RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes?

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RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/19/2015 12:45:55 PM

Petrolhahn

Posts: 9
Joined: 7/18/2015
Status: offline

Dear thewood1

Please also think about it too, the first answer I got from you on this forum (I'll quote you too):
"For goodness sakes...", "come in like a child", "threaten", "pretty poor appreciation".

Why didn't you ask for clarification before shooting at first sight?
English is not my first language, and when I say "xx makes me want to xxx", it's only giving an impression.
Just like when I say "those guys littering everywhere makes ne want to punch them and drag them in their filth". Will I punch them? Well, no.

So, your first post to me leaves the impression of someone who doesn't tolerate any mistake or any opinion you don't approve and in the future I'll be extra careful when I will consider replying to something you post.

My first impression on you was very negative and I tried my best to stay on topic, keeping it diplomatic and clearing any ambiguity when I could (because I never stay locked on first impressions), but you kept pressing on that single point without considering anything else.

I don't want to pollute this thread more, so my next answers will py PM if you need more clarification (of course you'll be welcome to post my replies here if you see it fit).
Again, I don't want to stir troubles, I can communicate maturely, I'm not spoiled, I'm not a child either.
Are we done yet or do you want this to continue?

Regards,
P

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 31

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/19/2015 12:51:19 PM

Petrolhahn

Posts: 9
Joined: 7/18/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExNusquam

Also, consider setting up prosecution zones for your aircraft if they are on AAW patrols, so you can control where they will prosecute targets. That way they won't chase targets across the map and blunder into SAM zones.

What if the patrol zone is bigger than prosecution zone?
Would the correct walkaround be to set the patrol zone AND the prosecution zone at stand-off range of any known threat, from the attaking vector?
I didn't find how to set up a no-go zone, that'd be helpful to force the fighters to go around.
Thanks

< Message edited by Petrolhahn -- 7/19/2015 1:52:32 PM >

(in reply to ExNusquam)

Post #: 32

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/19/2015 1:12:21 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

The negative goes both ways...I repeat...go back and read your first post. Is that the posting style we can expect from you. Every time you don't agree with how something works, you threaten to now play the game. If you don't mean what you write can you from now on specify what we should believe. It will help a pot with determining if you are serious or not.

btw, page 103 in the manual. Took me all of 15 seconds to find it.

(in reply to Petrolhahn)

Post #: 33

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/19/2015 1:26:32 PM

Petrolhahn

Posts: 9
Joined: 7/18/2015
Status: offline

Ah thanks, I didn't find it on first read. So those zones are called "No Navigation Zones".
Edit: I was more looking for per-mission no-go zones, those will required to be removed before I can send in the strikers.

< Message edited by Petrolhahn -- 7/19/2015 2:36:50 PM >

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Post #: 34

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/19/2015 1:37:07 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

Another minute of searching using the convenient search button brought this one up...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3456643&mpage=1&key=navigation%2Czones�

And there were others.

Make sure to check out the video tutorials that have been recently updated.

A word of advice; before coming in and threatening to stop playing the game because "x" feature doesn't work, do a search on the manual, search the forum, play around with the game a little, read the stickied threads, watch the tutorials, and ask how to do something.

This game is a pretty significant investment in time to learn. Some of that time is used to look through the forums and see what questions have been answered.

(in reply to Petrolhahn)

Post #: 35

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/19/2015 2:11:10 PM

ExNusquam

Posts: 513
Joined: 3/4/2014
From: Washington, D.C.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Petrolhahn
What if the patrol zone is bigger than prosecution zone?
Would the correct walkaround be to set the patrol zone AND the prosecution zone at stand-off range of any known threat, from the attaking vector?

I'm not sure why you'd ever want a patrol zone bigger than the prosecution zone. I'll usually use a pair of ref points for the patrol zone, with a larger area for the prosecution zone; usually overlapping significantly with the neighboring CAPS.

Also; I just thought of this, at least as it pertains to ASW helos - WRA can be set up so that CAP won't go after helos automatically.

Mega-FAQ on Prosecution zones: http://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=2920#327

(in reply to Petrolhahn)

Post #: 36

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/20/2015 12:44:57 AM

Petrolhahn

Posts: 9
Joined: 7/18/2015
Status: offline

You're right I got the terms wrong, there's a lot to learn, thanks.
I'll look for specific tutorials about this,

(in reply to ExNusquam)

Post #: 37

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/20/2015 6:15:24 PM

Tomcat84

Posts: 1952
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline

Welcome to the forums Petrolhahn!

I've built you an example scenario to demonstrate some of the concepts you can use. Even though I am personally a notorious micromanager (no computer can be smarter than me! haha) I have put together something to show you what is possible if you really do want to be hands off while the computer units start running.

What you'll see in this scenario is the following:
- you have a single US aircraft carrier with some patrols airborne.
- There is some targets to the east on land with some SAMs protecting them. Fortunately, there is an exploitable gap in the SAM belt (how convenient

) and I have set up two no-nav zones around the SAMs.
- There is an enemy surface ship to the west and 2 ships (1 carrier) to the south.

Once you hit play you'll see that the Strike mission (using the auto planner) plots its way around the SAMs through the no navigation zones.
Also, the patrol to the west has a prosecution area to stay clear of the SAMs of the western ship. Once something enters its prosecution area it will engage it.
The patrol to the south has a prosecution area that actually extends into the ships SAM range, because the carrier is a bigger threat so we do want to engage its aircraft sooner. But we dont care about helicopters so the WRA for that patrol is set to not engage helos.

When that starts playing you'll see the ship in the west launch two helos. One goes for a stroll in SAM range, the other comes out of it. Watch what happens :)
The ships to the south launch a helicopter but even though it is gonna go well into prosecution zone the south patrol does not care about it.
After about fifteen minutes the carrier launches a flight of Flankers though in which the south patrol will certainly be interested :)

Hope you can use this to see how some of the stuff works and get a better understanding! If it raises any questions feel free to ask.

Attachment (1)

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My Scenarios and Tutorials for Command

(Scenarios focus on air-warfare :) )

(in reply to Petrolhahn)

Post #: 38

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/20/2015 7:15:48 PM

mercho

Posts: 78
Joined: 7/6/2011
From: Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
Status: offline

Hi Tomcat84,

now that is really helpful and is the way of helping new players of this complex game. Other persons in this threat here should take a look and ask themselves what is more helpful.Taking their time and setting up maybe a small scenario like this, or over and over again have nothing better to do as welcoming new members by pointing to the forum search function... well everyone like he want's ;-)))

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Eine von einem L�wen gef�hrte Armee von Rehen ist gef�hrlicher als eine von einem Reh gef�hrte Armee von L�wen.

An army of deers led by a lion is more dangerous than an army of lions led by a deer. (Plutarch AD 46 � AD 120)

(in reply to Tomcat84)

Post #: 39

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/20/2015 7:44:52 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
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Note that the search function gets pointed out with links to those searches...teaching a fish.

btw, I have no issue with people asking for help...just don't be a d**k about it.

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Post #: 40

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/20/2015 7:52:19 PM

mercho

Posts: 78
Joined: 7/6/2011
From: Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
Status: offline

Exactly the answer expected.

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Post #: 41

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/20/2015 8:00:04 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

Good...maybe someone learned something from it.

(in reply to mercho)

Post #: 42

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/20/2015 8:45:48 PM

mercho

Posts: 78
Joined: 7/6/2011
From: Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
Status: offline

Yeah let's hope someone learned something. If not, the stage is your's. In the end we are all here because we love this wonderful game ;-)

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Post #: 43

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/22/2015 2:32:55 AM

Petrolhahn

Posts: 9
Joined: 7/18/2015
Status: offline

Thanks for the support, I'll try your scenario when I have the time and keep you posted.

Right now I mostly played on the first tutorial scenario and I always set my attack zones wrong, even my SEAD aircaft are finishing as SAM fodder (with the JAM/AWACS supports in the air at the same time, at stand-off range).

(in reply to Tomcat84)

Post #: 44

RE: Make fighters stay out of SAM envelopes? - 7/29/2015 1:08:33 AM

Petrolhahn

Posts: 9
Joined: 7/18/2015
Status: offline

Hi Tomcat84,

A little feedback for you:
I carefuly watched your tutorial scenario, I liked the way you used the zones.
Most tutorials I watched in video were using direct unit orders.
While this might be more efficient I prefer refining the planning and watch the execution of the missions unfold without interfering, so for now I'll try to work with the zone until I manage to get minimal losses for my flights.

Cheers,
P

(in reply to Tomcat84)

Post #: 45