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Change publishers - 2/11/2014 7:42:57 AM

minijag

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I love Distant Worlds. I hate matrixgames. I'm sad this game is stuck at the 100$ pricemark to play the game. Its turned off a lot of players to what should be a great game and the talk of the indie game world. Instead nobody is buying it because you can buy a medium grade graphics card for this game. Can you go into self publishing, or find a new publisher for Distant Worlds 2? I would appreciate it, and so would everybody else.

Post #: 1

RE: Change publishers - 2/11/2014 11:33:34 AM

towerbooks3192

Posts: 337
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Yeah I do admit that with the no demo policy and the premium price you pay, it would take a leap of faith (like what I did) to buy the game and its expansions on one go at full price. Matrix does have some occasional sales though and the prices drop low during those times. I am a bit disappointed that the game is not widely known because it is definitely one of the best(or the best one yet!) compared to the other space 4x you could purchase from major digital retailers. I know that people might think that it is just another indie game but despite its graphics (I reckon it is appropriate and the devs would work more on improving mechanics, UI, stability, etc. rather than a major graphics improvement) the game contains more than what AAA devs give you with your $100 along with nickle and diming you with DLCs that should have been in the game in the first place.

If I have one wish, I only wish the devs would follow Paradox Development Studio's patching policy where they patch the base game for free with the features that made the base game playable and better but only blocks you from using the features of the expansion that you have not purchased (they released the patch for crusader kings 2 for free where they overhauled the technology system but only blocked you from playing features from the Old Gods expansion. They also promised to include the map extension as a free patch for the base game once Rajas of India would be released but would require you to purchase the expansion to enjoy the new mechanics).

(in reply to minijag)

Post #: 2

RE: Change publishers - 2/11/2014 12:51:47 PM

Henzington

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Joined: 12/29/2013
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I watched some lets play and it convinced me but a demo would be nice.

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 3

RE: Change publishers - 2/11/2014 1:10:26 PM

Gregorovitch55

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I absolutely agree, I will not pay $100 for a game no matter how good and how much I would like to play it - and I do want to play DW having watched LP's by Das24680 and others. If I could buy the complete game (i.e. all four parts) for $30 I would do so immediately, but no more for a game of this age.

The comparison with Paradox is so true. Distant Worlds is an obscure cult classic. Paradox have proven with Crusader Kings 2 and Europa Universalis 4 that by sticking to your guns you can bring games of great depth and complexity to a wide audience via Steam. Between them EU4 and CK2 usually have a max concurrent player count of 10,000+ daily which is some achievement considering a game like Skyrim only makes about 40,000 concurrent.

If this game was released on Steam for around the $30 mark all-in it would quickly be picked up by the likes of Quill18 and possibly AngryJoe (since he likes space 4X games and is exited by GalCivIII) which, with all due respect to Das24680, would massively expand it's exposure and probably lead to an order of magnitude more sales.

Matrix has a niche in specialized war gaming, fair enough, but this game is potentially a classic mainstream space 4X and it is simply inexplicable, indeed a tragedy, that such a game languishes in this backwater (sorry Matrix, but it is) under the weight of a prohibitive price tag that will ultimately consign it to perpetual obscurity unless its connections wake up and smell the coffee.

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 4

RE: Change publishers - 2/11/2014 1:10:40 PM

Bingeling

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This game is a "one man" show. Or rather, it is a "matrix and developer" show. The role of Matrix is not just to publish it, and there is no development team any near the size of what paradox has.

One could hope that the Universe would be a bit more available and visible when it arrives, though.

(in reply to Henzington)

Post #: 5

RE: Change publishers - 2/11/2014 3:11:27 PM

Osito

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregorovitch55

If this game was released on Steam for around the $30 mark all-in it would quickly be picked up by the likes of Quill18 and possibly AngryJoe (since he likes space 4X games and is exited by GalCivIII) which, with all due respect to Das24680, would massively expand it's exposure and probably lead to an order of magnitude more sales.

In fact, the game has already been picked up by Quill18, who did a let's try in May last year. I'm not sure it's Angry Joe's thing (based on what I've heard about the type of strategy games that interest him the most).

(in reply to Gregorovitch55)

Post #: 6

RE: Change publishers - 2/11/2014 3:20:35 PM

ASHBERY76

Posts: 2136
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From: England
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I think Matrix own the IP so no DW from anybody else.Elloit could still make another 4x game but not with DW in the title.

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Post #: 7

RE: Change publishers - 2/11/2014 8:07:00 PM

Igard

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From: Scotland
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I'm not sure there would be a DW without Matrix, so I'm glad they published it. Who knows how long Elliot would have tried to get the game out there without their help.

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Post #: 8

RE: Change publishers - 2/11/2014 8:30:23 PM

DevildogFF

Posts: 187
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From: Northern Virginia, USA
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/kinda agree here. I'm not a big fan of Matrix Game's business model.

If Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis can find the kind of audience they have with much better, more open business models, just IMAGINE what DW could find!

(in reply to Igard)

Post #: 9

RE: Change publishers - 2/11/2014 10:18:20 PM

DeadlyShoe

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sort of a moot thread guys, all the expansions are going to be wrapped up into Distant Worlds Universe..presumably at a lesser price :)

(in reply to DevildogFF)

Post #: 10

RE: Change publishers - 2/11/2014 11:16:28 PM

Erik Rutins

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Distant Worlds: Universe should make you all a happier bunch I'd say. Feedback heard, you shouldn't have much longer to wait.

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Post #: 11

RE: Change publishers - 2/12/2014 12:00:34 AM

akvilonn

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"Distant Worlds: Universe should make you all a happier bunch I'd say. Feedback heard, you shouldn't have much longer to wait."

Thank you Erik for the hint, would that mean actual Steam publishing, exposure of the game to the broad public and reviewers?
Would that mean ditching the over-pricing of the game and its expansions because we all are "special fan club"?

As I understand the Universe stand alone promises huge modding ability, I would love fresh crowd here and looking forward to people who haven't discovered this amazing space sim.

I know your business commitments are such and unchangeable until expired, and freedom is not free, but please!!!

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 12

RE: Change publishers - 2/12/2014 5:49:45 AM

Kayoz

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From: Timbuktu
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quote:

ORIGINAL: akvilonn
would that mean actual Steam publishing

Search the forums. This is an old and tired argument. Suffice to say, it's not in Matrix or Code Force's interest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: akvilonn
exposure of the game to the broad public and reviewers

It's been improving. Erik has been more aggressive in marketing Matrix games through bloggers and individual
reviewers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: akvilonn
Would that mean ditching the over-pricing of the game and its expansions because we all are "special fan club"?

Erik has stated that bundle pricing is something he's considering. But his stated position is that DW (vanilla) is quite cheap, and if you like it, the expansions are well worth it. On this, I have to agree - especially seeing the DLCs sold on Steam which consist of nothing more than a handful of scripts and a few skins. With each DW expansion, you get FAR FAR more.

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(in reply to akvilonn)

Post #: 13

RE: Change publishers - 2/12/2014 1:02:29 PM

TanC

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+1 to Kayoz's point on pricing. For what you get, the price is a small amount to pay compared to other expansions and DLC.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 14

RE: Change publishers - 2/12/2014 4:03:36 PM

CyclopsSlayer

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To date DW's marketing has been poor at best. I have loved 4x games since 'Reach for the Stars v2' on the Apple ][ back in the mid 1980's. Ascendancy, MoO 1/2/3, Space Empire 1/2/3/4/5, GalCiv 1/2, etc... and many non-space titles.

Yet, I never heard a whisper about DW until I found a 'Let's Play' video by accident.

(in reply to TanC)

Post #: 15

RE: Change publishers - 2/12/2014 4:27:38 PM

Flinkebeinchen

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Joined: 6/18/2013
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Just read the Blog from Jeff Vogel, he specialized in old shool rpg's and decided to put his games on Steam, very interesting.

http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.de/2011/10/why-all-our-games-are-now-cheaper.html

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Post #: 16

RE: Change publishers - 2/13/2014 6:33:29 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flinkebeinchen

Just read the Blog from Jeff Vogel

I have difficulty taking seriously, someone who sings that tired old song of "pirates are destroying my business" - when every study shows this is not the case. The following link is regarding the music industry - but the similarities should be obvious. Of course, I'd love to see a similar study of the computer gaming industry.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/digital-piracy-not-harming-entertainment-industries-study-1.1894729

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Post #: 17

RE: Change publishers - 2/13/2014 1:34:14 PM

Shark7

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On the other side of this argument...

Had DW released on Steam, I'd have never tried it simply because I refuse to use Steam. In other words, if DW hadn't released at Matrix, I'd have never known it even existed.

I do agree it needs more advertisement though.

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Post #: 18

RE: Change publishers - 2/13/2014 1:39:45 PM

Bingeling

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Release on steam is a good thing for users. It is a convenient thing. It may not be a good thing for Matrix, though.

Being exclusive on steam is a bad thing, as we lose sharks :)

I am amazed that I am here, as I am not a 4X fan... A chance review on a minor site for the original game. And an excellent AAR by Das gave more understanding of the potential of the game, and made me stick around.

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 19

RE: Change publishers - 2/13/2014 3:14:51 PM

Flinkebeinchen

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@Kayoz
Another good article about pirating Games: http://www.fortressofdoors.com/2012/02/piracy-and-four-currencies.html

Releasing on Steam generates extra money from people who must have every game in their library or just are interested in 4x games. I guess the extra sales generate more money then the share (~30%) steam takes. And why not go with a little discount for Steam-DRM users while they can still buy the non-DRM version for some more from matrix? I would call that a win-win situation.

< Message edited by Flinkebeinchen -- 2/13/2014 4:20:45 PM >

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Post #: 20

RE: Change publishers - 2/13/2014 3:44:24 PM

Cauldyth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling
A chance review on a minor site for the original game. And an excellent AAR by Das gave more understanding of the potential of the game, and made me stick around.

I swear, several publishers owe Das some serious royalties for his Let's Play videos!

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 21

RE: Change publishers - 2/13/2014 4:29:46 PM

Bingeling

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling
A chance review on a minor site for the original game. And an excellent AAR by Das gave more understanding of the potential of the game, and made me stick around.

I swear, several publishers owe Das some serious royalties for his Let's Play videos!

But it was not a video :)

I fooled around and got my money's worth. Then I read this one:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2495880

(in reply to Cauldyth)

Post #: 22

RE: Change publishers - 2/13/2014 6:14:21 PM

Gregorovitch55

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I am very pleased to hear about the imminent release of Universe: bring it on!

I can understand that for the bulk of Matrix's catalog Steam may not be a good idea: all serious war gamers know about this community and would be here anyway so why give Steam a 30% cut and enrage customers who hate Steam into the bargain? The point is that DW is *not* a war game and there are millions, literally, of Steam users who would not play a hard core war game but would be very interested in DW who won't ever buy it because a) they don't know about it, b) it's far too expensive, or c) it's too much hassle to set up Matrix account, download/install etc.

With regard to the value of the expansions (Vs the average DLC etc) I can't comment because I haven't played them - but that's not the point. I would be quite happy to buy the base game now for $30 now and pick up the expansions as and when IF the base game included the numerous tools, UI improvements and quality of life tweaks that have accumulated over the years that I have learned of through Das's videos. But from what Das says I understand they are not, you have to buy the whole package.

Again the comparison with Paradox is instructive: Paradox introduced a number of important, nay "must have", tools and QoL improvements to Hearts of Iron III that you could only get if you bought the expansions. Everyone bought them, of course, but a lot of people were pretty angry at having their arms twisted up their backs to do so (especially since they would have bought them anyway since a lot of Paradox fans want to support the company as much as possible). Paradox listened. For EU4 with each expansion there is also a mega-patch containing all the QoL and AI tweaks developed for the expansion automatically downloaded to everyone's base game via Steam at no charge. Most people think this is awesome and it just makes you feel like heading over to Steam to buy some more Paradox games and expansions.

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 23

RE: Change publishers - 2/13/2014 7:05:17 PM

Deathball

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On the matter of changing publishers I recall an interview with Elliot and Erik where they basically said that Matrix is also involved in the development process and provides beta testers so I imagine just going indy or switching to another publisher wouldn't be very prudent unless they can offer similar services to Elliot.

(in reply to Gregorovitch55)

Post #: 24

RE: Change publishers - 2/13/2014 9:51:02 PM

Mad Igor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: akvilonn
Steam publishing

you know what i want to do with peoples,that inserting word "Steam" everywhere they can ?
throw them out of the AIRLOCK.

< Message edited by Mad Igor -- 2/13/2014 10:51:41 PM >

(in reply to akvilonn)

Post #: 25

RE: Change publishers - 2/14/2014 2:29:36 AM

scotten_usa

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I hate to sound like a Matrix fanboy, but I'm completely happy with them. They (and Codeforce) have continued to support and expand the game far beyond its roots.

There is no reason every game needs to be on Steam & its clones.

(in reply to Mad Igor)

Post #: 26

RE: Change publishers - 2/14/2014 6:58:03 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
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From: Timbuktu
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregorovitch55
why give Steam a 30% cut

Why indeed?

I would guess that Erik's analysis ended there. If there's little to gain from Steam distribution and the costs are significant, why bother? I trust that he crunched the numbers with due diligence when he investigated Steam distribution. His analysis - and he has all the information necessary to make a reasonable decision - was that it was not sufficient to justify getting into bed with Steam.

Whatever you might argue pro-Steam, one indisputable fact remains - that Erik has the facts and you do not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregorovitch55
...there are millions, literally, of Steam users who would not play a hard core war game but would be very interested in DW who won't ever buy it...

Millions? You're sure of that estimate? Please cite your source. Erik used to run a network gaming site, back in the day, and has all sorts of demographic information. Please be so kind as to cite your source for your "millions" claim.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregorovitch55
a) they don't know about it

Granted, Matrix needs to do more marketing. But it's a cost-benefit analysis. Only Erik has the numbers to decide how much marketing budget is worth expending, so I don't think you or I can comment on this. But with that said, he seems to be more aggressive in reaching out to bloggers and gaming sites than he has been historically. It's getting better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregorovitch55
b) it's far too expensive

I strongly disagree. In terms of hours-per-dollar spent, DW is one of my best purchases. There's no need for a new customer to buy all the expansions all at once. They can buy DW vanilla for about $30 and expand on that as they deem worthy of their dollar.

It seems fairer than companies which charge $60-80 for a game which you play for 3 hours, encounter game-breaking bugs and then shelve it indefinitely due to their lack of willingness to maintain the game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregorovitch55
c) it's too much hassle to set up Matrix account, download/install etc.

I give this statement zero value. Online purchasing is becoming ubiquitous these days.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregorovitch55
...IF the base game included the numerous tools, UI improvements and quality of life tweaks that have accumulated over the years...

So, you're saying - "I want all the development work done on DW and all it's expansions, but I only want to pay for the base game"? Is that it? Matrix and CodeForce had done a fair bit of work on DW since it's initial release... and you want all that work... for free?

I don't think I need to point out how absurd this sounds.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregorovitch55
Again the comparison with Paradox <snip>

You have nothing with which to judge the effectiveness of Paradox's decisions and their effect on profitability. Any reference to Paradox is without value.

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Post #: 27

RE: Change publishers - 2/14/2014 8:10:58 AM

hewwo

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I for one love steam. Also, as soon as a game has multiplayer but not via steam its almost an instant no-go, as organizing MP via steam is so much easier that no-one in my group of friends will consider playing something archaic like PBEM. Lazy? Maybe, but why bother if there are so many other awesome steam-enabled games to be played!

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 28

RE: Change publishers - 2/14/2014 10:14:03 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
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From: Timbuktu
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hewwo
organizing MP via steam is so much easier

Going to McDonald's is much easier than the Italian bistro hidden off the main streets down-town, that I found.

But guess which serves better food?

If you're happy with Big Macs, then good for you.

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Post #: 29

RE: Change publishers - 2/14/2014 11:30:52 AM

Spidey

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I, for one, am grateful that this isn't a Steam-game. I don't like Steam and I don't care for that particular business model. If I buy a game then I, and only I, decide if and when said game gets patched and to what version it gets patched. If I buy a game then it is mine to use on my computer for as long as my operating system allows it, and telling me that I can't use the game I bought unless I'm authorized by the publisher is a load of crap that I refuse to accept. Consequently I don't buy from Steam and if a game is Steam-exclusive then that's just too bad.

It may sound a bit ideological to some people, but the way I see it, it really isn't all that extreme. If a developer won't let me play a game permanently offline and won't let me control what game version I'm playing then said developer simply doesn't want my money. Developers make their choice and I make mine.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 30