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OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/13/2014 5:48:17 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
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From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		"The satellite imagery company ************, which owns an advanced constellation of commercial satellites, is encouraging citizens to comb through satellite images in response to the disappearance of the plane.

******* today activated its crowdsourcing platform in an effort to locate the Boeing 777 jetliner that mysteriously disappeared on Saturday while in flight from Malaysia to Beijing. If you would like to volunteer your time to support the rescue mission, please visit ******* Tomnod platform to begin combing through satellite imagery for clues that may help locate the missing aircraft"

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014

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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/13/2014 11:04:39 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		Two things really trouble me about this incident. First it is pretty obvious now that this wasn’t a non-intentional act. Second if it is terror related the terrorists now have the ability to deliver a very large payload up to 4000+ miles radius from wherever they stashed the aircraft. Imagine a dirty bomb or worse an actual nuclear device, the potential for real disaster looms heavy.

Jim


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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/14/2014 9:57:49 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I'd like to know what you base those assumptions on, fact-wise.

No, wait a minute, actually I don't.

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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/14/2014 10:17:23 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		The jet's size and weight limit where it can land. It can stop in 5,000 feet, but most runways of that length would buckle under its weight. Taxiways at those small airports aren't wide enough for its landing gear...options for a jet that big are limited....

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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/14/2014 11:41:55 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		Someone went to a lot of trouble and planning to take the aircraft, I can’t imagine they wouldn’t have already had a runway in mind when they took it.

If it is a terrorist hijacking, the one thing really puzzling is no one called out on a cell phone from the plane. Even if you had 10 guys watching the passengers, the plane is so big someone would have gotten a call out. That could mean the passengers were somehow rendered unconscious perhaps with gas?

With the current data showing the plane was in the air for a good 4 hours after the transponder was turned off, I think it’s pretty safe to say this is an intentional act. The engines get pinged by satellites periodically. It isn’t something that tracks the plane, the satellite is simply checking to see if a connection for data transfer exists, and the data showed it did exist for 4+ hours after the plane vanished, so the engines were running for that period of time. The WSJ reporter who broke the story on this also seemed to indicate the data showed the plane was at a normal cruising altitude during the 4+ hour time period.

Jim


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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/14/2014 11:53:26 PM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Someone went to a lot of trouble and planning to take the aircraft, I can’t imagine they wouldn’t have already had a runway in mind when they took it.



You're assuming someone took it. Who? Motive? Where would it land? This isn't a drug runner's Cessna you can land on almost any grass strip carved out in the boondocks.

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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/14/2014 11:58:43 PM   
histgamer

 

Posts: 1455
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline 		Furthermore there's no evidence thus far even if it was hijacked that the plane was taken or rather didn't just crash at some point during the hijacking.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Someone went to a lot of trouble and planning to take the aircraft, I can’t imagine they wouldn’t have already had a runway in mind when they took it.



You're assuming someone took it. Who? Motive? Where would it land? This isn't a drug runner's Cessna you can land on almost any grass strip carved out in the boondocks.


(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 7
RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 12:56:56 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Anyone every read the paranoid delusional stuff from 911 truthers? Perhaps the Malaysian jet is where ever the 4 Jets, crew and passengers are from 9-11.

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Post #: 8
RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 1:21:42 AM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		I still think something akin to what happened to Payne Stewart could account for it. Like maybe after a collision of some sort - perhaps with a drone or other small craft.

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Post #: 9
RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 1:42:53 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		They were at 35000 feet how many drones or small craft can go that high?

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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 2:01:35 AM   
Gilmer


Posts: 1452
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Status: offline 		I just chalk it up to a weird incident. It will probably turn up.

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Post #: 11
RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 2:19:01 AM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1897
Joined: 8/12/2000
From: Louisiana, USA
Status: offline 		I think the evidence is leading more and more toward a hijacking or at least a malicious act by the crew. I kept siding with an accident and immediate crash, but that seems less likely now. Looks like it most likely crashed in the Indian Ocean, though I'm not sure anything would surprise me at this point.

Either that or China is in contact with Romulans and testing a cloaking device.

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Post #: 12
RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 2:49:10 AM   
Aurelian

 

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Joined: 2/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JW

I think the evidence is leading more and more toward a hijacking or at least a malicious act by the crew. I kept siding with an accident and immediate crash, but that seems less likely now. Looks like it most likely crashed in the Indian Ocean, though I'm not sure anything would surprise me at this point.

Either that or China is in contact with Romulans and testing a cloaking device.



Hold on just one minute........

The Klingons have those too you know.

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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 4:02:42 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
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Status: offline 		I think they landed on Fantasy Island.

"Da plane! Da plane, boss!"

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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 4:33:03 AM   
danlongman

 

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline 		I worked in aviation for 30+ years. The only thing I know is that every story I ever read about an aviation occurrence in the mainstream
press had one or more ridiculous errors in it. I mean stupid, stupid mistakes and misstatements made by people who did not even know what
they were saying was stupid. Like most people talking about climate issues. I have read nothing about this presumed crash except that the
aircraft disappeared. There have been many rumours which may or may not be true and lots of conflicting information most of which is mutually
exclusive because it has to be. Until I see a coherent report from a credible source most is simply idle speculation.

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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 4:34:09 AM   
z1812


Posts: 1796
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

I think they landed on Fantasy Island.

"Da plane! Da plane, boss!"


Apparently this is confirmed by Malaysian authorities.

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Post #: 16
RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 4:35:05 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

I think they landed on Fantasy Island.

"Da plane! Da plane, boss!"
warspite1




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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 4:37:56 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Someone went to a lot of trouble and planning to take the aircraft, I can’t imagine they wouldn’t have already had a runway in mind when they took it.


warspite1

You write like that is fact. Remember the Helios aircraft crash in 2005? There may be a simple - but tragic - reason for the loss of the plane. You may be right - but its just speculation at this point.


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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 4:42:56 AM   
danlongman

 

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline 		Here is a fairly straightforward article. Note the sparsity of non-speculative info:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/could-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-off-radar-153329828.html

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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 4:45:16 AM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

If it is a terrorist hijacking, the one thing really puzzling is no one called out on a cell phone from the plane. Even if you had 10 guys watching the passengers, the plane is so big someone would have gotten a call out. That could mean the passengers were somehow rendered unconscious perhaps with gas?


If the plane did in fact fly west over the Indian Ocean, that would be out of cell phone range for everyone who didn't have a satellite-enabled phone -- and there aren't many of those in private hands as yet. Remember that even in the U. S. there are places not covered by cell phone service.

My $.02 is that this is a hijacking that went wrong. One of the pilots may have been in on it, (transponders are not easy to shut off) and a struggle may have broken out with the other pilot or some of the passengers.

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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 5:16:02 AM   
danlongman

 

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline 		Here is some news: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/malaysia-confirms-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-was-hijacked/story-fni0xs63-1226855315871

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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 5:47:04 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		Wow, I deduce that this is a hijacking and not a crash based on reporting in the Wall Street Journal and I’m branded an alarmist or 911 truther… It’s not speculation unless the reporting is wrong, and the WSJ is not a paper that retracts stories very often if ever due to reporting falsehoods.

Now for some actual speculation I’ll answer the Who?/Motive? Question. I can think of four possibilities.

Terrorists/To give them an inter-continental delivery strike capability to create terror and death.

Putin/To give him a means to hit his enemies and assert plausible deniability for the act (i.e. blame terrorists). This is simply based on the timing of the event which coincides with the Ukraine crisis.

Jewel thieves or some other form of thief/Steal possible valuable cargo (if there is actually any cargo worth stealing, just a guess).

Suicidal crew member/To die in the news.

Now that’s some actual speculation.

Jim


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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 5:54:20 AM   
histgamer

 

Posts: 1455
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline 		Whose to say the hijacking didn't go wrong and they were trying to take it somewhere with a big runway and lots of publicity as most hijackers want? Seems more plausible than your first two options. The first two sound like a script from a jerry brockhimer film
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Wow, I deduce that this is a hijacking and not a crash based on reporting in the Wall Street Journal and I’m branded an alarmist or 911 truther… It’s not speculation unless the reporting is wrong, and the WSJ is not a paper that retracts stories very often if ever due to reporting falsehoods.

Now for some actual speculation I’ll answer the Who?/Motive? Question. I can think of four possibilities.

Terrorists/To give them an inter-continental delivery strike capability to create terror and death.

Putin/To give him a means to hit his enemies and assert plausible deniability for the act (i.e. blame terrorists). This is simply based on the timing of the event which coincides with the Ukraine crisis.

Jewel thieves or some other form of thief/Steal possible valuable cargo (if there is actually any cargo worth stealing, just a guess).

Suicidal crew member/To die in the news.

Now that’s some actual speculation.

Jim



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Post #: 23
RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 5:56:35 AM   
danlongman

 

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline 		It was the New Zealanders testing their new caffeine powered "energy" weapons.

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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 6:28:47 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Someone went to a lot of trouble and planning to take the aircraft, I can’t imagine they wouldn’t have already had a runway in mind when they took it.



You're assuming someone took it. Who? Motive? Where would it land? This isn't a drug runner's Cessna you can land on almost any grass strip carved out in the boondocks.


Doesn't have to be a paved landing field for it to land. Sure it would dig up the turf but land anywhere there is a field opening it could. I'd be searching islands in a 4hour radius from last reported in the air. Gilligan's island may be out there.

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 25
RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 7:15:55 AM   
histgamer

 

Posts: 1455
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline 		A plane that size and weight would likely snap its landing gear off in sand or grass or any other soft surface and would likely crash. Planes that size and more importantly weight are not pulling 1940s B-17 landings.

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Someone went to a lot of trouble and planning to take the aircraft, I can’t imagine they wouldn’t have already had a runway in mind when they took it.



You're assuming someone took it. Who? Motive? Where would it land? This isn't a drug runner's Cessna you can land on almost any grass strip carved out in the boondocks.


Doesn't have to be a paved landing field for it to land. Sure it would dig up the turf but land anywhere there is a field opening it could. I'd be searching islands in a 4hour radius from last reported in the air. Gilligan's island may be out there.



< Message edited by flanyboy -- 3/15/2014 8:16:16 AM >

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Post #: 26
RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 8:12:51 AM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline 		Even if the plane exploded or break apart high in the air, they should find some debris on the water, some of it is floatation. Now its possible that it has been hi-jacked, look like the pilot or group planned this all along. So no contact? Seem that they manage to collect all cellphones at the right time before disappeared under the radar, in that case, they would have to fly very low altitude to avoid radar. There no telling where they went.

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RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 8:20:45 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Someone went to a lot of trouble and planning to take the aircraft, I can’t imagine they wouldn’t have already had a runway in mind when they took it.



You're assuming someone took it. Who? Motive? Where would it land? This isn't a drug runner's Cessna you can land on almost any grass strip carved out in the boondocks.


Doesn't have to be a paved landing field for it to land. Sure it would dig up the turf but land anywhere there is a field opening it could. I'd be searching islands in a 4hour radius from last reported in the air. Gilligan's island may be out there.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/brighammccown/2013/07/07/asiana-214-crashes-at-san-francisco-what-happened/ You mean like this?

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Post #: 28
RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 8:40:06 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Even if the plane exploded or break apart high in the air, they should find some debris on the water, some of it is floatation. Now its possible that it has been hi-jacked, look like the pilot or group planned this all along. So no contact? Seem that they manage to collect all cellphones at the right time before disappeared under the radar, in that case, they would have to fly very low altitude to avoid radar. There no telling where they went.


And if they're out of cell range?

As for flying at low altitude:

A 777's cruise altitude for best range performance varies from 30,000 at max weight, to about 43,000 at low weight...Fuel burn at cruise altitude is far less than at low altitude, and again, taking a moderately heavy weight airplane at normal cruise, a 777 burns about 8,000#/hr per engine, but that number drops to about 5,000#/hr per engine at low weights and optimum altitude.

In terms of nautical miles per pound of fuel, being at 5,000 feet gets you less than half the range of being at cruise. (this is a bit of an oversimplification, it depends on the airplane's weight, the temperature, and the airspeed flown, but it's close enough for our purposes here)...so, a 777 loaded with fuel for 4,000 miles likely can't go farther than 2,000 miles if flown at low altitude. Less if it was being flown at a high airspeed (which burns more fuel per mile).

There are so many variables, that I can only speak in generalities...but jet airplanes guzzle fuel when flown at low altitude. In fact, at idle, on the ground, they're often burning about half the fuel per minute that they burn when going 540 MPH in cruise...

That's from a 757/67 rated pilot on another forum

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Post #: 29
RE: OT: Plane Lost Malaysia - You can help - 3/15/2014 9:50:08 AM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Even if the plane exploded or break apart high in the air, they should find some debris on the water, some of it is floatation. Now its possible that it has been hi-jacked, look like the pilot or group planned this all along. So no contact? Seem that they manage to collect all cellphones at the right time before disappeared under the radar, in that case, they would have to fly very low altitude to avoid radar. There no telling where they went.


And if they're out of cell range?

As for flying at low altitude:

A 777's cruise altitude for best range performance varies from 30,000 at max weight, to about 43,000 at low weight...Fuel burn at cruise altitude is far less than at low altitude, and again, taking a moderately heavy weight airplane at normal cruise, a 777 burns about 8,000#/hr per engine, but that number drops to about 5,000#/hr per engine at low weights and optimum altitude.

In terms of nautical miles per pound of fuel, being at 5,000 feet gets you less than half the range of being at cruise. (this is a bit of an oversimplification, it depends on the airplane's weight, the temperature, and the airspeed flown, but it's close enough for our purposes here)...so, a 777 loaded with fuel for 4,000 miles likely can't go farther than 2,000 miles if flown at low altitude. Less if it was being flown at a high airspeed (which burns more fuel per mile).

There are so many variables, that I can only speak in generalities...but jet airplanes guzzle fuel when flown at low altitude. In fact, at idle, on the ground, they're often burning about half the fuel per minute that they burn when going 540 MPH in cruise...

That's from a 757/67 rated pilot on another forum


I agreed with you there too, like you said there are so many variables and possibilities.

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