Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister

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ORIGINAL: obvert

Awesome you got there!

Just to note. You should have prepped fully for the base. Japan does not EVER get prep notices, moving troops notices or any other unit based notices. Only heavy signal traffic in spots.

Well played, good to see this effort come to fruition even if the base is not taken.

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ORIGINAL: Sabre21

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ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

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ORIGINAL: Sabre21

From what it sounds like to me is that both a landing on the west coast of the US using the special fast TF's on the first turn or landing a suicide force into a Japanese location to do nothing more than trigger a game mechanic that would eat up tons of resources by activating emergency units and possibly destroy large numbers of factories are both extremely gamey and in my opinion would be a game ender. I wouldn't play someone if I thought that is a tactic they found acceptable. Fortunately by pbem partner is like minded and just as new to this as I am.

I reckon that's where HR's come in and what 2 players are comfortable with.

Noted.

We have no HRs. My opponent and I are completely comfortable with this. Apparently you are not familiar with the Doolittle Raid, another "impossible", "suicide" operation that nevertheless changed the course of the war.

We now return to our scheduled program.

And if you had read much on that particular mission, you would know that Halsey's TF was spotted 600 miles off shore by one of the thousands of small fishing boats that had been drafted into service and that the Japanese did in fact react, although wrongly, but did not activate a nationwide force of reserves. It is nice to have hindsight in knowing exactly where your opponent is and isn't so as to take advantage of a game mechanic whereby a regiment could destroy dozens of square miles of factories just by landing for a single day.

There was no way an invasion force could have secretly arrived off of either the Japanese or US coasts without alerting everyone after 7 Dec.

But again, as long as your opponent is fine with these type "tactics", then all is well.

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ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Awesome you got there!

Just to note. You should have prepped fully for the base. Japan does not EVER get prep notices, moving troops notices or any other unit based notices. Only heavy signal traffic in spots.

Well played, good to see this effort come to fruition even if the base is not taken.

I didn't know it was never. I thought it was "incredibly rarely."

I did shift them to the target the day before landing. I don't think a SF prep would hurt, and I'm 99% sure a target prep of 0 has zero effect, but who knows what randoms lurk in the dark recesses?

It was fun watching them creep every day, looking for DL. Wish I had tried multiple targets back in the very early days while the IJN was out amphib-bonusing. Maybe next time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


I hear what you'e saying, but you kind of have to go with the game as it is.

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ORIGINAL: Sabre21

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


I hear what you'e saying, but you kind of have to go with the game as it is.

I have no problem if some people choose to play this way, I know it is a game with the intent to have fun. Many people choose to implement house rules of one type or another and I have no problem with that either, I try and use as few as possible.

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I do have a couple questions though. I've read where players prep their units. What exactly does prepping involve? Is it simply loading them onboard ship with supplies or is there more to it than that?

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In the above situation, do facilities (ports, industry, airfields) get damaged due to land combat or do they have to be captured once the enemy is destroyed or retreated?

Can any size force, in this case a few squads, destroy the facilities in the hex?

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ORIGINAL: obvert

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ORIGINAL: Sabre21

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ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

From what it sounds like to me is that both a landing on the west coast of the US using the special fast TF's on the first turn or landing a suicide force into a Japanese location to do nothing more than trigger a game mechanic that would eat up tons of resources by activating emergency units and possibly destroy large numbers of factories are both extremely gamey and in my opinion would be a game ender. I wouldn't play someone if I thought that is a tactic they found acceptable. Fortunately by pbem partner is like minded and just as new to this as I am.

I reckon that's where HR's come in and what 2 players are comfortable with.

Noted.

We have no HRs. My opponent and I are completely comfortable with this. Apparently you are not familiar with the Doolittle Raid, another "impossible", "suicide" operation that nevertheless changed the course of the war.

We now return to our scheduled program.

And if you had read much on that particular mission, you would know that Halsey's TF was spotted 600 miles off shore by one of the thousands of small fishing boats that had been drafted into service and that the Japanese did in fact react, although wrongly, but did not activate a nationwide force of reserves. It is nice to have hindsight in knowing exactly where your opponent is and isn't so as to take advantage of a game mechanic whereby a regiment could destroy dozens of square miles of factories just by landing for a single day.

There was no way an invasion force could have secretly arrived off of either the Japanese or US coasts without alerting everyone after 7 Dec.

But again, as long as your opponent is fine with these type "tactics", then all is well.

I hear what you'e saying, but you kind of have to go with the game as it is. There is no half-way in this game sometimes. You get a hex, you destroy or capture what is in it, period. The same is true all over the map, and it's equal opportunity. No advantage for either side. Same would be true if the Japanese took Sydney for a day, even though it would be unlikely to impossible in reality that they could or would wipe a bunch of the industry immediately after the battle to take the hex.

Those 'fishing boats' are actually xAKL convertible to PBs in game. A number of the exact same boats that were there, down to the name, are available in game (Nagato Maru, Nitto Maru, etc). So if you want to approximate the Japanese pickets you have to convert them to PBs and put them there on the approaches, just like they did. There is no guarantee they would have seen three ships, but a pretty good chance, even if spread out, that they'd spot two CVs and a bunch of cruisers and DDs.

I do put them out there, but it involves taking them out of the escort role for which you are always short as Japan. It's all choices.

Here is a note about the actual ships that met the fleet and forced them to launch early. Note there was also an 'armed merchant cruiser,' which for japan could also have included search float planes, another possibility in game.

Halsey-Doolittle Raid: TF 16 (Vice Admiral William F. Halsey Jr.), formed around carriers Enterprise (CV-6) and Hornet (CV-8), approaches to within 650 miles of Japan. Discovery by Japanese guardboat No.23 Nitto Maru compels Vice Admiral Halsey to order Hornet to launch 16 USAAF B-25s (Lieutenant Colonel James H. Doolittle) earlier than planned.

SBDs (VB 3, VB 6) and F4Fs (VF 6) from Enterprise, meanwhile, attack Japanese guardboats ("picket" boats) encountered near TF 16, damaging armed merchant cruiser Awata Maru and guardboats Chokyu Maru, No.1 Iwate Maru, No.2 Asami Maru, Kaijin Maru, No.3 Chinyo Maru, Eikichi Maru, Kowa Maru, and No.26 Nanshin Maru. Guardboats No.23 Nitto Maru and Nagato Maru, also damaged by SBDs and F4Fs from Enterprise, are sunk by gunfire of light cruiser Nashville (CL-43) (see 19 April).

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/USN-Chron/USN-Chron-1942.html

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ORIGINAL: obvert

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ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

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ORIGINAL: obvert

Awesome you got there!

Just to note. You should have prepped fully for the base. Japan does not EVER get prep notices, moving troops notices or any other unit based notices. Only heavy signal traffic in spots.

Well played, good to see this effort come to fruition even if the base is not taken.

I didn't know it was never. I thought it was "incredibly rarely."

I did shift them to the target the day before landing. I don't think a SF prep would hurt, and I'm 99% sure a target prep of 0 has zero effect, but who knows what randoms lurk in the dark recesses?

It was fun watching them creep every day, looking for DL. Wish I had tried multiple targets back in the very early days while the IJN was out amphib-bonusing. Maybe next time.

With 100% prep they would have taken very few disabled troops against only a Japanese base force with 9 SNLF squads. You likely would have been able to take the base easily, but only if he has no armor to move to Utsonomiya in a day from Tokyo and no 2E to mob you to dust. Very unlikely there are no ready bombers in the HI right now. There is also usually some [R] armor on the HI at this point I think, so it might be a moot point.

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ORIGINAL: offenseman

What glorious fun! Bravo Moose for giving it a shot- Cadillac plan even.

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ORIGINAL: offenseman

You can prep anywhere and at any time. You gain one prep point per day so 100 days to 100% prep.

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ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Wendell Willkie just won the next presidential elections...

EDIT: Sorry not Willkie; Thomas Dewey

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ORIGINAL: Sabre21

I agree with you on Hr's, you have to be careful on what you use, but again it's what the players themselves choose.

I appreciate the help on the prepping question. Now I understand what the Set Future objective function pertains to. So from what I read, it can take quite some time to prep up. Can this be done on ship or while on the march, or does it have to be from a stationary position prior to loading or attacking?

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ORIGINAL: Alfred

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ORIGINAL: Sabre21

I agree with you on Hr's, you have to be careful on what you use, but again it's what the players themselves choose.

I appreciate the help on the prepping question. Now I understand what the Set Future objective function pertains to. So from what I read, it can take quite some time to prep up. Can this be done on ship or while on the march, or does it have to be from a stationary position prior to loading or attacking?

There is a lot more to it than just this. Read this thread from last month.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3545042&mpage=1&key=prep�

As to when, just look at the unit and whenever you can press the button you can set the objective.

Alfred

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ORIGINAL: Sabre21

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


I hear what you'e saying, but you kind of have to go with the game as it is.

I have no problem if some people choose to play this way, I know it is a game with the intent to have fun. Many people choose to implement house rules of one type or another and I have no problem with that either, I try and use as few as possible.

I do have a couple questions though. I've read where players prep their units. What exactly does prepping involve? Is it simply loading them onboard ship with supplies or is there more to it than that?

In the above situation, do facilities (ports, industry, airfields) get damaged due to land combat or do they have to be captured once the enemy is destroyed or retreated?

Can any size force, in this case a few squads, destroy the facilities in the hex?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


I hear what you'e saying, but you kind of have to go with the game as it is.

I have no problem if some people choose to play this way, I know it is a game with the intent to have fun. Many people choose to implement house rules of one type or another and I have no problem with that either, I try and use as few as possible.

I do have a couple questions though. I've read where players prep their units. What exactly does prepping involve? Is it simply loading them onboard ship with supplies or is there more to it than that?

In the above situation, do facilities (ports, industry, airfields) get damaged due to land combat or do they have to be captured once the enemy is destroyed or retreated?

Can any size force, in this case a few squads, destroy the facilities in the hex?

Already answered in my posts #11, 17 and 30 of this thread. They also point out why Bullwinkle's move is not gamey in the least. It is a proper, real world military response to unsound real world military dispositions.

Alfred

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ORIGINAL: Sabre21

Alfred

While your are here...where can I find your supply 101 at? Is it still relevant with the current patches? I have your ship repair 101, are there any other 101's that would be good to read?

Thanks

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ORIGINAL: offenseman

IMHO that OP was very well planned and executed. It was a near thing to be sure and almost came close to doing huge damage in comparison to what was lost. Well done and well intended.

I redeployed Home Island disposition starting on turn one in my latest game and am glad I did so even though I never though that it would be as defense in case of an incursion like this. I may increase my fishing boat patrols though- I've converted all that I can of the low endurance boats. The increased fuel usage doesn't make me happy though. Perhaps a Goldilocks response in terms of the fishing boats too.