RE: First Impressions, please!

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RE: First Impressions, please! - 2/22/2014 6:06:46 AM

Sabre21

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There's merit to both sides in this debate about firing on suspected enemy locations. Having spent most of my career in the cav and recon we didn't go around shooting up everything that looked suspicious for the exact reason Mark indicates (not to give away our position), that was when I was in ground recon. There were times you couldn't do a detailed recon though if time was of the essence and if you were pretty certain the enemy was there and you had to go through that area you can bet I wouldn't hesitate to call in arty or an air strike. Direct fire would have been the last resort.

In the case of conducting a deliberate attack though, you almost always use arty or air to suppress likely enemy positions so that friendly forces can maneuver towards the objective.

From an air cav perspective, whenever I had to escort helicopters into an LZ that was in Indian country, we almost always prepped tree lines adjacent to the LZ with rockets and/or 20mm if it was the initial lift and we weren't sure of the enemy disposition.

So there are times when it happens and times when it's not smart to do it.

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Post #: 121

RE: First Impressions, please! - 2/22/2014 6:09:36 AM

Sabre21

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From: on a mountain in Idaho
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By the way, getting back to the original topic, I am really enjoying this game. I'm making it through the German campaign, and even on normal the AI is pretty tough with each of the battles pretty challenging.

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Post #: 122

RE: First Impressions, please! - 3/8/2014 5:46:04 PM

moet

Posts: 194
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel
The -1 makes sense for spotting with the same unit on the next turn. What I'm saying wouldn't it also make sense that any spotting against a unit that fired in the last turn to also have an additional -1? IMO, they are not actively seeking to hide and have revealed themselves more than a unit that was merely spotted but is not firing. Shaken units being spotted would not qualify for this and units that were staying low (not firing) would benefit on their spotting rolls. I just feel that the units in cover enjoy too many benefits in addition to the TEM's.
I like the spotting mechanic in the game as it does add some realism and versatility. But is it too much of a deciding factor where attacks become stalled by a common roll too often?

This is an option, mais be complicated to implement (?). Neutralization fire on revealed targets is another one. Improved efficience of smoke is also interesting.

And there is this one : since fighting vehicles can "acquire a target", which means they can fire at revealed-but-unspotted target they fired at the turn before, why not extend it to infantry? I see you and fire at you, and NEXT turn I still can fire at you because I know you are still there.

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Post #: 123

RE: First Impressions, please! - 3/8/2014 5:52:15 PM

wodin

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Exactly. I really don't believe soldiers wouldn't shoot up a building they'd just been shot at from rather than possibly get sniped again because your trying to see him or you wait until he shoots your men again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: moet

And there is this one : since fighting vehicles can "acquire a target", which means they can fire at revealed-but-unspotted target they fired at the turn before, why not extend it to infantry? I see you and fire at you, and NEXT turn I still can fire at you because I know you are still there.

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Post #: 124

RE: First Impressions, please! - 3/8/2014 6:51:11 PM

midgard30

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quote:

ORIGINAL: moet

And there is this one : since fighting vehicles can "acquire a target", which means they can fire at revealed-but-unspotted target they fired at the turn before, why not extend it to infantry? I see you and fire at you, and NEXT turn I still can fire at you because I know you are still there.

This is for their OFT weapon only which has more impact on a larger area. That's how I see it.

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Post #: 125

RE: First Impressions, please! - 3/13/2014 6:29:48 PM

HobbesACW

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I'm enjoying the game but the AI play in the Pavlov's house scenario is a little odd. Russian units in good cover are running into the open and making the scenario a turkey shoot. I have a feeling this is due to some dropped support weapons in front of the building. I hope the AI can be improved in this respect. Maybe only head for support weapons if they are adjacent or in terrain with a positive modifier. The support weapons dropped are in open terrain - one is in an open terrain wire hex - not a good target for the AI. I'm sure this problem has been mentioned in a previous post.

Cheers,
Chris

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Post #: 126

RE: First Impressions, please! - 3/13/2014 6:57:06 PM

Tom Proudfoot

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From: Alameda, CA
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Which version are you on? I made some changes in 1.06 related to that. Thanks.

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Post #: 127

RE: First Impressions, please! - 3/13/2014 8:21:47 PM

HobbesACW

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Hi Tom, I just double checked - I'm on v1.06. They are still running out of cover into the open. Maybe I started the scenario on an earlier version
(I don't think so though). I'll give it another test tomorrow and let you know.

Thanks,
Chris

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Post #: 128

RE: First Impressions, please! - 3/13/2014 8:23:11 PM

Tom Proudfoot

Posts: 1357
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From: Alameda, CA
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If you can send me a save that would be cool - email to tomp@matrixgames.com. Thanks.

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Post #: 129

RE: First Impressions, please! - 3/14/2014 7:07:28 PM

HobbesACW

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Save sent.

Cheers,
Chris

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Post #: 130

RE: First Impressions, please! - 3/14/2014 11:20:06 PM

genehaynes

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Tom,

I also just completed Pavlov's House and experienced the same behavior (i.e. Russian units moving from excellent cover , stone bldg, into open terrian), where they were immediately cut down.

BTW, I'm using Ver 1.06

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Post #: 131

RE: First Impressions, please! - 3/15/2014 12:09:46 AM

Tom Proudfoot

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I took a look at hobbes's saves. Those guys in the south are supposed to come out as a counterattack (spoilers), but that stack with Ilvanich, that is something wrong there. They're not after the MG, though, they're just oozing forward to be a nuisance, but, yeah, that's not a good spot to do that. Should be fixable.

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Post #: 132

RE: First Impressions, please! - 3/15/2014 8:58:52 AM

HobbesACW

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I just finished the scenario and destroyed all Russian units. 90% of them after they had run out into open terrain from good cover.

Cheers,
Chris

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Post #: 133

RE: First Impressions, please! - 4/6/2014 7:05:00 PM

HobbesACW

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From: UK
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I see 1.08 has the following change:-
-Added some more danger checks for the AI about moving forward forces.

I assumed this would help the AI with problems such as experienced with the Pavlov's house scenario?
I tried it again and there is no difference - the AI still leaves cover for no obvious reason.
One example with a leader leaving his stack here but there are many. I can send a save if needed - but just playing the scenario quickly shows the AI problems.

Cheers,
Chris

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Post #: 134

RE: First Impressions, please! - 4/9/2014 6:22:55 PM

HobbesACW

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From other threads I've read since posting this it seems there is a feeling that the AI doesn't do well when support weapons are left
in a hex on their own. Am I wrong about this? I'm surprised there is not more discussion on the forum if this is the case.
The game is very good but if there is a problem here hopefully it can be fixed?

Cheers,
Chris

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Post #: 135

RE: First Impressions, please! - 4/10/2014 12:36:15 PM

SGHunt

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From: Lancaster, England
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OK, a bit further on from first impressions - I am enjoying this game a great deal. I want more and more complex scenarios (please), although I have really enjoyed some of the short'n'sweet challenges.

As with all board/counter games, it is an abstraction not a simulation, and I think it has been very well designed. Sure the AI does some strange things some times (like leaving cover when there's no real advantage - see Chris's observations above), but in general (in defence, as ever in PC games) it does a pretty good job, especially in fixed positions and when defending in successive lines. Overall, I am left with an 'impression' of quite realistic outcomes, such as when your attack simply melts away, after successive breaks and failed morale checks. The men aren't dead, they are out of the game, combat ineffective, hors de combat. Same with melee against broken squads - they aren't all liquidated: some are but the rest surrender, or run, or hide. Just part of the abstraction.

As for the spotting vs area fire discussion, I am quite satisfied with how this works in the game, notwithstanding the excellent contributions to the debate. I have found that because in every scenario I am really short on time (even in Jonj01's long Karkhov 43 scenario, for example) it means I am always driving my men forward, and they got shot at. Problem solved - there's the enemy (time to "light them up!"). Because squads are rarely killed, you can accept some broken troops as these can be rallied and sent forward with the following wave. It's when you get pinned down and hosed with fire from several stacks, that's when the attack starts to fold. Someone above talked about it 'feeling' right and for me, it does too.

There is a tendency for the tanks to get too close to each other (that's fine in the city), but then we wouldn't them duelling at half a mile, would we? And there tends to be too high a ratio of tanks to infantry in the scenario design. The combined arms stuff works really well IMO, and tanks are not complete masters of the battlefield when there is some decent cover about.

Never really got on with night rules in SL - and I am struggling here too. Must try harder.

Time now, at last, to try the campaigns!

Thanks for what has clearly been a labour of love
Von J

PS good to see you here, Andy (Sabre), and other old campaigners

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Post #: 136

RE: First Impressions, please! - 4/15/2014 6:38:02 PM

markhwalker

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Glad you guys are enjoying it. Night rules are fairly simple. In a nut shell, you can't see further than two hexes, unless you are firing at gun flashes and then you get a -3 DRM.

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Post #: 137