Proximity Arrays useless?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Proximity Arrays useless?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds 1 Series >> The War Room >> Proximity Arrays useless?

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/21/2014 2:11:42 PM

Deathball

Posts: 117
Joined: 4/3/2012
Status: offline

You can see everything in a system, including gas clouds so the only time they come into play is if you fight an enemy in deep space, but when would you ever do that? It allows you to track fleeing ships into hyperspace but that isn't particularly useful either since you're generally not concerned as much about destroying an enemy's warships as taking over his planets.

Post #: 1

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 10:35:04 AM

Bingeling

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline

I think they work like a very short ranged "long range scanner". At least I have in the past seen a pirate base when a fleet drove across the system (with hyperdrive).

If bored an curious, it is probably possible to test this with the editor.

(in reply to Deathball)

Post #: 2

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 11:34:14 AM

Darkspire

Posts: 1986
Joined: 6/12/2003
From: My Own Private Hell
Status: offline

quote:

It allows you to track fleeing ships into hyperspace

That is pretty useless as well, you can target the ship / fleet but the fleet only goes to the last known point the ship / fleet was detected, once your fleet / ship reaches that point they stop even if your ship / fleet is faster, surely if they were working correctly then your ship / fleet should track them to there destination?
Like pirate constructors, they are 90% of the time going to build a base somewhere, you should be able to track them to there destination and destroy them if you have the Proximity Arrays installed

Darkspire

< Message edited by Darkspire -- 1/22/2014 12:34:36 PM >

_____________________________

Darkspires's File Repository

(in reply to Deathball)

Post #: 3

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 11:39:54 AM

Deathball

Posts: 117
Joined: 4/3/2012
Status: offline

Just placed a pirate gas mining station at a gas cloud, then had a ship hyperdrive over the gas cloud. It did not detect the mining station.

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 4

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 12:20:27 PM

Bingeling

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline

It was a nice theory, though :)

(in reply to Deathball)

Post #: 5

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 3:33:28 PM

CyclopsSlayer

Posts: 583
Joined: 2/11/2012
Status: offline

It would help somewhat as well if we had a clue as to what the range means. "Scan Range 60,000" means what exactly? 60K millimeters, kilometers, miles, rods, chains, furlongs, frog hops, light seconds??

Light seconds would actually make some sense as Sol star system would be about 60,000 light seconds across if you just counted the planetary orbits. So 60K would be able to see the entire Kuiper belts estimated 50AU radius if say scanning from Earth.

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 6

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 5:35:48 PM

ASHBERY76

Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline

I have had forces track and destroy alien scum on many occasions so no it's not useless but maybe not much of a tech priority.The same could be said for a fair few techs.

< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 1/22/2014 6:56:02 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to CyclopsSlayer)

Post #: 7

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 6:01:23 PM

Deathball

Posts: 117
Joined: 4/3/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

It would help somewhat as well if we had a clue as to what the range means. "Scan Range 60,000" means what exactly? 60K millimeters, kilometers, miles, rods, chains, furlongs, frog hops, light seconds??

Light seconds would actually make some sense as Sol star system would be about 60,000 light seconds across if you just counted the planetary orbits. So 60K would be able to see the entire Kuiper belts estimated 50AU radius if say scanning from Earth.

From testing it seems a scanrange of 60k is about 2-3 times a system diameter, however the proximity array does not actually work inside a system (gimping the whole thing even further).

< Message edited by Deathball -- 1/22/2014 7:04:34 PM >

(in reply to CyclopsSlayer)

Post #: 8

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 6:31:24 PM

SireChaos

Posts: 710
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Status: offline

Based on my observations, I assume a sector is 2 million by 2 million range units large.

(in reply to Deathball)

Post #: 9

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/22/2014 6:31:34 PM

Osito

Posts: 875
Joined: 5/9/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathball

quote:

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

It would help somewhat as well if we had a clue as to what the range means. "Scan Range 60,000" means what exactly? 60K millimeters, kilometers, miles, rods, chains, furlongs, frog hops, light seconds??

Light seconds would actually make some sense as Sol star system would be about 60,000 light seconds across if you just counted the planetary orbits. So 60K would be able to see the entire Kuiper belts estimated 50AU radius if say scanning from Earth.

From testing it seems a scanrange of 60k is about 2-3 times a system diameter, however the proximity array does not actually work inside a system (gimping the whole thing even further).

Although I haven't specifically tested it, I suspect the ship sensor range also depends on the number of sectors in the galaxy. The long range scanners you put on spaceports have a lower range (in terms of sector size) in galaxies with fewer sectors, so it makes sense that the ship sensors would be similarly scaled down. On a 15x15 galaxy, the best spaceport scanners have 1.5 million range, and that gives you a radius of about 0.75 sectors, so a 60k sensor range is going to see about 0.03 sectors.

Edit:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SireChaos

Based on my observations, I assume a sector is 2 million by 2 million range units large.

I think that's about right on a 15x15 galaxy.

< Message edited by Osito -- 1/22/2014 7:33:06 PM >

(in reply to Deathball)

Post #: 10

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/27/2014 9:25:40 PM

Spidey

Posts: 411
Joined: 12/8/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

It would help somewhat as well if we had a clue as to what the range means. "Scan Range 60,000" means what exactly? 60K millimeters, kilometers, miles, rods, chains, furlongs, frog hops, light seconds??

Light seconds would actually make some sense as Sol star system would be about 60,000 light seconds across if you just counted the planetary orbits. So 60K would be able to see the entire Kuiper belts estimated 50AU radius if say scanning from Earth.

I'm pretty sure it means in-game "distance units". Notice that a sector is a 2000k by 2000k unit square. The ultimate long range scanner has a range of 750k, meaning that it scans a big circle with a diameter of 1500k. This is not scaled by the number of sectors in the game, at least not as far as I know. The range shown is how many distance units out the thing will scan.

I'm also fairly certain that the hyperspace tracking percentage on proximity sensors is the percentage of the total scan distance within which it can detect ships in hyperspace.

quote:

From testing it seems a scanrange of 60k is about 2-3 times a system diameter

I select a ship and point the cursor to the left of a system, remember the x-coordinate, then move the cursor to the right of the system. The coordinates will disappear while the cursor is inside the system radius and then appear again on the other side. At that point, the x-coordinate is 50k higher. This has me suspecting that a system diameter is 50k. That is, the system stretches out in a radius of 25k from the solar center.

< Message edited by Spidey -- 1/27/2014 10:34:27 PM >

(in reply to CyclopsSlayer)

Post #: 11

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/28/2014 7:15:32 AM

Deathball

Posts: 117
Joined: 4/3/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey

quote:

From testing it seems a scanrange of 60k is about 2-3 times a system diameter

I select a ship and point the cursor to the left of a system, remember the x-coordinate, then move the cursor to the right of the system. The coordinates will disappear while the cursor is inside the system radius and then appear again on the other side. At that point, the x-coordinate is 50k higher. This has me suspecting that a system diameter is 50k. That is, the system stretches out in a radius of 25k from the solar center.

Further testing seems to corroborate this. Also it seems ships outside a system can detect ships inside a system but not vice versa.

(in reply to Spidey)

Post #: 12

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/28/2014 11:58:10 AM

CyclopsSlayer

Posts: 583
Joined: 2/11/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathball

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey

quote:

From testing it seems a scanrange of 60k is about 2-3 times a system diameter

I select a ship and point the cursor to the left of a system, remember the x-coordinate, then move the cursor to the right of the system. The coordinates will disappear while the cursor is inside the system radius and then appear again on the other side. At that point, the x-coordinate is 50k higher. This has me suspecting that a system diameter is 50k. That is, the system stretches out in a radius of 25k from the solar center.

Further testing seems to corroborate this. Also it seems ships outside a system can detect ships inside a system but not vice versa.

Hmm, so mounting Long Range Scanners and Proximity Sensors on planet orbiting stations serves no purpose I guess?
That would explain the number of bases/listening posts found in mid space.

(in reply to Deathball)

Post #: 13

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/28/2014 12:43:26 PM

Deathball

Posts: 117
Joined: 4/3/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathball

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey

quote:

From testing it seems a scanrange of 60k is about 2-3 times a system diameter

I select a ship and point the cursor to the left of a system, remember the x-coordinate, then move the cursor to the right of the system. The coordinates will disappear while the cursor is inside the system radius and then appear again on the other side. At that point, the x-coordinate is 50k higher. This has me suspecting that a system diameter is 50k. That is, the system stretches out in a radius of 25k from the solar center.

Further testing seems to corroborate this. Also it seems ships outside a system can detect ships inside a system but not vice versa.

Hmm, so mounting Long Range Scanners and Proximity Sensors on planet orbiting stations serves no purpose I guess?
That would explain the number of bases/listening posts found in mid space.

Long Range Scanners work fine wherever you put them, the reason the AI likes to put monitoring stations in deep space is because it makes them harder to find. Proximity arrays on stations however seem to be completely useless.

(in reply to CyclopsSlayer)

Post #: 14

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/29/2014 5:53:52 AM

Spidey

Posts: 411
Joined: 12/8/2013
Status: offline

quote:

Proximity arrays on stations however seem to be completely useless.

Almost completely useless, I suspect, but ships with proximity arrays do have limited hyperspace tracking and I believe this works inside systems as well. In other words, instead of pirates disappearing like they've teleported whenever they enter hyperspace, you have a brief window in which you can see what direction they're warping. Useful? Not all that much, at least not until you've invested a crapload of research into the proximity sensors and reached two digit hyperspace tracking percentages.

Still, I personally wouldn't bother with proximity gear on bases. I throw long range scanners on mines and exploration ships and that tends to take care of my needs. Seems a bit odd to have that sort of gear on mining facilities rather than military facilities but I'd rather have the private sector pay the upkeep if I can help it and if I'm going to spam mines anyway, they might as well also serve a strategic purpose.

(in reply to Deathball)

Post #: 15

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 1/29/2014 6:27:07 AM

CyclopsSlayer

Posts: 583
Joined: 2/11/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey

quote:

Proximity arrays on stations however seem to be completely useless.

Still, I personally wouldn't bother with proximity gear on bases. I throw long range scanners on mines and exploration ships and that tends to take care of my needs. Seems a bit odd to have that sort of gear on mining facilities rather than military facilities but I'd rather have the private sector pay the upkeep if I can help it and if I'm going to spam mines anyway, they might as well also serve a strategic purpose.

I tend to place LRScanners on bases, including Resorts. Never thought to pop them on Explorers but that is a decent idea.

(in reply to Spidey)

Post #: 16

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 2/25/2014 11:19:08 AM

Sirian

Posts: 174
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline

LR Scanners on exploration ships are *awesome*. Place one in deep space next to an enemies system and you see all, hear all and know all. I cannot remember losing one of those to a computer player. And even if I did, they're cheap. For added safety one can fit a cloak, too... :-) Also tremendously helps when chasing Phantom Pirates, or looking for their base.

_____________________________

Visit Sirian's Mods

(in reply to CyclopsSlayer)

Post #: 17

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 2/25/2014 4:46:33 PM

Ardilus

Posts: 53
Joined: 12/30/2012
Status: offline

What is odd is that ships without proximity arrays can still track targets moving in hyperspace. The range appears to work as described above, but what exactly is the % figure figuring? I've been wondering if this has to do with accuracy of jump destination, as in how close ships will be to target location on arrival?

< Message edited by Ardilus -- 2/25/2014 5:48:19 PM >

(in reply to Sirian)

Post #: 18

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 2/25/2014 6:20:17 PM

Spacecadet

Posts: 1780
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

It would help somewhat as well if we had a clue as to what the range means. "Scan Range 60,000" means what exactly? 60K millimeters, kilometers, miles, rods, chains, furlongs, frog hops, light seconds??

Light seconds would actually make some sense as Sol star system would be about 60,000 light seconds across if you just counted the planetary orbits. So 60K would be able to see the entire Kuiper belts estimated 50AU radius if say scanning from Earth.

All range values :

1 Pixel at maximum zoom level = 1 Range

So 60,000 Range is 60,000 pixels at maximum zoom

A Sector is 2,000,000 x 2,000,000 pixels, regardless of whether it is a 4 x 4 or 15 x 15 sector map.

More FYI (@ Spidey), yes, a system is approximately 50,000 pixels.

EDIT (History) :

I had questions on these values as well when testing Shadows (first Warp Drive), and asked Elliot to put in the range factor in the Ship Design screen.
Initially it was going to be the pixel value, but it made more sense and was less cluttered to convert it to sectors.

This info may be in the Galactopedia somewhere as well, but I don't recall encountering it myself.

< Message edited by Spacecadet -- 2/25/2014 7:34:36 PM >

_____________________________

CPU: Intel 2700K
RAM: 16 GB
GPU: GTX 970
OS: Windows 7 (64 bit)
Res: 1920 x 1200

(in reply to CyclopsSlayer)

Post #: 19

RE: Proximity Arrays useless? - 2/26/2014 2:25:18 PM

ReadeB

Posts: 99
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline

Not sure about range, but I believe the Proximity Arrays are generating the messages about "The 53rd fleet is on an attack vector to blah blah mining station"

My defensive fleets then sit and wait for the attacking fleet to arrive.

Nice feature.

(in reply to Spacecadet)

Post #: 20