like hfarrish's idea of making attacking easier for the Soviets but increasing the losses for doing so.

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(in reply to Michael T)

Post #: 99

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