RE: Does anyone feel the same way about this game?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> RE: Does anyone feel the same way about this game?

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RE: Does anyone feel the same way about this game? - 12/24/2013 12:34:46 PM

pzgndr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
RGW was not so good. AGW is ok but not quite there. Maybe WWIE will hit the mark. I agree WITE is top dog, but its still falling short in many areas. While the level of detail in WITE is the primary motivation for many, for me I would prefer less Micromanagement and more emphasis on a nice clean logistics and combat system. The Schwerpunkt game offers this. But we shall see. GG games seem to get bogged down in too much detail IMO. Detail that does not necessarily add to the game play aspect. I mean do you really need to know exactly how many PzIIF's are in each Pz Div?

I agree. Not mentioned was Schwerpunkt's latest Middle East game that introduced a new interface and simplified the supply rules from AGW (which got a bit too complicated.) Also, the combat system is now using more odds-based modifiers to make large and small battles more consistent. WWII-E should be much more playable like the boardgames of yesteryear. Which, in retrospect, wargames like AH's Russian Campaign and Russian Front were pretty fun to play for both sides for the entire duration of the conlflict 1941-1945. It never ever bothered us to not know how many PzIIFs were in each Pz Div.

(in reply to Michael T)

Post #: 31

RE: Does anyone feel the same way about this game? - 12/24/2013 1:50:49 PM

swkuh

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Joined: 10/5/2009
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Game has microscopic detail in most things and that is the bane of the game, but also, its pleasure. What's needed is help to control details through some sort of player process.

Maybe there could be a lottery for how high v1.x will go before v2.0 is released. Proceeds to the developers from appreciative players.

Hope that v2.0 is released with best printed manual possible and less issues than 1.x.

(in reply to timmyab)

Post #: 32

RE: Does anyone feel the same way about this game? - 12/24/2013 3:05:04 PM

pz501

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Joined: 10/1/2003
From: Southern Pennsylvania
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I've taken a look at Schwerpunkt site, and it looks like he (Ron Dockal) has learned a lot over the years. His latest seems to be improved in every way, with what looks like a simple, and elegant system of play and combat compared to his earlier work. I've also read some of his updates on the Wargamer site, and if things continue the way they are, this just might be what I'm looking for.

I suppose what I've really wanted all along is a "serious" simulation at Division/Brigade level with 10-20km map scale and weekly turns. I really don't (after thinking about it) need every 105mm howitzer, or AFV accounted for, but would like to be able to attach support units to individual divisions, etc. Leaders seem to be too much, but higher HQ units with command functions would be good. A simpler production/replacement routine would be nice as well (maybe limited to spending industrial, personnel, and fuel points?).

John Tiller, as someone else mentioned, looked as if he was headed in this direction when he started his "WW II in Europe" series, but that hasn't gotten any attention or updating in a long while, and only 2 titles have appeared. He seems to be devoting most of his time now to mobile devices, and government contracts.

Maybe Ron at Schwerpunkt will have just the right thing.

WiTE II is also supposed to be much improved, and hopefully a clean sheet of paper design approach has been adopted.

(in reply to pzgndr)

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RE: Does anyone feel the same way about this game? - 12/24/2013 7:34:41 PM

Michael T

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From: Queensland, Australia.
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John Tillers WWIE had tremendous promise. I actually built a War In the Desert CG that worked (with a little bit of manual bookkeeping). I also hacked in to the code and created a Barbarossa AGS game as 'War on the Southern Front' provided enough of southern Russia on the map to create such a scenario. I was actually recruited to help design the next module which was going to be North Western Europe 1944 and there were lots of new features planned. But they decided to build a Arab-Israeli game which did not really interest me. And since then nothing has occurred. The system is dead, sadly.

FWIW I should point out 10Km per hex works much better at Divisional scale than 10 miles per hex like WITE. Also First to Fight is a very nice game of France 1940.

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RE: Does anyone feel the same way about this game? - 12/24/2013 7:57:18 PM

Flaviusx

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The last really good Arab-Israeli computer wargame that I played was Norm Koger's Conflict: Middle East...made way back in 1991.

Seems to me like the subject is overdue for a fresh treatment.

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RE: Does anyone feel the same way about this game? - 12/24/2013 9:06:29 PM

pz501

Posts: 180
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From: Southern Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

John Tillers WWIE had tremendous promise. I actually built a War In the Desert CG that worked (with a little bit of manual bookkeeping). I also hacked in to the code and created a Barbarossa AGS game as 'War on the Southern Front' provided enough of southern Russia on the map to create such a scenario. I was actually recruited to help design the next module which was going to be North Western Europe 1944 and there were lots of new features planned. But they decided to build a Arab-Israeli game which did not really interest me. And since then nothing has occurred. The system is dead, sadly.

FWIW I should point out 10Km per hex works much better at Divisional scale than 10 miles per hex like WITE. Also First to Fight is a very nice game of France 1940.

It must have been you then, who years back had commented on the "Blitz" boards that the series was possible to mod. I vaguely remember Glenn Saunders asking you not to do anything, or share the knowledge.

Sad to hear that the series is dead though. Last I knew, Wig Graves had lost a lot of research material, but claims were still being made that the series was alive. Glad you've cleared that up. I remember seeing shots of the entire map, and being frustrated when Southern Front appeared with a good portion of it's map being made "unplayable". Sort of reminds me of when "France '14" came out, and I asked via email if its map couldn't be adopted to "France '40" in order to create an almost full scale Fall Gelb scenario....I never did get a response from anyone.

HPS/Tiller appear to be at a standstill now beyond mobile apps, and few unknown projects. Communications have never been their strong suit, and the lack of a dedicated forum on their websites doesn't help either. Even Glenn Saunders seems to have disappeared without trace from the "Blitz". Here, even though Gary never comments (it's not his style if remember correctly), Joel does, and Erik appears from time to time. A much better approach.

Beyond what 2x3 and Schwerpunkt have going on in development right now, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot to look forward to. Even Decision Games "Computer War in Europe" looks to have ceased all development. All that was needed there was just a bit more patching, and a full, complete, editor to use. No one wanted or needed an AI either. A big, simple, fun game none the less.

(in reply to Michael T)

Post #: 36

RE: Does anyone feel the same way about this game? - 12/24/2013 10:29:46 PM

Gabriel B.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

Jan 1 1942 5.7 million plus losses of all type 3.1 million = 8.8 million. Actual losses by the Soviets in the first two quarters of 1941 4.4 million from G. I. Krivosheev. Soviet Casualties and Combat Losses W. Victor Madeja in his The Russo-German War says the Soviets had 6.9 million men in December 1941, though the book is from 1987 there may be a better number out there. 6.9 million men plus 4.4 million casualties is 11.3 million. Net by December 1941 2.5 million Russians are missing. Another way of looking at it, is if the Russian player takes historical casualties he will end 1941 with an army of 4.4 million, instead of the historical army of 6.9 million.

Defectors .
Seriously,
"keeping in mind the losses, the red army should have in total 14,197,000 men .
In fact, acording to the data of the statistical evidence ofice, as of 1st of march 1942 the actual number is 9,315,000."
Col. Efremov, 1 MAY 1942 publised in : S.N MIHAILEV book : LIUDSKIE POTERI V VELIKOI OTCESTVENOVOI VOINE 1941-1945 g
statisticeskoe issledovanie . ( human losses in the greath patriotic war of 1941-1945)
reference TSAMO (CENTRAL MILITARY ARCHIVES ) F 14 ,OPIS 113, FOLDER 1, FF 228-238 .

No comment on almost 5 milion men, 4,882, 000 to be exact, missing .

Must be those 5 million called up in July alone which from whatever reason did not bother to show up.

< Message edited by Gabriel B. -- 12/24/2013 11:34:54 PM >

(in reply to Tom Hunter)

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RE: Does anyone feel the same way about this game? - 12/24/2013 11:21:04 PM

Michael T

Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline

quote:

It must have been you then, who years back had commented on the "Blitz" boards that the series was possible to mod

Yes that was me. I got kicked out because I exposed a cheat. I hacked open his file and exposed him. They did not like that. Anyway I had built a France 44 mod from the TFB game. But they got me to pull it down.

From the look of the JTS site it seems they are all about modding all their existing titles in to mobile apps and nothing else.

Ron's game holds a lot of promise.

< Message edited by Michael T -- 12/25/2013 12:21:17 AM >

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Post #: 38