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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Scourge of War Gettysburg Series >> Waterloo?

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Waterloo? - 1/17/2014 1:37:52 PM

Napoleon15

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Joined: 10/10/2013
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So I heard from somebody that the SoW team is doing a Waterloo game, but there's nothing on the Matrix front page about it. Is this true? I sincerely hope it is, as there aren't many tactical Napoleonic games about these days, let alone great ones. SoW engine would be an excellent fit.

Post #: 1

RE: Waterloo? - 1/17/2014 2:20:32 PM

Floyd

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Joined: 1/6/2006
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More info can be found there:
http://www.norbsoftdev.net/

(in reply to Napoleon15)

Post #: 2

RE: Waterloo? - 1/19/2014 12:51:30 AM

histgamer

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Joined: 11/30/2006
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And since the last poster didn't address it, yes it is true.

(in reply to Floyd)

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RE: Waterloo? - 1/24/2014 12:56:35 PM

aaatoysandmore

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Joined: 9/11/2013
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yes unfortunately Norb went the wrong way in history. He should have made a Roman or Greek game first. I have no interest in napoleonics. Never really liked any Napoleon games really. Too conventional and the same makeup of equipment and arms. I like a lot of different types of weapons like in WWII or Ancient periods of warfare. I mean what really is fun about watching a line of men say 50yards to 100yards apart stop and fire at each other? Kinda stupid if you ask me and the Colonials showed why during the war of 1776, but then went back to it during their own civilwar. I wanna see heads flying and legs getting chopped off and eyeballs poked out and all that other good stuff of Ancient warfare.

Wonder when the day will come someone will make a game called Making a Wargame Movie? We need another Wargame Construction Set. I think we're up to IV now as Age of Rifles I think was the last one.

(in reply to histgamer)

Post #: 4

RE: Waterloo? - 1/30/2014 7:11:32 AM

histgamer

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To be fair Napoleonic tactics were actually more complex than Civil War tactics. The Napolonic wars saw the abandonment of pure line up and fire doctrine and rather new formations adopted by various armies to various affect. The French adopted a method of columns of attack where a small front rank would fire and the rest of the column would not as they moved forward, a few vollies would be exchanged and then a baynet charge would usually result, this was less prevalent at Waterloo to my understanding as many of the traditional Napoleonic tactics were too complicated for the relatively green french recruits. The British on the other hand utalized a 4 deep rank and so the opposite of the french the British would maximize fire by always having 2 ranks firing and 2 ranks reloading then of course you have the far more effective use of cavalry.

Thats a general assessment I may be off here or there as I am not a Napoleonic tactics expert but I will say this.

The American Civil War saw a reversal of tactics and saw both sides adopt the more traditional line up and fire volleys into each other until one broke, it was much more of a Fredrick the Great style of combat and less advanced than Napoleonic conflicts and Cavalries battlefield usefulness was far less than in Napoleonic times, the units didn't even learn square formations.

I understand if Napoleonics is not your cup of tea but to say it was simpler than ACW combat is flawed, even if I lack the expertise to say specifically why I can tell you ACW tactics were definitely more simplified.

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

yes unfortunately Norb went the wrong way in history. He should have made a Roman or Greek game first. I have no interest in napoleonics. Never really liked any Napoleon games really. Too conventional and the same makeup of equipment and arms. I like a lot of different types of weapons like in WWII or Ancient periods of warfare. I mean what really is fun about watching a line of men say 50yards to 100yards apart stop and fire at each other? Kinda stupid if you ask me and the Colonials showed why during the war of 1776, but then went back to it during their own civilwar. I wanna see heads flying and legs getting chopped off and eyeballs poked out and all that other good stuff of Ancient warfare. Wonder when the day will come someone will make a game called Making a Wargame Movie? We need another Wargame Construction Set. I think we're up to IV now as Age of Rifles I think was the last one.

< Message edited by flanyboy -- 1/30/2014 8:12:10 AM >

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)

Post #: 5

RE: Waterloo? - 1/30/2014 11:00:26 PM

Jim_NSD

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Joined: 9/19/2012
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Combat in the Napoleonic era required that the commander be an expert in combined arms tactics. Each of the three arms (infantry, cavalry, and artillery) had counterbalancing strengths and weaknesses. To win in this era required proper use of each type of unit and the proper timing to make it all go together. If a commander just lines his troops up and starts shooting any general from 1815 would rout them off the battlefield in short order. The tactics used in the Waterloo campaign were the culmination of 22 years of lessons learned the hard way on the battlefield.

The tactics of Napoleon were made obsolete by technical advances. The level of tactical sophistication was not matched until the development of a new take combined arms that the descendants of the Prussians called blitzkrieg.

-Jim

_____________________________

Design Lead: Scourge of War

"My God, if we've not got a cool brain and a big one too, to manage this affair, the nation is ruined forever." Unknown private, 14th Vermont Infantry, 2 July 1863

(in reply to histgamer)

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RE: Waterloo? - 2/10/2014 7:50:54 AM

DerGrenadier

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I think the reverse back to Linear Tactics has more to do with the rifled musket appearing in greater numbers on the battlefield. In the time of the smoothbore musket you could move a solid block of infantry towards the enemy and maybe you receive 1 or 2 volleys of fire before the breakin of the enemy line. In the age of the rifled musket a infantry column would get shoot to pieces from distances never heard of before, say 500-600 meters. Also the accuracy is much better for a rifle. Though Colonel Emory Upton developed a column tactic during the Battle of Spotsylvania Court House where he was able thus to break the Confederate line with it.

< Message edited by DerGrenadier -- 2/10/2014 8:52:24 AM >

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(in reply to Jim_NSD)

Post #: 7

RE: Waterloo? - 2/10/2014 7:54:14 PM

mitra76

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Upton column at Spotsylvania was nothing of revolutionary, it was a multiple line column two regiments wide, if I remember correctly; it worked because it had the surprise, a good ground and forced his men to don't stop to shoot at the enemy, like happened usually during the ACW. The formation itself was not very different from those used by Marlborough 150 years before and from D'Erlon at Waterloo (in this case more deep and less wide). In all these cases the ideas was to merge the manouver power of column with the firepower of line.

Rifled musket gives a theoretical long range but because of his configuration at middle range without a proper use of gunsight (and troops in formation never aim) the real employment range was superior to napolenic musket only for few yard's ten.

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Visit my wargame blog: http://warforgame.blogspot.it/

(in reply to DerGrenadier)

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RE: Waterloo? - 2/11/2014 2:27:23 PM

Ostwindflak

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Joined: 1/23/2014
From: New Hampshire
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Is this going to be an official mod by the developer or a stand alone game? Also is it going to use a new game engine or the existing engine?

(in reply to mitra76)

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RE: Waterloo? - 2/11/2014 9:29:44 PM

Jim_NSD

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Waterloo will be using a new generation of game engine. This will based on the existing engine but will have substantial changes in a number of areas.

-Jim

_____________________________

Design Lead: Scourge of War

"My God, if we've not got a cool brain and a big one too, to manage this affair, the nation is ruined forever." Unknown private, 14th Vermont Infantry, 2 July 1863

(in reply to Ostwindflak)

Post #: 10

RE: Waterloo? - 3/24/2014 4:26:01 PM

Surtur

Posts: 435
Joined: 8/6/2013
From: The Netherlands
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Hi guys,

We just opened a dedicated forum for Scourge of War Waterloo. You can find it here.

We also posted some WIP screenshots there that are well worth a look.

Cheers,

Surtur

(in reply to Jim_NSD)

Post #: 11