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RE: Renaming Air Counters

 
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RE: Renaming Air Counters - 2/26/2014 8:27:53 PM   
Finarfïn


Posts: 145
Joined: 12/23/2013
Status: offline 		Some funny facts about japan's aircraft and wif:

"J" nammed aircraft were supposed to be land based interceptors so "shinden" could have been replaced by A7M reppu (allied code name SAM) but, by an author choise i think, this plane isn't in WiF.

A6M official allied code name never was zero but zeke (rufus,hap or hamp for specials versions).

Have fun

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 61
RE: Renaming Air Counters - 2/26/2014 8:35:03 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline 		D3A1 – Chihaya - Akagi
A6M2 – Sato - Kaga


Carrier Akagi (CV)
Dive-bombing Group Second Wave Lieutenant Takehiko Chihaya (Two groups of 9 aircraft)
Lieutenant Takehiko Chihaya

Assuming that Lieutenant Zenji Abe and several others have it correct.


Carrier Kaga (CV)
Combat Air Patrol
First Wave (Force Combat Air Patrol)
2nd Fighter Squadron (9x A6M2/21 Zero/Zeke Fighter) Lieutenant Shiga Yoshio
Second Wave (Force Combat Air Patrol)
2nd Fighter Squadron (9x A6M2/21 Zero/Zeke Fighter) (two aircraft lost) Lieutenant Nikaido Yaushi
Carrier Combat Air Patrol
2nd Fighter Squadron (9x A6M2/21 Zero/Zeke Fighter)


Carrier Zuikaku (CV)
First Wave (Force Combat Air Patrol)
6th Fighter Squadron (6x A6M2/21 Zero/Zeke Fighter) in three groups of 2 Lieutenant Masao Sato

Assuming that Osprey and several others have it correct.



< Message edited by Extraneous -- 2/26/2014 9:36:45 PM >

_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Finarfïn)
Post #: 62
RE: Renaming Air Counters - 2/26/2014 9:50:29 PM   
Dabrion


Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
Status: offline 		For PH there is a list on the web:
1st wave: http://www007.upp.so-net.ne.jp/togo/human/data/pearl_jpn1.html
2nd wave: http://www007.upp.so-net.ne.jp/togo/human/data/pearl_jpn2.html

According to that list there are some discrepancies, to demystify the Sato case:

1st wave 翔鶴 (Zuikaku) had the 5th fighter squadron with 零式艦上戦闘機 (type 0 carrier based fighter a/c) (aka A6M2 Zeros) and was lead by 佐藤正夫 大尉 [Sato Masao Taii] (Cpt. Masao Sato). Sato is the Family name here!

If you have further questions I can translate.





< Message edited by Dabrion -- 2/26/2014 10:52:48 PM >

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 63
RE: Renaming Air Counters - 2/26/2014 10:10:28 PM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		Seriously, I really appreciate the help with the historical naming of the virtual counters. With checks and counter checks for accuracy the end result distills into a much cleaner look. (I'm still working on the original intent of this thread. Just at a much slower pace.) Thank you.

This mod request was not so difficult. Getting it right builds a foundation for later work. Makes the mind think in ways to conform and explore. Makes me drink more.
The particular mod has a few oddities. Hope you understand.

The following aircraft were not renamed for various reasons. No allied codename and visual problems between file and counter graphic. Better to do nothing. Unless something changes in the future.
A6M2N Reisen (Rufe), Ki-15 Karigane (Babs), J7W2 Shinden, J9N1 Kikka, J8M1 Shusui, J7W1 Shinden

This one was mis-identifed and never given its own name. So i went with the mis-identifier. Good example of a common occurance in war.
Ki-100 'Tony'

Land based A6M were codenamed Zeke. Carrier based A6M were codenamed Zero. A tribute to a fact both were used.
A6M 'Zero', A6M 'Zeke'

Land based A6M3 codenamed 'Hamp' as a nod to General Henry "Hap" Arnold for getting it changed. (Finarfïn helped here)
A6M3 'Hamp'

Bomber turned into a night-fighter. Gender neutral codenaming of aircraft during WW2 was not done as far as i know. Its no wonder it had no codename. Hence my choice, UFO or Sue. If you have no sense of humor, i can't help ya.
Ki-109 'UFO'

Before posting the file for download. Anyone spot a problem? Any requests?




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to Guzz)
Post #: 64
RE: Renaming Air Counters - 2/26/2014 11:13:54 PM   
Dabrion


Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
Status: offline 		Looks good!

Why do the t99 dive bomber have their reporting name in all capitals?
UFO is probably what the B-29 on the receiving end would have reported ;)

I think you should remove the "" around Zero, as this never was a reporting name. The reporting name for all A6M was "Zeke", excluding the "Hap"/"Hamp" glitch. For some reason the navy aviators used the same name as Japs..

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.
Post #: 65
RE: Renaming Air Counters - 2/27/2014 2:30:37 AM   
Finarfïn


Posts: 145
Joined: 12/23/2013
Status: offline 		very great job:)

About UFo maybe something like this can help you:)







Attachment (1)

(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 66
RE: Renaming Air Counters - 2/27/2014 3:21:56 AM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		Nice looking UFO chart. Got to watch for the Swamp Gas.

_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to Finarfïn)
Post #: 67
RE: Renaming Air Counters - 2/27/2014 3:26:28 AM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

Looks good!

Why do the t99 dive bomber have their reporting name in all capitals?
UFO is probably what the B-29 on the receiving end would have reported ;)

I think you should remove the "" around Zero, as this never was a reporting name. The reporting name for all A6M was "Zeke", excluding the "Hap"/"Hamp" glitch. For some reason the navy aviators used the same name as Japs..


I was exploring how Capital letters looked on renaming. Left it in for the VAL vs Val.
As this was a request, I'll let Guzz have the last word on 'Zero' or Zero.

Thanks

_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 68
RE: Renaming Air Counters - 2/27/2014 3:28:49 AM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
A good information site for the IJN.

Combined Fleet

Combined Fleet ~ Kido Butai (Mobile Strike Force) Tabular Records of Movement

This is one of the best sites on the web. Have used it ever since surfing to it long ago.

_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 69
RE: Renaming Air Counters - 2/27/2014 2:01:00 PM   
Guzz


Posts: 19
Joined: 12/29/2013
From: Plymouth, UK
Status: offline 		I think you've done an excellent job WarHunter. Thank you.
Having the Jap codename on the counters really adds some in game flavour and colour to their aircraft.
Regarding the Zero or Zeke debate, I think we should stick with the actual codename used....Zeke.

(in reply to WarHunter)
Post #: 70
RE: Renaming Air Counters - 2/27/2014 2:27:00 PM   
Cataphract88


Posts: 728
Joined: 10/5/2012
From: Britannia
Status: offline 		Looks great, WarHunter.

_____________________________

Richard

(in reply to Guzz)
Post #: 71
RE: Renaming Air Counters - 2/27/2014 3:14:06 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

For PH there is a list on the web:
1st wave: http://www007.upp.so-net.ne.jp/togo/human/data/pearl_jpn1.html
2nd wave: http://www007.upp.so-net.ne.jp/togo/human/data/pearl_jpn2.html



Just to clarify

Taii = Captain in the Imperial Japanese Army = Lieutenant in the Imperial Japanese Navy

Japanese Military Ranking System - by David Aiken



_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 72
RE: Renaming Air Counters - 3/2/2014 12:07:25 PM   
Dabrion


Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
Status: offline 		Hi Extraneous. I am not sure if you read that article.. but it basically refutes your point in the first sentence. The article (and D. Aiken in general) is a credible source, though. There is no notion of different rank names in IJA/IJN! They are all the same, and would be prefixed with 陸軍 (Rikugun/Army) or 海軍 (Kaigun/Navy), where context requires.

The Jō (尉) ranks are junior commissioned officer ranks and were used in same meaning in IJN and IJA. These ranks are associated with company-level executive command. Dai (大) means Large, Big or Principal, turning this into the most senior of those ranks. This would correspond to a OF-1 in NATO terms, depending on land and doctrine a O-2 or O-3 in US terms. In the IJN this was your typical 2IC or officer in charge of a gun or a watch, or a as in this case, a pilot that went through the proper aviation schools (mostly career soldiers whose career started before the war).

This is not the USN O-6 rank! The common (English) translation for pilots of this rank in (US historical) literature is "Lieutenant (Lt.)", which is befitting as that was the equivalent rank a pilot in same standing would hold in the USN.


p.s.: I think I understand your confusion. You try to use US terms for the Japs ranks. In that case you have a point.

< Message edited by Dabrion -- 3/2/2014 1:12:02 PM >

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 73
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