First months of the war?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> First months of the war?

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First months of the war? - 12/24/2013 3:45:49 AM

Txema

Posts: 233
Joined: 5/9/2003
From: Basque Country
Status: offline

Is WitE now (patch .12) a good simulation of the first months of the war, let's say until the end of December 1941?

What is your opinion on how WitE simulates that period of the war with the latest beta patch?

Thanks for your help !

Txema

Post #: 1

RE: First months of the war? - 12/24/2013 7:25:31 AM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Txema

Is WitE now (patch .12) a good simulation of the first months of the war, let's say until the end of December 1941?

What is your opinion on how WitE simulates that period of the war with the latest beta patch?

Thanks for your help !

Txema

Until 1v1=2v1 is removed its very poor right now.

It is literally an I win button as it is possible for the SHC side to win 54 of 54 battles in July 1941, which is completely unhistorical.

That is vs 1, 2 or even 3 infantry in lt woods.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3492242

If you are playing the AI it is the best, there is nothing close to it in any game.

If your playing a new player vs new player the game is amazing.

Only the expert players ( Russian side ) know how to push the I win button and I expect seeing 2by3 track record on exploits that 1v1=2v1 will be removed as they have removed all the other I win buttons in the past.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/24/2013 8:57:08 AM >

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Txema)

Post #: 2

RE: First months of the war? - 12/24/2013 1:07:53 PM

swkuh

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline

For many reasons, WitE is very good for a broad scale WWII Russia conflict. The fun is not its perfection, but its depth of detail. Pelton's assessment is about right. If you can give the time to make the moves, you get pretty good battle simulations. AI isn't so dumb, either. As much as I need for just fun.

As a game, I've found that the detail takes more time than I want to give to enjoy play. Developers could gen up some improved player processes to speed up turns. This forum has provided some interesting insights to me that have enhanced the fun.

Easy to recommend it to fans of the conflict, either side.

(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 3

RE: First months of the war? - 12/26/2013 12:52:18 AM

GamesaurusRex

Posts: 505
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline

Pelton:

I honestly have no clue as to why you are saying this... From 6/41-6/42, the Russian player is totally outgunned, outmoralled, and completely steamrolled by any German player that knows how to use the German logistics advantage to streak through Russian lines and isolate and neuter the entire Russian army in that period. You have demonstrated this numerous times and posted your AARs to prove it. In fact, without HRs at least in the South to prevent the Lvov Fantasy Steamroll, the Russian side has little chance to survive 1942 or at least is so mauled that a Russian comeback in 1943 is unlikely.

The fact is, there aren't enough combat effective troops in the Russian army early in the game to afford them to attack the Germans to any significant extent. Oh, you can do it, but it is suicide against a competent German player.

< Message edited by GamesaurusRex -- 12/26/2013 1:53:43 AM >

(in reply to swkuh)

Post #: 4

RE: First months of the war? - 12/26/2013 6:47:46 AM

SigUp

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Joined: 11/29/2012
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Gamesaurus, haven't you noticed Pelton's game against sapper? And Bozo's also demonstrated that it works. The combat engine benefits the masses, so even with apparently lower CV you can win battles. I would suggest you ask the better Soviet players for strategies, get a few more games under your belt, before declaring something that's simply not true. Only an inexperienced Soviet player against a top-notch Axis one is going to get steamrolled. All skills being equal on a high level, the Soviet more often than not will manage to stifle the Axis by August 1941. There are more than enough examples of this.

(in reply to GamesaurusRex)

Post #: 5

RE: First months of the war? - 12/26/2013 10:29:01 AM

carlkay58

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline

GR - the Soviets are now capable of building a reserve of higher morale units and then use them to counterattack in the T4 - T6 period. This counterattack can completely stop the Axis for long enough that the Soviets have built another reserve that can be committed to battle and stop another drive. The only place the Soviets can't really stop the Axis is in the south - the terrain is just not there to be able to hold the Axis bottled up for long. This is historical, after all the historic battle of Smolensk went from T3 through T14 in the center, and it was only after MUD that the Axis did Operation Typhoon and made the advance to the city limits of Moscow.

The problem is that the Axis and Soviets do not fight as much as they did historically. Some of the Soviet players are finding that you CAN defend forward in the center and north, but the south remains an instant run away for the Soviets. If the two sides fight historically, then the casualties on both sides are higher, and the Soviets find it harder and harder to train up morale (since the Soviet NM reduces by 1 each month in 41) and then the Axis can punch through in either the central or north and cause more Soviet losses.

(in reply to SigUp)

Post #: 6

RE: First months of the war? - 12/26/2013 5:45:13 PM

swkuh

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline

Believe that the point of the game is not to force historical outcomes but to give the players a chance to outthink history. And to do so with the most realistic data possible.

Agree with many others that the early (and later) forcing rules are disappointments, but after all, what're developers to do?

(in reply to carlkay58)

Post #: 7

RE: First months of the war? - 12/26/2013 11:56:59 PM

governato

Posts: 1079
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp

Only an inexperienced Soviet player against a top-notch Axis one is going to get steamrolled.

That would be pretty historical no?

My impression is that the game is at its best/most fun when the most experienced player plays the Axis. The Red Army has some room for mistakes and can learn along the way.

(in reply to SigUp)

Post #: 8

RE: First months of the war? - 12/27/2013 8:46:05 PM

GamesaurusRex

Posts: 505
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp

Gamesaurus, haven't you noticed Pelton's game against sapper? And Bozo's also demonstrated that it works. The combat engine benefits the masses, so even with apparently lower CV you can win battles. I would suggest you ask the better Soviet players for strategies, get a few more games under your belt, before declaring something that's simply not true. Only an inexperienced Soviet player against a top-notch Axis one is going to get steamrolled. All skills being equal on a high level, the Soviet more often than not will manage to stifle the Axis by August 1941. There are more than enough examples of this.

Yes. I have noticed it and, if you read my response on that AAR, you will see that I called it what the English, I believe, refer to as "Bollocks". A tainted AAR.

Yes, the Russians can attack, but doing so exposes them to being isolated and sacked and there is nothing a Russian player can do to change that, other than simply retreating to avoid it. These "reported" series of Russian 1-1 mass attacks resulting in victories EVERY time (94% anyone?) are the result of less than honest turn processing in my opinion.

(in reply to SigUp)

Post #: 9