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A Question for JFBs - Now Open to EHansen - 3/15/2014 7:51:40 PM

pws1225

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I'm in a PBEM as Japan and it's April 2, 1942. My allied opponent holds Palembang with approximately 25,000 troops some of which are probably British reinforcements. I have no idea what the fort level at Palembang is yet. I'm closing on Palembang from Oosthaven with 4 IDs and plan on circling around to come in from the north to avoid a mandatory shock attack. My intention, of course, is to capture Palembang with as little damage as possible to the oil/refinery facilities there. My question is what is the best way to accomplish this goal. Shock attack to minimize the time it takes to capture the place? Bombardments? Direct attacks? Any and all thoughts are welcome.

< Message edited by pws1225 -- 3/18/2014 1:08:20 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/15/2014 8:20:00 PM

pontiouspilot

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As you know, start with at least some bombardment to determine fort level and who's at home....even at the risk of oil facility damage. I doubt that fort level over 3. Any idea how they sit for supplies? Any sense at to whether they evacuated Singapore into Palembang? The Dutch troops will be at about 35% experience whereas the Brits/Aussies/Indians likely around 50% by now. Also, make sure you take tanks...very few AT weapons in Allied arsenal at this point. In fact I would start some bombardment even before taking the long route around to the north....you might find your recon are BSing you about strength.

(in reply to pws1225)

Post #: 2

RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/15/2014 9:37:30 PM

Miller

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Do not shock attack under any circumstances. It will ruin the oil and refineries.

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/15/2014 9:38:41 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

As you know, start with at least some bombardment to determine fort level and who's at home....even at the risk of oil facility damage. I doubt that fort level over 3. Any idea how they sit for supplies? Any sense at to whether they evacuated Singapore into Palembang? The Dutch troops will be at about 35% experience whereas the Brits/Aussies/Indians likely around 50% by now. Also, make sure you take tanks...very few AT weapons in Allied arsenal at this point. In fact I would start some bombardment even before taking the long route around to the north....you might find your recon are BSing you about strength.

Ugh. A big long reply of mine that got eaten by the forum Gods.

Pontiouspilot is on the right track here.

My big long reply centered around use of the "Fortress Palembang" exploit as Allies and early war counters as the Japanese. Summary: if your opponent doesn't foreswear using the supply production of Palembang's oil refineries to supply an army, then you've got to land very early on Java and Sumatra. Possibly even using your first turn 'magic movement'. I've sandboxed landing a division and a half on Sumatra and Java on turn one. It can be done.

Gamey response to a gamey approach, I know. But it's better than finding yourself in April 1942 against several well-supplied and entrenched Allied Divisions in the malarial fen of Palembang. But that's a story for another time.

See what you're dealing with-recon. Aerial bombardment of ground troops to disrupt the Allied units won't damage the oil fields. Avoid shock attack as that (anecdotally at least) increases facility damage. Don't attack until you're pretty sure you can take 'em out. Lots of failed 1:2 assaults will damage the oil fields too.

Good luck!

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/15/2014 9:42:15 PM

Gaspote

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Be sure to daily bomb the airfield to reduce supplies and stop build of fortifications, ground bomb to disrupt unit and reduce morale.
IMO try to have at least 3 bombers group of Ki21 everyday on ground attack coming from the closest as you can.
Build the airfield close to Palembang, I don't remember the name, get the much Ki51 you can and airfield attack every day.
Get some G3M and G4M to bomb port too. You will destroyed fuel but if think you don't capture it and it's better to save oil and refeneries.

The best case is to capture Palembang in a single day with deliberate attack. For a such objective, use paras the day of the attack too even if they shock attack because of the air dropping they will secure oil.

Although send the much units you can. If Singapore fall, send all the 25th Army to take it, if Java fall too, send the 16th Army and reach 100% preparation if you can wait so long or at least 80%.

If you want to reduce attack, don't use bombardment with ships, don't shock attack only deliberate attack.

Be sure to close all airfield at B17 range from Palembang too but I hope it's already the case.

< Message edited by Gaspote -- 3/15/2014 10:44:17 PM >

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/15/2014 9:43:16 PM

ny59giants

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Combat engineers and try some CA/CL bases Bombardment TFs on the turns of deliberate attacks. Don't want to do too many as they can damage facilities. However, you want the high disruption levels for his troop when you attack. Its a trade off here.

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/15/2014 10:10:28 PM

FeurerKrieg

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If it is April, you should have about 6-9 available ID's. Bring them all and hopefully you'll take the base on the first go. You'll still have a good six months to attain your other objectives with the early Japanese offensive divisions.

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Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/15/2014 10:12:42 PM

pws1225

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Thanks for the help guys. I had forgotten about using Paras and shore bombardment on the same turn as a land assault. I happen to have both close by and will make sure they are part of the operation. To Chickenboy: my gallant rat-bastard allied opponent sniffed out and sunk my early move on Palembang back in December. I lost an infantry rgt, SNLF, and support troops in that one. This is my plan B. There are no house rules on a "Fortress Palembang" strategy. If I was dumb enough not to capture it early, then it's my bad. But I agree with you: grab Palembang early and often.

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/15/2014 10:33:48 PM

pontiouspilot

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Be very careful of the sea bombardment....my experience is that it is damm hard on things like oil facilities. Also getting sea assets in and outa Palembang can be tough....a perfect spot for ambush by torp bts/DDs and it is the best place on map for defensive minefield!!

Also it will matter which game you are playing as to how easy getting the far flung dutch troops to Pbang will be. In DBB scenario there are more static dutchmen than in stock. Also, unless I'm imagining it , it takes MUCH longer to move the other Java Garrisons down to Pbang.

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Post #: 9

RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/15/2014 10:51:14 PM

Gaspote

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Although in my opinion the best way isn't to capture it early but to cut reinforcement.
In my PBEM, I captured Singkawang on turn 8 and use a lot of NLBA to bomb airfield and get air superiority with A6M2 then I bomb the port of Oosthaven and Benkoelen to be sure nothing come. The Ryujo was used to isolate Singapore and a cruisers taskforce ready to intercept any ships in the java sea.

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Post #: 10

RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/15/2014 10:53:29 PM

FeurerKrieg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

Although in my opinion the best way isn't to capture it early but to cut reinforcement.
In my PBEM, I captured Singkawang on turn 8 and use a lot of NLBA to bomb airfield and get air superiority with A6M2 then I bomb the port of Oosthaven and Benkoelen to be sure nothing come. The Ryujo was used to isolate Singapore and a cruisers taskforce ready to intercept any ships in the java sea.

+1 this

I grab Sink with a magic move and bring in Air HQ asap to put Nell/Betty all over the place. Really hard to move reinforcements into Palembang with those long range TBs flying.

I actually take Palembang nearly last because I'm afraid the Allies will bomb my oilfields once I capture the base.

_____________________________

Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/16/2014 8:00:34 AM

JocMeister

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Do not shock attack under any circumstances. It will ruin the oil and refineries.

+1

I managed to wipe out everything at Balikpapan in a single ill thought through shock attack. Both oil and refineries was completely wiped out.

(in reply to Miller)

Post #: 12

RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/16/2014 9:07:29 AM

Spidery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Be very careful of the sea bombardment....my experience is that it is damm hard on things like oil facilities. Also getting sea assets in and outa Palembang can be tough....a perfect spot for ambush by torp bts/DDs and it is the best place on map for defensive minefield!!

...

Agreed. Check the river for mines using an AMc first.

Rather than sea bombardment, you could load an SNLF company into a fast transport task force with as many CA and CL as you can find. Do an amphibious landing the day before the deliberate attack. The CA and CL will provide invasion support fire against the defending troops without risking damage to facilities.

(in reply to pontiouspilot)

Post #: 13

RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/16/2014 2:48:17 PM

dr.hal

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Remember Paul that B-17s only need a 5 size airfield for a full load attack and Java is a great airfield. Keep that in mind (if you will recall).

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/16/2014 2:48:32 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225
To Chickenboy: my gallant rat-bastard allied opponent sniffed out and sunk my early move on Palembang back in December. I lost an infantry rgt, SNLF, and support troops in that one. This is my plan B. There are no house rules on a "Fortress Palembang" strategy. If I was dumb enough not to capture it early, then it's my bad. But I agree with you: grab Palembang early and often.

Ah. So. That makes more sense then as to why you're in this quandry. Well, I'd load up the farm and bring everything you have to get this ASAP. Ground attack aircraft oughta help.

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/16/2014 6:47:10 PM

pws1225

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Ah. So. That makes more sense then as to why you're in this quandry. Well, I'd load up the farm and bring everything you have to get this ASAP. Ground attack aircraft oughta help.

I'm bringing everything on the farm except the chickens! I'll have paras, a stout CA/CL/DD invasion TF with a token NavGrd landing force, 5 IDs with 2 tank units, and 2 HQs in range (25th Army with the IDs and Southern Army at Singers). Prep will be around 50-60%. AC from Singers will be available as well. After the IDs and tanks move into the Palembang hex, I'll give all the aforementioned units their orders to attack the following day. Should be fun!

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/17/2014 2:30:16 AM

Xargun

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Palembang is the single most important attack in the game for the Japanese. You can do everything right and take the base with high destruction of facilities and you can do it wrong and get away easy. The worst part is alot of this is hidden and random so you can do everything right and the game can almost end with a bad die roll. I really think Palembang should have some special code for it - a bad roll here will really screw the japanese over like no other single event in the game.

(in reply to pws1225)

Post #: 17

RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/18/2014 12:09:15 PM

pws1225

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Palembang fell on the first attack! Thanks for the advice guys.

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/18/2014 1:06:20 PM

Lecivius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225

Palembang fell on the first attack! Thanks for the advice guys.

Did you bust up the place?

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/18/2014 1:12:13 PM

pws1225

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Not too badly. I'd say there's about 10% damage to the oil/refinery facilities.

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/18/2014 1:35:03 PM

EHansen

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I just want to point out that I have been wrongly accused of forming a "Fortress Palembang", you can see that all but one unit is a Dutch unit and the lone Indian unit is from Kuching. I was mostly interested in moving units with AA and engineers.

Defending units:
6th KNIL Regiment
So.Sumatra Garrison Battalion
Zuid KNIL Battalion
4th KNIL Landstorm Battalion
2/15 Punjab Battalion
Riouw KNIL Battalion
1st KNIL Landstorm Battalion
2nd KNIL Landstorm Battalion
West Borneo KNIL Bn /1
Den Passer Base Force
Palembang Base Force
1 ML-KNIL Aviation
Bintan Det. Base Force
ML-KNIL
North Borneo Base Force
ABDA
South Java Base Force
Mataram Base Force

< Message edited by EHansen -- 3/18/2014 2:37:07 PM >

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/18/2014 4:03:24 PM

czert2

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ehansen - well, what was point in making it enginer/aaa "fortress" when it lack round defence and can be captured by "horde of japs with bamboo sticks" ?

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/18/2014 4:13:49 PM

EHansen

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Shoot down aircraft? Disrupt the bomb runs? Build forts? Repair runway? I think that about covers it.

And it was not unprotected, there were 420+ AV of Dutch troops there. It was not a given that he would take
it in one turn. Paul did a good job in bombing, and bringing enough troops to do the job.

< Message edited by EHansen -- 3/18/2014 5:16:27 PM >

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/18/2014 4:21:36 PM

pws1225

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Hi Ezra - I guess I'm the one that originally brought up the possibility of Brits at Palembang. This possibility was predicated on a IJN sub spotting the AP Wakefield in the strait off Oosthaven early on. This AP starts the game in a TF at Capetown carrying a Brit Bde so I presumed that brigade was somewhere in the area. Also, with respect to Fortress Palembang, as a Japanese player, I see nothing wrong with it. Both sides know it can happen so it's the Japanese side's responsibility to grab the place early. Since I had failed on my first attempt, it seems reasonable that you might choose to reinforce Palembang. Anyway, that's how I see it.

Regards, Paul

(in reply to EHansen)

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/18/2014 4:41:30 PM

Numdydar

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Of course playing with the stacking limits map prevents this kind of nonesnse

. I really do not think I can ever play stock again

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/18/2014 4:46:55 PM

EHansen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Of course playing with the stacking limits map prevents this kind of nonesnse . I really do not think I can ever play stock again

We are playing with stacking limits.

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/18/2014 5:04:20 PM

pws1225

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Of course playing with the stacking limits map prevents this kind of nonesnse . I really do not think I can ever play stock again

+1

Stacking limits is the "new stock" as far as I'm concerned. It's one of the best enhancements to the game that I've found.

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/18/2014 5:17:52 PM

EHansen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225

Hi Ezra - I guess I'm the one that originally brought up the possibility of Brits at Palembang. This possibility was predicated on a IJN sub spotting the AP Wakefield in the strait off Oosthaven early on. This AP starts the game in a TF at Capetown carrying a Brit Bde so I presumed that brigade was somewhere in the area. Also, with respect to Fortress Palembang, as a Japanese player, I see nothing wrong with it. Both sides know it can happen so it's the Japanese side's responsibility to grab the place early. Since I had failed on my first attempt, it seems reasonable that you might choose to reinforce Palembang. Anyway, that's how I see it.

Regards, Paul

Cool, FoW raises its head. xAP Wakefield starts in TF 422, carrying a part of the 18th British Infantry Division. That TF went to India. After loading and disbanding, TF 181 was formed with Wakefield included and went via Cape Town - Balboa, to San Diego. It was never near the DEI, so you got a FoW sighting.

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/18/2014 6:57:45 PM

adsoul64

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Very sportsmanlike conduct of both you EHansen and Paul, nice to see. Not a surprise, furthermore, as far as I know Paul.

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RE: A Question for JFBs - No EHansen Please - 3/18/2014 9:21:23 PM

rustysi

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Nice guys, the kind of game and opponent that I'd like to have someday. Do what you can to enhance the base but nothing outrageous.

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