New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

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New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/20/2013 2:54:04 PM

bsq

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Here is an early release of my scenario - The Big Stick

It is a 'what if' scenario based upon how events occuring in Syria over the past year might have played out in early 2014.

The Syrian AD network is modelled using the excellent resource found at http://geimint.blogspot.co.uk/2008/06/worldwide-sam-site-overview.html as well as imagery from GMAP.net and Google Earth (on to which the kmz file from the blog was overlaid).

The Syrian AOB is taken from wikipedia.

On the Coalition side, the composition of the naval groups is as accurate as I can manage using the internet resources and the composite air wings are made in the same vein.

The events are not yet fully scripted as I am still waiting for some more logical operators in the Event Engine, which I am hoping are on their way.

It is currently only playable from the Coalition side, I will get round to scripting the Coalition missions and events, but that may not be until January, at which point Syria will be playable too. Russia and Israel are bystanders right now, although the Russian forces serve a purpose in this early release.

I am looking for glaring bugs that will cause me to go back to the drawing board, rather than tiny tweaks (which I am adding all the time regardless). So if, for example, the Syrian Air Force does not come out to play at all, as it should, then tell me. However, if Syrian CAP keeps crashing or Coalition CAP for that matter - I know, it has been reported and will be fixed by the Devs when they have time.

There are a lot of units in the scenario and a lot of them hit the sensor modelling, as you would expect with a modelled IADS in a country like Syria.

If the AI does dumb stuff - let me know, I will see if it is because I have told it to do dumb stuff or whether it is something else. If you run out of weapons, let me know, I may add more, but then again I may not as you are not supposed to be levelling Syria. If Syria stops fighting back let me know, almost certainly I will add weapons to stop this from occurring, even if it is only to get around the profligacy of the AI with SAM's.

File Updated 7 Jan 14 - includes B483

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by bsq -- 1/7/2014 5:28:38 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/20/2013 3:47:24 PM

Tomcat84

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will fire it up!

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/20/2013 4:09:20 PM

Tomcat84

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I know you said no minor tweak comments but I can't resist:

- I got excited when I read what countries were in the brief but then I found only the dumb navy is participating, no Dutch F-16s. Probably a correct estimate of what our politics would decide though so can't really blame you lol.
- looking at the OOB I found skinny 1 hanging out in the states. Maybe put him on a separate allied side unless it doesn't matter to you that I get an idea of what might happen.
- no maintenance issues anywhere. Don't know if that's what you want to do or not especially with all the fighters.
- did you consider basing anything out of Jordan and the Persian gulf area? Seemed like it wasn't entirely impossible last year: http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130828/NEWS08/308280041/AF-assets-could-called-expected-Syrian-strike
- lastly (before I start playing): where are my Raptors? I could use them against this opponent lol

Will now start playing so I can actually look for the kind of comments you asked for (sorry lol)

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/20/2013 4:59:36 PM

bsq

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Sorry about the lack of Dutch F-16's, I am sure I can replace some of the USAF aircraft with a flight or two at a future build.
With the Skinny, I take the point. But where ever I put him in whichever side, you'll see him... I dont have the event fully scripted yet, its just something I thought might be interesting. Even if you do know whats happening, I think I can make the resulting sub-plot enough of a challenge.
As for maintenance, that's something to look at, but I guess the CAG's/CC's beat up on maintenance and had everything servicable for the push - I may put some delays in but I see no point of having units on the map and not available (because it just adds overhead to the AI). Now if there was a way via events to alter their status to available and simulate a fix, then that would be ideal.
Not basing out of Jordan, making Lebanon a no go as well as Turkey and Israel was a deliberate action on my part. I built the IADS starting with the Tartus area and I wanted the player to be limited on his ingress and egress routes or it would all be too easy.
You have a pair of B-2A's - what more do you want

- again no Raptors was a deliberate decision on my part, again you dont want it too easy.

And any comments are truly welcome, it's my first go at a proper scenario and it has been beating up on the AI to the point where I am sure the Devs are fed up with seeing it attached to a fault/bug report...

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/20/2013 8:16:39 PM

Tomcat84

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First observations:
- the Syrian AF once they go airborne (very nice touch I really liked that trigger) turns west en masse to go kamikaze on my RC-135, E-3 etc even though nothing else has really begun from my end. This is cause they are set to investigate outside patrol area. However if you unstick that they won't range very far. This is one of the main things I'd like to see changed, the ability to set a patrol leg/area and a commit area / range along with it.

Idea I just had and tested that seems to work: make a two point support mission and set engage opportunity targets to yes. Fighters will commit at about twice their max weapon range. So the fulcrum a around 100, the cloggers around 50 and the fishbeds not until ten.

The previous problem also causes the Damascus area fighters, who desperately want to engage my HVAAs west of Crete, to either get stuck in the Lebanon no fly zone borders or to flow south to go around it, pissing off Israel and triggering a rain of patriots.

Other things from taking a look at the events:
- if I'm reading it right there is no way the SA-20s won't deploy since the time trigger will always fire? What I was expecting was that you would put a unit remains in area or a unit enters area (with the time for deployment on it) on the targets you want taken out. If they aren't taken out they remain in the area or "enter" the area and fire the sa20 teleport. If they are destroyed then it shouldn't fire (I think)

Also: I noticed your cap lands etc actions. Those will only partially work I think. On mission deactivation the flights will not RTB but instead I think they will loiter indefinitely, at least until bingo, which could be a long time if close to base and it happens to fire just after a new flight comes on station. We need an "unit RTB" action. I have requested it but not yet :)

Hope these observations help you!

Also I am interested in how you will setup the undetected mobile SAMs like SA-17 etc. I'm not sure if there is a good way to have not just be blind and not just be radiating all day. Only idea I had so far was to keep them far away FCR on and teleport in when coalition airplane enters nearby area

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/20/2013 9:37:41 PM

bsq

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomcat84

First observations:
- the Syrian AF once they go airborne (very nice touch I really liked that trigger) turns west en masse to go kamikaze on my RC-135, E-3 etc even though nothing else has really begun from my end. This is cause they are set to investigate outside patrol area. However if you unstick that they won't range very far. This is one of the main things I'd like to see changed, the ability to set a patrol leg/area and a commit area / range along with it.

Oops, saw that when I tested those missions a while back and forgot to fix it - so that will get done - hopefully they will be able to implement commit areas or ranges.

quote:

Idea I just had and tested that seems to work: make a two point support mission and set engage opportunity targets to yes. Fighters will commit at about twice their max weapon range. So the fulcrum a around 100, the cloggers around 50 and the fishbeds not until ten.

Was trying to simulate the layered/zoned model of RL russian styled IADS, but I can see how what you suggest would also work.

quote:

The previous problem also causes the Damascus area fighters, who desperately want to engage my HVAAs west of Crete, to either get stuck in the Lebanon no fly zone borders or to flow south to go around it, pissing off Israel and triggering a rain of patriots.

Yep those Israelis don't play nice now do they - may need to turn them off or at least down until I can script the reason I put them in there.

quote:

Other things from taking a look at the events:
- if I'm reading it right there is no way the SA-20s won't deploy since the time trigger will always fire? What I was expecting was that you would put a unit remains in area or a unit enters area (with the time for deployment on it) on the targets you want taken out. If they aren't taken out they remain in the area or "enter" the area and fire the sa20 teleport. If they are destroyed then it shouldn't fire (I think)

Was thinking about having one event at 100% and the other with a time spread which can exceed the end time of the scenario. If you take out the delivery boy, big brother off shore will be scripted to do something along with a Ftr Regt and the PLARK lurking elsewhere. I guess the only way not to have to 20's deploy is if I do the random time thing and the player doesnt start WW3.

quote:

Also: I noticed your cap lands etc actions. Those will only partially work I think. On mission deactivation the flights will not RTB but instead I think they will loiter indefinitely, at least until bingo, which could be a long time if close to base and it happens to fire just after a new flight comes on station. We need an "unit RTB" action. I have requested it but not yet :)

This was the best I could manage. I understood the limits, but didn't want the cap down too early if they were already at BINGO. Agree with the RTB - its something a unit can do, so should be easy enough to script (I would have thought)

quote:

Hope these observations help you!

Also I am interested in how you will setup the undetected mobile SAMs like SA-17 etc. I'm not sure if there is a good way to have not just be blind and not just be radiating all day. Only idea I had so far was to keep them far away FCR on and teleport in when coalition airplane enters nearby area

They sort of work now, but I may need to keep the TAR's seperate or it will force the TTR and Illuminators on too. I was toying with the idea of dividing airspace into zones, set at about 1.5 WEZ for any given system and then light them up at that point. The alternative is to have 2 different types of zone, 1 at 1.5 WEZ for short range systems, the other set at about 0.9 of the WEZ for the more lethal systems (thus limiting avoidance options for TAC Air). Now if we had the ability to define a Reference Point and a radius, well there you go, that would also work, as would a mission that said if a unit comes within a given range then light up...

Your observations are greatly appreciated and give me food for thought and things to fix

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Post #: 6

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/21/2013 12:13:15 AM

bsq

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Update File

Fixed CAP behaviour.
Added outer zone to trigger Strat Sam activity

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/21/2013 11:39:16 AM

Gunner98

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Downloading now and will give it a try today.

B

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/21/2013 1:19:35 PM

Gunner98

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Initial thoughts:

Very nice mix of forces available, can't wait to dig into it.

I believe RAF Fairford was closed in Sep 2010, you may want to consider moving the heavies to Lakenheath, Mildenhall or Croughton.

Loadouts, very few A/C are loaded with anything at the start of the game. I understand the desire to have the players develop a plan and decide their own loadouts but would suggest that the single loadout support A/C - E3's, Rivet Joint, J-STARS & tankers start either ready or in reserve.

Now for the game...

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/21/2013 7:03:57 PM

Gunner98

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Great game,

Ran into an issue when I launched the AGM-86Ds from the B-52's. Game slowed down significantly, I'll try and play through but I've got a bit of time with a 6000ms pulse time on 1 second time compression

. A couple of observations.

In the brief you mentioned a Canadian contingent, couldn't find them, probable commitment would be a City class FFG and perhaps a 6 pack of F-18As.

The ammo bunker adjacent to Akrotiri is not grouped with the base. Not sure you need it with a single unit airfield, as long as the munitions stay below a count of 10,000, I think your OK with the internal magazine in the airfield.

Marker cities would be nice to refer to. You mention several places in the brief but its a bit of a hunt & guess where exactly you mean.

The Russian ships went Hostile on me pretty quick. It may be that I caught one of the LSTs in my target planning of the port, not sure. The three LSTs took collateral damage when the TLAMs swacked the port so I imagine I should lose points for that. Don't think it happened but you may wish to put a 'unit is damaged' event in to dissuade players from doing that. It was sloppy play on my part.

Having fun so far and if I can get this Buff strike out of the way I'll be able to continue.

B

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/21/2013 7:44:05 PM

Tomcat84

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I thought the same thing with the ammo bunker initially but I think it is grouped but the scen is just saved in unit view. Now I'm beginning to doubt myself again though and if can't check right now lol

Agreed on the having to figure out where the targets are. But some imagery in the final brief could serve as polish to fix that

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/21/2013 9:09:40 PM

bsq

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomcat84

I thought the same thing with the ammo bunker initially but I think it is grouped but the scen is just saved in unit view. Now I'm beginning to doubt myself again though and if can't check right now lol

Agreed on the having to figure out where the targets are. But some imagery in the final brief could serve as polish to fix that

The bunker is grouped, the reason is that with the huge mix of aircraft at Akrotiri and the need to provide the player with options, meant I could no longer add 0/10000 weapons and edit the numbers - not a game bug I am sure but a limit I crossed without realising.

Indeed I have imagery and using it, if you look carefully, the target list stands right out. I tried to set them so you have to detect them, your SAR/GMTI aircraft seem to do a good job of this.

You have several hours before dawn on day 1, giving you time to do several things including target development. You have over two days to take down these targets.

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/21/2013 9:17:29 PM

bsq

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Great game,

Ran into an issue when I launched the AGM-86Ds from the B-52's. Game slowed down significantly, I'll try and play through but I've got a bit of time with a 6000ms pulse time on 1 second time compression . A couple of observations.

Yep, they really hit the AI.

quote:

In the brief you mentioned a Canadian contingent, couldn't find them, probable commitment would be a City class FFG and perhaps a 6 pack of F-18As.

The City class just added a FFG with no offensive capes - so I took it out, was contemplating adding a flight of F-18As and a tanker.

quote:

The ammo bunker adjacent to Akrotiri is not grouped with the base. Not sure you need it with a single unit airfield, as long as the munitions stay below a count of 10,000, I think your OK with the internal magazine in the airfield.

See the comment above, I hit a limit and could not resolve it - it is grouped by the way.

quote:

Marker cities would be nice to refer to. You mention several places in the brief but its a bit of a hunt & guess where exactly you mean.

Will add these - a good point - I know the area very well but should not make assumption that every one else does

quote:

The Russian ships went Hostile on me pretty quick. It may be that I caught one of the LSTs in my target planning of the port, not sure. The three LSTs took collateral damage when the TLAMs swacked the port so I imagine I should lose points for that. Don't think it happened but you may wish to put a 'unit is damaged' event in to dissuade players from doing that. It was sloppy play on my part.

You must have sunk one of the LST's - if you just pepper them, they get busy unloading

You dont lose points for hitting the Russians it just gets a lot harder

quote:

Having fun so far and if I can get this Buff strike out of the way I'll be able to continue.

B

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Post #: 13

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/21/2013 9:19:16 PM

bsq

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Initial thoughts:

Very nice mix of forces available, can't wait to dig into it.

I believe RAF Fairford was closed in Sep 2010, you may want to consider moving the heavies to Lakenheath, Mildenhall or Croughton.

Loadouts, very few A/C are loaded with anything at the start of the game. I understand the desire to have the players develop a plan and decide their own loadouts but would suggest that the single loadout support A/C - E3's, Rivet Joint, J-STARS & tankers start either ready or in reserve.

Now for the game...

Fairford is on 'Care and Maintenance' posture and can be reactivated in 48 hours - it still has one of the longest runways in the UK and is the only one that B-52's can operate from with a full load.

As for the support AC, you can get them loaded in 30 minutes, but I do take your point

< Message edited by bsq -- 12/22/2013 8:53:59 AM >

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/21/2013 10:28:18 PM

Tomcat84

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One thing I forgot to mention: while I liked having to loadout my strikers, and building a picture of what was going on, it seemed semi odd that right by the time I was ready to put some strikes in it was becoming daylight. I guess that's also to make it more challenging with the Syrian Air Force? Cause I would expect a real raid to start at night.

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/22/2013 2:57:25 AM

Gunner98

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About 7 hours into the game, most of the IADS in the North is down, those bunkers are tough though. I used the TLAMs to take down the costal defence stuff then hit the deep AD with the B-2s and took a swipe at the northern bunkers with the B-52s. A heavy ftr sweep has kept a lid on the Migs and am just doing a clean up sweep with A-10s using Mavericks to get rid of some radars that survived the TLAM swarm. Next in are the HARM/ALARM loaded boys and then the Strike eagles and the rest.

Couple more observations:
-CAP came up very late, I already had quite a fighter sweep in country and was within short missile range when the Mig-21s started to pop up from Hamah. A few of the Migs went to the South and got hit by the Israeli Patriots, overall the CAP is not much of a challenge at all, more of a nuisance to keep down while my strikes come in.
-The two Task Gps are sitting idle, didn't notice at first but you may wish to give them a plotted course and speed at the start.
-There is an ASW Helo hovering around Tiyas air base, not sure what its doing there
-You may wish to posture the Israelis as neutral to the coalition, their patriots shot down a couple TLAMs that I had going to take retribution on one of the SA-2 sites in the south
-I was hitting that bloody SA-2 site because it rolled a 1 on a PH of 2% and hit a Hornet!! 50VP's ouch!
-I noted the timing as well, seems a bit odd that the B-2 arrive over the target area at dawn, but it does make the Syrian AF at least flyable.
-The AD units hidden in with the bunkers were a nasty surprise and took down a few AGM-86s, it cost me an A-10 which I prematurely sent in to clean it out - another 50 points!
-The SA-20s on the coast were also a good surprise, but not too effective, perhaps because most of the radars were down by the time they popped up
-There is a SAM system (Al-Hamidiyah SA-2) SE of the port which seems to be at a negative altitude. Perhaps that's the way its supposed to be - my TLAMS cannot target it because it Alt is -170ft. Nice touch if its by design

I did sink and LST, and the other two are burning hulks, collateral damage from TLAMS, and the Slave class CG is burning up my TLAMs as they are inbound. Put a Nav-Zone around it to keep my A/C from straying too close.
Wouldn't sweet the Canadian content, got my hopes up with the brief though

I didn't realize Fairford was on a rapid reactivation posture. Managed to get a last run into the commissary just before it closed, after that we had to drive all the way to Lakenheath to get a decent steak

Good scenario so far, thanks

B

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/22/2013 7:48:58 AM

bsq

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Most of the timings are by design. It starts at 0000 GMT because that is 1900 EST and the UN have gone home for the weekend

. It would be 'bad form' for the B-2A's to be in the air before the scenario starts

and I loaded them out such that they are a stand off attack platform and I didnt intend them to mix it with the Sy AF.

The Sy AF is designed to fly that way. They are a daylight only airforce and at night the reliance is on the SAM's.

The event and posture scripting with the Israelis is problematic right now and I am considering taking the out or blinding them until they can be fixed.

What you are seeing with the SAMs currently is unrealistic for the following reasons (some are my fault, some are the game not WAD - but already reported)

1. The TLAM area of effect is too great - if it hits a revetted launcher it takes out the entire site - not WAD and reported to Devs
2. You'll be finding, no doubt that HARMs are destroying VHF radars - not realistic - not reported but I will do.
3. I have hardly any SA-8s in the scenario - I'll soon fix that

4. There are only a few STRELA-10 SAMs, again to be fixed.
4. I don't have enough Pantsyrs and those I do don't have reloads - again to be fixed.
5. The SAM's dont have enough reloads - to be fixed
6. The event engine and mission editor does not give me options to better hide the TacSAM units which is a real shame as that would really add to the challenge. I know I can put them in antartica and teleport them, but the positions would be off and thats a lot of reference points to place.

Was thinking of having the point defence SAMS patrol the bunker areas, that might make things interesting. Could do the same with all of the TACSAM units but I would want to work out the road/track systems in the area IRL first and thats a lot of work.

< Message edited by bsq -- 12/22/2013 2:01:04 PM >

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Post #: 17

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/22/2013 7:53:08 AM

bsq

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomcat84

One thing I forgot to mention: while I liked having to loadout my strikers, and building a picture of what was going on, it seemed semi odd that right by the time I was ready to put some strikes in it was becoming daylight. I guess that's also to make it more challenging with the Syrian Air Force? Cause I would expect a real raid to start at night.

Well there you go, you have two options, you can dive straight in and take your chances or you can use the time during day one to take out some of the nastier systems and then have 2 nights to do the rest, by which time you will have a fuller picture of what is going on in country.

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/22/2013 9:57:11 AM

Tomcat84

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True, the UN does not work at my convenience, good point :)
My next run I will prepare and build up my info but probably just lay low the while day before unleashing my plan

Couldn't really wait last time after the MiGs all turned west though haha

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Post #: 19

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/22/2013 2:50:38 PM

bsq

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City markers added
More ADA added for Syria
Moving land targets added to confuse GMTI
Some batteries now have larger magazines
CF units added

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Post #: 20

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/22/2013 7:39:37 PM

CV32

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bsq
Not basing out of Jordan, making Lebanon a no go as well as Turkey and Israel was a deliberate action on my part.

My feeling on this is that making Lebanon a 'no go' not only unduly complicates the scenario, but it would likely not form a barrier to either side in the event of a real armed conflict. Neither side would likely care much about Lebanese opposition to intrusions upon their airspace, nor could Lebanon do anything about it.

Other surrounding neighbors - Turkey, Israel, Jordan - sure, there are good reasons politically to keep them out of the fray.

Although I was a bit surprised to see a Patriot PAC-2 engaging my TLAM without having entered Turkish airspace.

< Message edited by CV32 -- 12/22/2013 8:40:05 PM >

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Post #: 21

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/22/2013 8:47:20 PM

bsq

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CV32

My feeling on this is that making Lebanon a 'no go' not only unduly complicates the scenario, but it would likely not form a barrier to either side in the event of a real armed conflict. Neither side would likely care much about Lebanese opposition to intrusions upon their airspace, nor could Lebanon do anything about it.

Other surrounding neighbors - Turkey, Israel, Jordan - sure, there are good reasons politically to keep them out of the fray.

Although I was a bit surprised to see a Patriot PAC-2 engaging my TLAM without having entered Turkish airspace.

Very true, they don't have the 'teeth' to make their airspace a no fly zone - but one of their neighbours does...

Its a very realistic constraint and you only have to go the long way round for one of the 'optional' targets, which I dont think you need to win. This is not about destroying Syria, this is about a mission with very specific aims and goals (again as a lot of these interventions are IRL) and not being able to fly in Lebanon should not make a difference.

I am still looking at the reasons why the PAC-2 engages the TLAM's, they shouldn't given the postures, unless of course it flew through Israel, in which case I guess the AI thought it shouldnt be there

.

< Message edited by bsq -- 12/23/2013 10:30:30 AM >

(in reply to CV32)

Post #: 22

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/23/2013 9:55:30 AM

Gunner98

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline

Re-started with your new update last night. Very nice, pulled my CAP and support missions back to eastern Cyprus just before I went hot - glad I did, missile were looking for me all the way to the Larnica area, no hits but I had my tankers and E-3s heading West with the sun!
-Those new SAMs are doing quite well - especially the SA-22 Greyhounds, they are a nasty piece of work and chewed up quite a few TLAMS!
-Ammo Bunker (mountain) - now that's just cruel

-A very small point, but when you save your next version you might want to scope out to the see a large chunk of the AO, this version starts scoped in on a piece of desert and zoomed in very close.
-I was much more deliberate in my lead-out plan this time, I like the way you make the player chose between Smart and LGB wpns, there are only enough of the really good weapons for about 1 good strike and the player has to decide how many s/he will use in the first strike or how many to save for follow on strikes. Very nice.
-Thought you had reduced my new favorite weapon - Brimstone - but I don't think you did. Possible Issue - When I selected 6xTyphoons to load Brimstone, the dialog told me there were only 4 load outs (bugger

), did the math and it was the Litening Pod that was the critical path, so fine I'll just have to come back for more bombs later. I had 6 Typhoons selected, only 4 load-outs possible, so I clicked OK, expecting only 4 to be loaded, but all 6 loaded out fine, even though it told me only 4 were available. I checked the process with some Hornets, selected more A/C than available load-outs (the difference here was it was the actual weapon which was the limiter), and things worked as expected. Not sure if this is working correctly.
-Israeli SAMs still knocking down my TLAMS. Have you played around with the Posturing? Perhaps Israel: Unfriendly to Syria, Friendly to Coalition; Coalition, Neutral to Israel - or something like that?
-Now this one is either very cool - or a problem. I had two waves of TLAM going in, first one hitting the costal targets, second wave on some deeper ones. Now I must stress the L in TLAM. I was very careful not to target any of the ships, some of the flight paths on the first wave came very close however. Sequence of events:
----Russian ships detected and Unknown (Yellow)
----TLAM strike launched, all Syrian units go hostile (Red)
----TLAMs get close enough and detect the Russian ships as Neutral (Green)
----Something happens, perhaps the Ruskies get jumpy with TLAMs flying too close and they go hostile (Red)
----Ivan shoots down a bunch of TLAMS

leaving an SA-2 unit, some radars and perhaps an SA-22 (although I think that comes later), alive and well in the CG Slava's SAM shadow. Cool.
----Second wave of TLAMs is inbound, a good dozen or so heading right past Ivan and the boys - crap

----Before the second wave gets there (and while I watching the Israelis shoot down some TLAMS - crossing shots at 40NM range - impressive) I get a message that I had damaged a Russian Ship! WTF!

----Zoomed up there (I really like the new jump screen functionality), in time to see the SA-2 unit pumping Guidelines into the side of the Slava CG at a high rate of fire!

. My TLAMs are still 10NM out at this time.
----About this time the Event to plop the SA-300s right in that area happens and there is lots going on in the area
----Both the Slava and the Boris Chilikin go down, leaving the AGI and LSTs alone -probably because the SA-2 unit ran out of immediate ammo and was a target in my third wave of TLAMS already inbound.
----This is either very very cool, setting up the coalition to take the blame and Syria involving the Russians in their war

. Or something has gone wrong in the Posture logic

Not sure.
----No need to fly clear of the area this time with the Slava feeding the fish, the AGI and LSTs don't hold any threat to me. (might just sink em for good sport

) So if this is deliberate I would leave the Slava alone and sink the small stuff.

Enjoying the game very much. Thank you

B

< Message edited by Gunner98 -- 12/23/2013 10:57:13 AM >

(in reply to bsq)

Post #: 23

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/23/2013 11:34:26 AM

bsq

Posts: 517
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline

Well much as I would like to claim credit for involving the Russians, this is an issue. Sure if you sink a Russian ship, they go hostile. If you damamge one they just get cross and work a bit harder to get the 20's on shore and you have to damage an LST for that to fire.

These are the postures

Syria - Russia - Friendly
Russia - Syria - Neutral (because otherwise the Slava takes down your TLAMs from the outset)

Of course if the SA's are hitting the TLAMs too close to Moskva and collateral is occuring, then perhaps it is the TLAMs that take the blame? In this case it would be WAD - albeit nothing I have knowingly done...

(in reply to Gunner98)

Post #: 24

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/23/2013 1:44:47 PM

Tomcat84

Posts: 1952
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

-Thought you had reduced my new favorite weapon - Brimstone - but I don't think you did. Possible Issue - When I selected 6xTyphoons to load Brimstone, the dialog told me there were only 4 load outs (bugger ), did the math and it was the Litening Pod that was the critical path, so fine I'll just have to come back for more bombs later. I had 6 Typhoons selected, only 4 load-outs possible, so I clicked OK, expecting only 4 to be loaded, but all 6 loaded out fine, even though it told me only 4 were available. I checked the process with some Hornets, selected more A/C than available load-outs (the difference here was it was the actual weapon which was the limiter), and things worked as expected. Not sure if this is working correctly.

I thought I had a similar issue with the growlers and their jamming pods, 5 jets and it said 3 loadouts but it/ I wasn't counting the pods that were in the load out that was already on the jets, make sense? Can't check right now if that's the case here too. So basically look what the existing typhoon load was and if it has litening pods already. If they were empty then disregard all of this haha

_____________________________

My Scenarios and Tutorials for Command

(Scenarios focus on air-warfare :) )

(in reply to Gunner98)

Post #: 25

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/23/2013 9:13:40 PM

bsq

Posts: 517
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline

Latest update
Modified events as a result of feedback
Added a few more TacSAMs
Added some ADA - but no more SA-22 for now

(in reply to Tomcat84)

Post #: 26

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/24/2013 2:35:47 AM

Gunner98

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline

Ran it for about 11 hrs, couple comments before I fire up your new version.
-Not sure what to do with 'Skinny 1' my first thought was to launch some Helo's in to pick him up but am not sure how that works in game terms. Skinny also fires more than once, was on my way with some MH-60s when an A-10 ran out of fuel 30 miles out of Souda Bay and Skinny teleported. Thoughts: limit Skinny to one time only, or have multiples (not sure how to do that). Some sort of geographical limiter would be good - if an A-10 goes down near Crete, the pilot doesn't need to be rescued in Syria.
-I was confused with the Civilian buildings, are all of the Industrial plants fair targets? Not sure - is it only the CW production facility or are all of the Ammo storage areas around it fair. Perhaps establish the Civilians as another side or label them civilian. I believe that the coalition would have some very specific data on this target.
-The A-10s have pretty short legs, are they at Souda Bay for a reason? Would prefer to change them up with the F-16s in Cyprus. I got caught short and had problems refueling them, not sure why. Also had problems with the Rafales refueling - they kept wanting to fly back into Syria to refuel. Will turn off refueling in the Doctrine next time, more trouble than its worth.
-scoring is pretty rough, one slip and you get slammed hard. I think it works out in the end because there is enough on the map to slam at your leisure, but that takes time. Lose a bunch of A-10s and your toast

. I was thinking as I was dodging Sa-5s with my E-3 and a Tanker that you might want to weight the score with the type of A/C to make it a little less brutal. Say 25 pts for a strike A/C, 75 for a Tanker, 100 for a bomber and 200 for an ISTAR platform, or something like that. Now if a player loses a big boy he really gets nailed, but he might be willing to take a bit of risk with his fast movers.
-Not sure if there is a way of getting those piers without hitting Ivan's LSTs. Will try next time with some hellfire's or mavericks but I think that would be about it, I'll stay away from the port with my TLAMs for sure. BTW, the brief sort of talks about the port facility but seems to make it very optional, and I think there's some decent points in there so you may want to mention something a touch more specific.
-After 11 hours of gameplay, the only thing left on the map were targets, most of them take a lot of punishment. The IADS was down completely, and besides a handful of MiG-23s in the south, no Syrian A/C had flown in a couple hours - I had knocked down about 60 in total, 70 if you include the Helos. So the next 40 odd hours of game time would be spent loading and bombing, not overly stressful. Not sure if there is a way to spruce up the end game a bit. Perhaps another requirement like a SOF insertion and suppressing ground units, maybe a non-combatant evacuation Op (NEO) where the player needs to get ships close into shore and a bunch of bog-hammers show up. Just some thoughts.

Family coming in tomorrow, so I'll have to take a break for a couple of days. Have a good Christmas.

BG

(in reply to bsq)

Post #: 27

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/24/2013 7:47:21 AM

bsq

Posts: 517
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Ran it for about 11 hrs, couple comments before I fire up your new version.
-Not sure what to do with 'Skinny 1' my first thought was to launch some Helo's in to pick him up but am not sure how that works in game terms. Skinny also fires more than once, was on my way with some MH-60s when an A-10 ran out of fuel 30 miles out of Souda Bay and Skinny teleported. Thoughts: limit Skinny to one time only, or have multiples (not sure how to do that). Some sort of geographical limiter would be good - if an A-10 goes down near Crete, the pilot doesn't need to be rescued in Syria.

Skinny event was quite hard to script and I wasn't sure of the logic. I will change it to once only and hope it fires at some point.

quote:

-I was confused with the Civilian buildings, are all of the Industrial plants fair targets? Not sure - is it only the CW production facility or are all of the Ammo storage areas around it fair. Perhaps establish the Civilians as another side or label them civilian. I believe that the coalition would have some very specific data on this target.

Granted, I will get labelling.

quote:

-The A-10s have pretty short legs, are they at Souda Bay for a reason? Would prefer to change them up with the F-16s in Cyprus. I got caught short and had problems refueling them, not sure why. Also had problems with the Rafales refueling - they kept wanting to fly back into Syria to refuel. Will turn off refueling in the Doctrine next time, more trouble than its worth.

May move the A-10's to Cyprus and the F-15's to Souda.

quote:

-scoring is pretty rough, one slip and you get slammed hard. I think it works out in the end because there is enough on the map to slam at your leisure, but that takes time. Lose a bunch of A-10s and your toast . I was thinking as I was dodging Sa-5s with my E-3 and a Tanker that you might want to weight the score with the type of A/C to make it a little less brutal. Say 25 pts for a strike A/C, 75 for a Tanker, 100 for a bomber and 200 for an ISTAR platform, or something like that. Now if a player loses a big boy he really gets nailed, but he might be willing to take a bit of risk with his fast movers.

Point taken and I will look at the scoring, although I might be tempted to hit ISTAR and Bombers for even more points just to make sure you don't take the risks with them.

quote:

-Not sure if there is a way of getting those piers without hitting Ivan's LSTs. Will try next time with some hellfire's or mavericks but I think that would be about it, I'll stay away from the port with my TLAMs for sure. BTW, the brief sort of talks about the port facility but seems to make it very optional, and I think there's some decent points in there so you may want to mention something a touch more specific.

At some point I intended to re-write part of the brief/guidance.

quote:

-After 11 hours of gameplay, the only thing left on the map were targets, most of them take a lot of punishment. The IADS was down completely, and besides a handful of MiG-23s in the south, no Syrian A/C had flown in a couple hours - I had knocked down about 60 in total, 70 if you include the Helos. So the next 40 odd hours of game time would be spent loading and bombing, not overly stressful. Not sure if there is a way to spruce up the end game a bit. Perhaps another requirement like a SOF insertion and suppressing ground units, maybe a non-combatant evacuation Op (NEO) where the player needs to get ships close into shore and a bunch of bog-hammers show up. Just some thoughts.

Said to same to Tomcat84 - if you rush in and dismantle the IADS you will take losses, if you take the first 'day' to do your homework on the IADS and targets and then use the next 2 nights to do the work, it may have a better outcome. I wanted to create a scenario where you couldn't do it all in the first few hours - that seemed unrealistic with a large country like Syria... I have a feeling here that I either didnt model the IADS correctly or the game is too liberal with the blue on red superiority..

quote:

Family coming in tomorrow, so I'll have to take a break for a couple of days. Have a good Christmas.

BG

You too and thanks so much for your time testing this it really is appreiated.

(in reply to Gunner98)

Post #: 28

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/24/2013 8:41:55 AM

Tomcat84

Posts: 1952
Joined: 7/10/2013
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Off the top of my head I'd say one potential discrepancy is due to the old agility impacting PH a lot, which makes SA-2s, 3s and 6s a lot less lethal against F-16s than I would expect in real life. That may be taking a bit out of the punch that Syria's IADS might pack in real life.

_____________________________

My Scenarios and Tutorials for Command

(Scenarios focus on air-warfare :) )

(in reply to bsq)

Post #: 29

RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/24/2013 10:19:11 AM

bsq

Posts: 517
Joined: 1/5/2007
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This is what I would expect too, add to the fact that they seem almost suicidal in the manner they punch the rings and press on regardless - have they never thought to 'lean' (IRL I'd either tear my hair out or pack up and go home - leaving them to it

)

There is now another update.

Fixes/Changes
Zoomed out on save...
Timer delays on about 1/3rd of Coalition Air
Weapon Magazines in Souda and Akrotiri 'fixed'
74 FS now at Akrotiri
492 FS now at Souda
Mix of TLAMs altered
More markers added
Briefing Updated

< Message edited by bsq -- 12/24/2013 12:49:07 PM >

(in reply to Tomcat84)

Post #: 30

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