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New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/24/2014 1:29:39 AM

rkr1958

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Hi, I'm new to (M)WiF and decided to start this thread for basic (probably stupid) questions that I have as I go through the tutorials and begin play (hopefully in a week or two). Here's my first question. In the screen cap below what is it that tells me the two Soviet units in the last row, and outlined in blue, are winterized? That is, how I can tell them from elite Soviet units?

(By the way, I welcome any / all others to post questions here if they so wish).

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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 2/24/2014 2:31:09 AM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/24/2014 1:44:32 AM

rkr1958

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Oh, I think I just answered my own question by reviewing this post. elite USSR units = winterized units ... There is no difference between the two.

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 2/24/2014 2:45:05 AM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/24/2014 6:00:43 AM

AxelNL

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Oh, I think I just answered my own question by reviewing this post. elite USSR units = winterized units ... There is no difference between the two.

Correct

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/24/2014 6:55:13 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Oh, I think I just answered my own question by reviewing this post. elite USSR units = winterized units ... There is no difference between the two.

There was limited space for text in the picture and text tutorials, so there are a lot of places where one or two words are used which have extra meaning. The use of the word Elite here is one example. I would have preferred to be more eloquent in these descriptions but there was a trade-off between adding more pages versus being terse.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/24/2014 7:08:02 PM

celebrindal

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Personally i'd consider the Guard units to be elite, but that's a whole different subject ;-)

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/24/2014 10:49:07 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Oh, I think I just answered my own question by reviewing this post. elite USSR units = winterized units ... There is no difference between the two.

There was limited space for text in the picture and text tutorials, so there are a lot of places where one or two words are used which have extra meaning. The use of the word Elite here is one example. I would have preferred to be more eloquent in these descriptions but there was a trade-off between adding more pages versus being terse.

Steve, it's all good. I'm extremely impressed with your work and that of the folks that put all this together. I'm enjoying reading through the tutorials and find all of them well done and very informative. I look forward to reading through them and was sad when I had to go to bed last night. All day I've been looking forward to getting back to my good read.

The challenge for me will be to translate all this to game play. But; before I try I still have a number of the tutorials to go through.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/25/2014 12:36:11 AM

rkr1958

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I am correct in assuming that half-factors are rounded up during bad weather? That is, 5/2 = 2.5 rounded up to 3?

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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 2/25/2014 1:37:22 AM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/25/2014 2:15:15 AM

markb50k

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Yup it would round up

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/25/2014 2:47:53 AM

rkr1958

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Thanks! And now my next question. Let's say I chose a Land Action, which gives me 4 Air Missions. What exactly constitutes an air mission. For example, say I have 2 bombers escorted by two fighters attacking a hex. Is this a single mission, or two missions (bombing + fighter escort) or 4 missions (4 air units)?

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 2/25/2014 3:48:53 AM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/25/2014 3:35:27 AM

Cad908

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Thanks! And now my next question. Let's say I chose a Land Action, which gives me 4 Air Missions. What exactly constitutes an air mission. For example, say I have 2 bombers escorted by two fighters attacking a hex. Is this a single mission, or two missions (bombing + fighter escort) or 4 missions (4 air units)?

The bombers use 2 air missions and the fighters 0 (They are flying ESCORT) as per:

14.2 Aircraft missions Limits
Every major power (even an inactive one) that did not choose a pass action can fly any number of:
� escort,
� interception,
� combat air patrol,
� ground support, and
� naval air interception missions.

and

14.2.2 Bombers
An aircraft or carrier plane that flies any mission except combat air patrol, interception or escort, is called a
�bomber� (even if it is an ATR or a FTR). The relevant section of the rules explains how you conduct each bombing
mission.

-Rob

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/25/2014 6:28:17 PM

paulderynck

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Every aircraft you fly during your own impulse is an air mission, if they fly:
- Naval Air (i.e. fly out or return from sea) - either bombers or fighters
- Strategic bombing and they are a bomber
- Ground striking and they are a bomber
- All rebases by bombers and fighters (but CVPs in the same hex or sea box section are free)

Ground Support by bombers; all CAP, escort and interception by fighters, and reacting out to sea (either bombers or fighters) if your opponent searches during Opponents Naval Combat - these are all free.

Sometimes you can fly CAP with a fighter simply to allow it to rebase, but then it will be disorganized for the rest of the turn.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/26/2014 1:01:16 AM

rkr1958

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Thanks a bunch guys!

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/28/2014 10:08:00 PM

rkr1958

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Say I scrap a given unit type. Would units of that type still on the map be destroyed?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/28/2014 10:51:25 PM

paulderynck

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No, scrapping is per unit. You can't actually scrap a "type". Normally the older, crappy planes are the ones scrapped the most. Some older land units may get scrapped later in the game because FREX who wants to pay 3 bucks to get a 3 factor infantry when the average of all the others in the pool is 5 or more?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 2/28/2014 11:35:49 PM

joshuamnave

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Some older naval units are also often scrapped, either before buying them or when they are sunk. Italy starts with a slow cruiser (the San Giorgio, iirc) that I always take as their first naval loss and immediately scrap it. Generally I scrap the Japanese 4-3 CVL's because if I know I won't build out the forcepool of CVL's, so I would rather make sure I get the 4-4's if I build them at all. Transports are often scrapped for similar reasons. And I tend to wield a pretty heavy blade when it comes to scrapping US infantry and motorized. The stuff you can scrap at the start of 1940 and 1941 is all pretty bad.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/1/2014 12:03:52 PM

Extraneous

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The "Old" aircraft can be returned to the "Air unit availability pool" and their pilots to the "Pilot pool". This would make their pilots available to be used to fly other types of aircraft.

Since you get to assign pilots to available air units the "Old" aircraft could then remain in mothballs in the "Air unit availability pool".

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/1/2014 12:37:19 PM

rkr1958

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Thanks again everyone! I'm almost through all the tutorials. I have half on the last video one left (production, etc.) and 2 or 3 of the interactive ones left. I'm finding that the interactive ones help me learn the basic mechanics of the game (moving units, manipulating the maps, finding tables, dealing with forms, etc.); but I find the video tutorials very helpful in gaining insight to the rules of this game. I'm no means new to wargaming (AH France 1940 back in 1972 was my first) or to WW-2 strategic games (AH 3rd Reich, VITP, Hitler's War and Slitherine's CEaW GS); but WiF is a totally different animal.

I'm impressed by the breath, depth and scope of the game. I hope to start my first game this weekend (or early next week) after I finish off the rest of the tutorials and I have no doubt that this first game, in fact my first few games, will be nothing but a train wreck. But; I look forward to the challenge and the day I learn the rules and mechanics of this game to play it at a reasonable level of competence. I know'll I'll have many more questions as I progress on this WiF journey. I hope my questions evolve to reflect a better understanding by me of this game. And again, thanks to everybody in helping "this old dog learn a new trick".

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/1/2014 1:38:54 PM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/1/2014 2:24:57 PM

rkr1958

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I just thought of a follow up question to unit scrapping. It's a fundamental question about the force pool.

Are units in the force pool individual units or unit types?

For example, in a physical game like AH 3rd Reich there were physical counter and game (by year) limits on the total number of units in play at anyone time. In a computer game like CEaW GS there are no such limits. I can build as many units of a given type as I wish limited only by manpower and PP's.

Am I'm correct in inferring that WiF is the former? Since, MWiF is a faithful computer adaptation of the WiF boardgame then one is limited by the "physical" number of unit counters available? So, when I lose a unit and it goes back to the force pool (e.g., fighter) and I build a unit of that type it has an equal chance compared to all fighters I have available in the force pool of appearing? And if that unit is a poorer one, I would want to scrap it so I would increase my odds of getting a more modern (i.e., better) unit?

Also, can I scap units in the force pool, only those in play or both?

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/1/2014 3:27:38 PM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/1/2014 2:43:11 PM

Centuur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

I just thought of a follow up question to unit scrapping. It's a fundamental question about the force pool.

Are units in the force pool individual units or unit types?

For example, in a physical game like AH 3rd Reich there were physical counter and game (by year) limits on the total number of units in play at anyone time. In a computer game like CEaW GS there are no such limits. I can build as many units of a given type as I wish limited only by manpower and PP's.

Individual units.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Am I'm correct in inferring that WiF is the former? Since, MWiF is a faithful computer adaptation of the WiF boardgame then one is limited by the "physical" number of unit counters available? So, when I lose a unit and it goes back to the force pool (e.g., fighter) and I build a unit of that type it has an equal chance compared to all fighters I have available in the force pool of appearing? And if that unit is a poorer one, I would want to scrap it so I would increase my odds of getting a more modern (i.e., better) unit?

Yes, to all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Also, can I scap units in the force pool, only those in play or both?

Only those in the force pools or the ones in the destroyed pool. Units in production, in reserve pools or on the map can't be scrapped.

Units in the force pools can only be scrapped if it is obsolete (i.e. three or four years old, depending if the Major Power is at war or not).

< Message edited by Centuur -- 3/1/2014 3:45:35 PM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/1/2014 6:32:56 PM

joshuamnave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

I just thought of a follow up question to unit scrapping. It's a fundamental question about the force pool.

Are units in the force pool individual units or unit types?

For example, in a physical game like AH 3rd Reich there were physical counter and game (by year) limits on the total number of units in play at anyone time. In a computer game like CEaW GS there are no such limits. I can build as many units of a given type as I wish limited only by manpower and PP's.

Am I'm correct in inferring that WiF is the former? Since, MWiF is a faithful computer adaptation of the WiF boardgame then one is limited by the "physical" number of unit counters available? So, when I lose a unit and it goes back to the force pool (e.g., fighter) and I build a unit of that type it has an equal chance compared to all fighters I have available in the force pool of appearing? And if that unit is a poorer one, I would want to scrap it so I would increase my odds of getting a more modern (i.e., better) unit?

Also, can I scap units in the force pool, only those in play or both?

In A3R, units are (mostly) generic, and when you build a unit you know exactly what you're getting. In WiF, this is decidedly not the case. Your forcepool is stock limited (exception: unlimited breakdown optional rule, but once the bug is fixed, that doesn't affect unit production), so you can't build unlimited units. Units are separated in the force pool by type and when you build a unit, you build that type of unit. Which unit you actually build is luck of the draw. Frex - if you build a German Inf corps, you may end up with a 4-3 inf, or you might end up with a 7-4. Some unit types are further broken down by cost/build time. For example, your fighter pool is broken down into 2pt and 3pt fighters (assuming playing with pilots, else 4pt and 5pt). You choose which pool to draw from and pay the associated cost. Naval units are also broken down into CVs, CVLs, BBs and CAs.

But wait, there's more. WiF also uses gearing limits. What you build this turn sets the max builds for the following turns. If you build 2 infantry this turn, then your max infantry builds next turn will be 3. And now the units are grouped differently - for example, Infantry includes infantry corps, infantry divisions, motorized corps, motorized divisions, militia, territorials, warlords, paratroop corps, paratroop divisions, mountain corps, mountain divisions, marine corps and marine divisions (think I got 'em all...) So you choose to build 2 inf corps, 1 mar div, 1 mot div and a militia. You would draw those units from their respective pools, but your gearing would be 5 infantry type units.

Confused yet?

When you lose units, they go back into the force pool and have an equal chance of being drawn, yes. And yes, when you lose units, you have the option to scrap them rather than put them in the force pool IF they have a an availability year. That means that militia, for example, can't be scrapped. Neither can reserve units. But it's not always an automatic decision. More modern is not always equal to better, or they may not be enough better to get rid of the old. Some of the early German bombers are good enough to keep around the entire game. Some force pools are small enough that you don't want to scrap many, if any, units. Whether to scrap or not is a strategy discussion all on its own.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/2/2014 1:12:50 PM

Orm

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What happened to your avatar, rkr1958?

Edit: Never mind. It looks stunning.

< Message edited by Orm -- 3/2/2014 2:13:39 PM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/2/2014 1:38:24 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

What happened to your avatar, rkr1958?

Edit: Never mind. It looks stunning.

I messed up the first couple of upload attempts on my new avatar so you caught me in that transition. I do the same thing logging in. About 50% of the time it takes me 2, 3 or even 4 attempts to get that blasted security image correct.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/3/2014 12:20:28 AM

rkr1958

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I started my first game and I'm answering yes to everything. Two questions (so far). (1) In the screen cap below why can't the German 9-4 infantry and 9-6 armor corps in the flyout join in the attack on any of the 3 adjacent Russian units (4-3 inf, 3-1 arty or 2-1 inf)? Every time I try to drag them them over any of the 3 Soviet units I see the flyout for the Soviet units

(2) In the minor alignment phase I was given a choice to align Finland or Hungary. I chose Finland. The form went away after that. I also wanted to align Hungary. Did I miss my chance this phase or can I only align one country per phase?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/3/2014 1:11:53 AM

Dabrion

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1) These units are out of supply (correctly so), which is indicated by the yellow marker in the upper right. OOS land units may not attack (only defend).
2) You can only align one minor country per DOW step.

p.s.: reference for activity limits is 10.2.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/3/2014 1:44:23 AM

rkr1958

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Is it because the 9-4 inf and 9-6 armor can't trace supply? If so, I need to get use to units losing supply during a phase that they move. By the way I'm still on turn 1 of Barbarossa and have gotten 2 rain rolls out of 4 phases.

EDIT: I need to refresh my browser before I post ... I see my question was already answered.

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/3/2014 2:45:37 AM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/3/2014 4:20:57 AM

paulderynck

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You can't just dive into this game. You need to familiarize yourself with the rules. It's a complicated game, not an FPS. Answering "yes" to everything reminds me of the time Homer dumped the radioactive waste pond into the town water supply...

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/3/2014 7:45:06 AM

Joseignacio

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

I started my first game and I'm answering yes to everything. Two questions (so far). (1) In the screen cap below why can't the German 9-4 infantry and 9-6 armor corps in the flyout join in the attack on any of the 3 adjacent Russian units (4-3 inf, 3-1 arty or 2-1 inf)? Every time I try to drag them them over any of the 3 Soviet units I see the flyout for the Soviet units

(2) In the minor alignment phase I was given a choice to align Finland or Hungary. I chose Finland. The form went away after that. I also wanted to align Hungary. Did I miss my chance this phase or can I only align one country per phase?

Yes, you are missing sth.

, and yes, that sth. is that you can only align one country per phase. Although this phase is every impulse and not every turn, so it's pretty frequent (a turn consists of like 3 to 6 impulses average each side).

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 3/3/2014 8:47:02 AM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/3/2014 5:44:08 PM

Orm

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I think the time is right for you to dive into the game. But I recommend that you have RAC at hand when you go through the steps in the game. This way you can look at the rules for the different steps as you perform them on the computer.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/3/2014 10:34:31 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I think the time is right for you to dive into the game. But I recommend that you have RAC at hand when you go through the steps in the game. This way you can look at the rules for the different steps as you perform them on the computer.

What a wonderful suggestion! Will I get in trouble with Steve if I make notes in the margin of my textbook (uh ... "The Rules as Coded" hardback book)?

By the way, the font is perfect for old eyes like mine. Another WiF quality product! I just love the books.

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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/3/2014 11:37:39 PM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/4/2014 11:12:31 PM

rkr1958

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I'm in the setup of the Russians for the Barbarossa scenario. I noticed that the 2-1 arty, 3-5 cav and 4-1 arty (yellow box) were out of supply after I initial setup them up. By moving each 1 hex east they are now in supply. Why aren't they able to draw supply from Brest-Litovsk?