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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 5/22/2016 4:29:10 AM

paulderynck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Does a TRS have the ability to sink or force a CP to abort? In the Arabian Sea, as the CW player, I'm given the chance to try to initiate a naval combat. Would I ever want to do that just with a TRS?

A TRS can initiate a search if it is not disorganized. Not often done but if FREX you could react into the sea zone with a long range NAV, in lieu of getting anything else there; then there might be a rare occasion where you should have this in your bag of tricks.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 5/22/2016 4:31:44 AM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 5/22/2016 6:35:59 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Does a TRS have the ability to sink or force a CP to abort? In the Arabian Sea, as the CW player, I'm given the chance to try to initiate a naval combat. Would I ever want to do that just with a TRS?

A TRS can initiate a search if it is not disorganized. Not often done but if FREX you could react into the sea zone with a long range NAV, in lieu of getting anything else there; then there might be a rare occasion where you should have this in your bag of tricks.

Now that makes sense. So, one could use a lone TRS to try to initiate a combat and then fly in one or more air units into the sea area to fight the battle. Slick.

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Ronnie

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 5/22/2016 6:50:28 PM

rkr1958

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Is Sardinia included for calculating garrison ratios for Italian surrender?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 5/22/2016 7:31:52 PM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Is Sardinia included for calculating garrison ratios for Italian surrender?

No. Sardinia is not part of the Italian Home Country. Sicily is, but not Sardinia.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 5/22/2016 7:41:54 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Is Sardinia included for calculating garrison ratios for Italian surrender?

No. Sardinia is not part of the Italian Home Country. Sicily is, but not Sardinia.

Thanks. That's what I thought.

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Ronnie

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Post #: 665

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 5/25/2016 5:21:07 AM

rkr1958

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Italy is conquered by the US. Why is control of the hex directly east of Nice given to the USA?

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Ronnie

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 5/25/2016 6:16:57 AM

paulderynck

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ZoC cannot be contested by any other major power as per the conquest rules for control of hexes. And Vichy is classed as a major power.

quote:

Every one of its hexes occupied by a land or aircraft unit (most combat factors if more than one), or in the uncontested (by any other major power) ZoC of a land unit, becomes controlled by that unit�s controlling major power; unless already controlled by another major power on the same side. All other hexes in the home country become controlled by the conquering major power.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 5/25/2016 6:20:18 AM >

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Paul

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 5/26/2016 4:38:27 PM

rkr1958

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Thanks. Now another question. Is there any circumstances under which a unit placed during the reinforcement phase would be marked as moved during the first impulse of that same turn?

To see what I'm talking about check out http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4088286

There were about a half of dozen Soviet ground units "marked" as already having moved. I went in an manually changed their status back to unmoved so I could move them during the first impulse. Did I break some rule?

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Ronnie

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 5/26/2016 7:06:14 PM

paulderynck

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Nope, that looks like either a newly introduced bug or somehow a damaged save file.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 5/27/2016 6:07:49 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Nope, that looks like either a newly introduced bug or somehow a damaged save file.

Thanks.

Next question.

Germany collapsed Vichy last impulse. Syria and two units which were Vichy are now Free France. Free France is at war with all three axis powers. I'm unable to move the two "new" Free French units from Syria into Transjordan, which was conquered by Italy. Italy though was incompletely conquered last turn by the USA. My question is is it correct that I can't move the two Free French units in Syria into Transjordan?

Attachment (1)

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Ronnie

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 5/27/2016 6:31:39 PM

paulderynck

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As long as Trans-Jordan is axis controlled, you should be able to move Syrians into it. Looks like a cooperation bug.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 5/27/2016 7:48:18 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

As long as Trans-Jordan is axis controlled, you should be able to move Syrians into it. Looks like a cooperation bug.

OK, I'll report this in the tech forum then.

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Ronnie

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 5/27/2016 8:58:00 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

As long as Trans-Jordan is axis controlled, you should be able to move Syrians into it. Looks like a cooperation bug.

OK, I'll report this in the tech forum then.

New mind, not a bug. France and Italy weren't at war with each.

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Post #: 673

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/18/2016 11:55:59 PM

rkr1958

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During the end of turn activities, such as stay at sea and return to base, I see that the phasing player goes first followed by the non-phasing player. How is the phasing and non-phasing player for the end of turn determined?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/19/2016 12:57:00 AM

paulderynck

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My understanding is that it is decided by whoever was moving in the impulse that ended when the turn ended.

This has been changed in RAW8 - to the way we always played it without realizing RAW7 has it different! (and I think non-intuitive and less consistent). The new way is the player with the initiative goes first for Stay at Sea and first for RTB.

I honestly haven't noticed if MWiF is doing it per RAW7 or RAW8, I've just gone by the order they've come up.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/19/2016 3:22:57 AM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

My understanding is that it is decided by whoever was moving in the impulse that ended when the turn ended.

This has been changed in RAW8 - to the way we always played it without realizing RAW7 has it different! (and I think non-intuitive and less consistent). The new way is the player with the initiative goes first for Stay at Sea and first for RTB.

I honestly haven't noticed if MWiF is doing it per RAW7 or RAW8, I've just gone by the order they've come up.

I as the allies was moving when the turn ended. However, MWiF has the axis as the phasing player. The axis moved first and the allies last this turn. Does that have anything to do with it?

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/19/2016 6:22:55 AM

paulderynck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

My understanding is that it is decided by whoever was moving in the impulse that ended when the turn ended.

This has been changed in RAW8 - to the way we always played it without realizing RAW7 has it different! (and I think non-intuitive and less consistent). The new way is the player with the initiative goes first for Stay at Sea and first for RTB.

I honestly haven't noticed if MWiF is doing it per RAW7 or RAW8, I've just gone by the order they've come up.

I as the allies was moving when the turn ended. However, MWiF has the axis as the phasing player. The axis moved first and the allies last this turn. Does that have anything to do with it?

Assuming the Axis moved first because they had the initiative* - it then appears MWiF is doing this as per RAW8 not according to the "phasing player" definition.

*(normally that would be the case, but I suppose occasionally a player with the initiative might choose to move second)

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/20/2016 8:57:41 AM

Joseignacio

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RAW 7

quote:

13.4 Return to base
Units at sea can return to base during this step. If they do, they will be available to sail again in the next turn. Those that stay at sea will only be able to stay in the sea-box next turn or sail back to a port.
Units may return to base during naval movement, after aborting from combat and during this step. You return units to base like a normal naval move except in reverse.
Each unit returning to base is limited by its movement allowance (reduced for the sea-box section it is occupying) and by its range.
A unit must return to base during this step if it is:
� any unit (except convoy points) of a neutral major power; or
� a TRS with a cargo on board; or
� any unit (except convoy points) in the 0 section.
Any other of your units can return to base if you like. Convoy points can stay at sea even if they are in the 0 section. If they do return to base, they won�t be able to convoy resources in the production step of this turn.
Both sides (side with initiative first) must decide which units to return to base and which to keep at sea.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/20/2016 9:17:11 AM

Joseignacio

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Initiative has nothing to do with who is phasing at that moment. It's the one who won the initial roll and decided whether he would make the first move or his opponent.

Also from RAW 7:

quote:

6. Initiative Stage
In this stage you work out which side has the initiative. This affects who has the first impulse and who goes first in various other activities. Once you have the initiative, you keep it until this stage of next turn.
6.1 Determining initiative
Each side rolls a die. The space the marker occupies on the initiative track will give one side or the other a modifier (except in the middle space).
The side with the higher modified roll wins the initiative. If tied, the side that has the initiative from the previous turn loses.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/20/2016 6:02:40 PM

Centuur

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Which means that MWIF is coded correctly.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/21/2016 12:54:08 AM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Which means that MWIF is coded correctly.

Thanks guys! Yes, my opponent won the initiative and decided to move first. However, what I'm understanding is moving first has nothing to with it. It's the person who won the roll and got to decide to move first or not. Whether or not he moved first is irrelevant. Correct?

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Ronnie

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/21/2016 4:11:23 AM

paulderynck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

RAW 7

quote:

13.4 Return to base
Units at sea can return to base during this step. If they do, they will be available to sail again in the next turn. Those that stay at sea will only be able to stay in the sea-box next turn or sail back to a port.
Units may return to base during naval movement, after aborting from combat and during this step. You return units to base like a normal naval move except in reverse.
Each unit returning to base is limited by its movement allowance (reduced for the sea-box section it is occupying) and by its range.
A unit must return to base during this step if it is:
� any unit (except convoy points) of a neutral major power; or
� a TRS with a cargo on board; or
� any unit (except convoy points) in the 0 section.
Any other of your units can return to base if you like. Convoy points can stay at sea even if they are in the 0 section. If they do return to base, they won�t be able to convoy resources in the production step of this turn.
Both sides (side with initiative first) must decide which units to return to base and which to keep at sea.

And just a little bit further down from your quote in RAW7 is this gem:

quote:

After both sides make these decisions, units return to base (active side first).

Who's the active side? It's the phasing player. Who's the phasing player? It's the player that was moving in the impulse that preceded the turn ending.

It is this last quote that's been changed in RAW8 to be:

quote:

After both sides make these decisions, units return to base (side with initiative first).

Which is a good thing because then the two quotes become consistent.

In Ronnie's game, it appears the Axis was RTBing first and he interpreted that to mean they were the phasing player but what was really happening was that the Axis had the initiative. If the Allies moved last when the turn ended, then the Allies were the phasing player.

If the Axis had the initiative and were RTBing first then MWiF is coded per RAW8.

If the Allies moved last and were RTBing first then MWiF is coded per RAW7.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/21/2016 8:11:37 AM

Joseignacio

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OK, then it was clearly a mistake of the RAW7, one that wasn't even questioned for clarification in the FAQ.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/21/2016 12:40:51 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

RAW 7

quote:

13.4 Return to base
Units at sea can return to base during this step. If they do, they will be available to sail again in the next turn. Those that stay at sea will only be able to stay in the sea-box next turn or sail back to a port.
Units may return to base during naval movement, after aborting from combat and during this step. You return units to base like a normal naval move except in reverse.
Each unit returning to base is limited by its movement allowance (reduced for the sea-box section it is occupying) and by its range.
A unit must return to base during this step if it is:
� any unit (except convoy points) of a neutral major power; or
� a TRS with a cargo on board; or
� any unit (except convoy points) in the 0 section.
Any other of your units can return to base if you like. Convoy points can stay at sea even if they are in the 0 section. If they do return to base, they won�t be able to convoy resources in the production step of this turn.
Both sides (side with initiative first) must decide which units to return to base and which to keep at sea.

And just a little bit further down from your quote in RAW7 is this gem:

quote:

After both sides make these decisions, units return to base (active side first).

Who's the active side? It's the phasing player. Who's the phasing player? It's the player that was moving in the impulse that preceded the turn ending.

It is this last quote that's been changed in RAW8 to be:

quote:

After both sides make these decisions, units return to base (side with initiative first).

Which is a good thing because then the two quotes become consistent.

In Ronnie's game, it appears the Axis was RTBing first and he interpreted that to mean they were the phasing player but what was really happening was that the Axis had the initiative. If the Allies moved last when the turn ended, then the Allies were the phasing player.

If the Axis had the initiative and were RTBing first then MWiF is coded per RAW8.

If the Allies moved last and were RTBing first then MWiF is coded per RAW7.

OK, I'm really confusing everyone, especially myself. The situation was that Pat won the roll for the initiative and elected to move first. The turn ended on my impulse. However, during RTB (and stay at sea), MWiF had Pat go first.

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 10/21/2016 12:41:18 PM >

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/21/2016 2:00:18 PM

Dabrion

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Should be initiative side first for rtb decisions. It reads "active side" in RAW7, but there is no active side in E. END OF TURN STAGE. It was changed in this way in RAW8.

active side: the side whose impulse it is
initiative side: the side which won the initiative roll (even if they let the other side have the first impulse)

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/21/2016 9:57:49 PM

paulderynck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

OK, then it was clearly a mistake of the RAW7, one that wasn't even questioned for clarification in the FAQ.

I recently started playing a new RAW7 Vassal game with some gentlemen who had been playing together awhile and I was surprised when they checked who had been active when it got to RTBing - because my local group and I had always played it as initiative first for both stay-at-sea and RTB. But when they point you to the place in the rules where it precisely supports what they are doing, then claiming it's an oversight or a typo really doesn't trump the written rule. No doubt many others play it as written.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/22/2016 8:33:51 PM

IBender

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I am not understanding convoys unfortunately. I get the basic idea that they move resources from a location back to the USA for example for production, but if I am the usa, how do I know where to put convoys? How many into each zone? I am reading an AAR where the guy put all of convoys for usa in the pacific and 0 in the atlantic. If someone would try and explain this in simple terms while I read the manual again that would be awesome!

Thanks

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/22/2016 9:29:21 PM

Orm

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US convoy placement is fairly easy. CW, Japan, and France are the trickier countries. With CW as the toughest ones. There is a thread on the forum that suggests different initial convoy placements for the AIO if you are interested. I think there is a short comment for each of the variants.

But if you want to delve into it for USA I will try to explain it.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/22/2016 9:32:10 PM

Orm

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First I recommend that you read 5.1 Trade agreements in Rules as coded. It explains the initial aspects of the special trade between Japan and USA.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 10/22/2016 9:39:47 PM

Orm

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If you click on info and then trade agreements you get the information shown in the picture. There you will see that USA is involved in three trade deals. Two with Japan and one with Venezuela.�

Major powers, like USA, always need to provide the transport for the resources from a minor country that you intend to use. Since Venezuela trade 3 oil you need 1 convoy point per oil in each sea area between Venezuela and USA. Fortunately it is only one sea area so in that sea area you need to place three convoy points.